Early creosote - how dangerous?

[enchant]

Please don't beat me up for burning wet wood. I know it's wrong. This was not the plan. I bought two cords of green wood back in March, not expecting to have a wood stove this year. Things changed, I've got a stove, and it's cold outside. I've got about half a cord of very old seasoned oak that I'm mixing in with it, but wet wood is wet wood.

I'm getting half decent fires, but yesterday I disconnected my stove pipe to add a damper inline. While I had it apart, I could see that there is already a small buildup. Nothing thick, but the seeds have been planted. So my question is this... Is any amount of creosote dangerous? Can I still have a chimney fire with just a thin coating, or is the danger only after it develops a thicker coat? The chimney isn't terribly tall, so cleaning it myself might be an option. If it has any bearing on things, my stove is a Jotul F400.

Buying seasoned wood at this point isn't realistic. For one thing, I don't have room for it. For another, it's horrifically expensive now. I'm better off waiting for spring. It's unlikely that burning the expensive wood would make it cheaper than leaving the stove cold and cranking the furnace. But regardless, if someone delivered a cord for free, I'd probably have to store it in the spare bedroom.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[jharkin]

Nobody is gong to beat you up. We all went through it our first year.

Good call to not spend money on "seasoned". Not only is it expensive, its usually not actaully dry either. Just buy wood whatever time of year its cheapest and work on getting 2-3 years ahead for future seasons so you can dry it yourself.

In the meantime you can keep mixing in the dry you do have, and when that runs low see if you can find some old pallets or lumberyard scraps being thrown out to mix in.


As for the creosote - somebody with more experience can say but I think the rule of thumb was that over 1/4 inch of buildup is the danger zone. For this first season just plan to check it once a month and do a sweep mid season if you need to.

 

[jatoxico]

My 2 cents for what they are worth is I agree w/ the 1/4" thing but...it does matter the type of creosote you're making. If you have liquid (stage 3) then I would change my practices cause that stuff is hard if not impossible to sweep and is the most dangerous.

You can burn marginal wood. Just don't go crazy chasing burn times, let the stove have plenty of air to keep flue temps up and check your cap often, it's the canary of the system.

 

[enchant]

Thanks for the good advice. I won't be looking for long burn times this year, and nothing overnight. But on days like today, we really need it. It's not getting out of the teens where I am near Boston.

 

[branchburner]

Buying seasoned wood at this point isn't realistic. For one thing, I don't have room for it.

Not trying to give you hard time, but it seems this would also means you don't have any room for UNseasoned wood, either... which makes me wonder how you are going to get a few years ahead in your wood supply going forward. If you use most of the wood you now have and buy more green wood in spring, won't you be in the same situation NEXT December?

In addition to old pallets or lumberyard scraps, I made it through my early "woodless" winters with dry branch wood and dry pine that I managed to scrounge. Pine -- for free! -- can be plentiful, but finding some now that is seasoned and covered may be a challenge. I was lucky enough to have neighbors with a ton of standing-dead that was bone dry... a little light and punky, but burned great.

Here in NH, a ton of people sell seasoned pine as "camp wood" on craigslist for quite a discount from hardwood, as it is still largely (and falsely) considered unsuitable for wood stoves (and of course, it does contain far fewer BTUs per volume). But beware, if uncovered, it soaks up water like a sponge.

As long as you monitor your creosote and clean accordingly, you should be fine. The chimney fires that rage out of control are the ones that have ample fuel, meaning creosote buildup has raged out of control prior to ignition. Old-timers even do periodic on-purpose burns to "clean the pipe" but that is of course not recommended.

 

[Dobish]

just use more air and keep an eye on it! split what you have small and give it lots of airflow....

 

[branchburner]

split what you have small and give it lots of airflow....

Ya... criss-cross loosely, and top-cover only, unless it is raining/snowing sideways. Or better yet, keep it uncovered it altogether in dry, sunny weather like today and cover for the coming storm. It will keep drying as winter progresses.

 

[jetsam]

I burn wet wood all the time; expect less performance and inspect and sweep regularly. No sweat.

+1 for getting your hands on some pine. I took one (half dead) pine down this summer and the split wood is already dry enough to burst into flames as soon as it touches the coals in the stove.

 

[bcrtops]

Thanks for the good advice. I won't be looking for long burn times this year, and nothing overnight. But on days like today, we really need it. It's not getting out of the teens where I am near Boston.

Just be careful & check the chimney frequently.
We burned a creosote creating system for years -- cleaned chimney every month & never let it go over 2 months!
The old smoke dragon Fisher was only part of the problem. That horrible lousy triple wall air-cooled chimney they sold in the 70's was the real problem. It just ran too cool & always creosoted. Lots of chimney fires too -- nice thing about the Fisher was you closed the vents right down & the fire in the flue/chimney snuffed right out.

Repeat -- be careful!

 

[mstoelton]

you might want to look for some of the eco brick type material. It got me through my first two years and does not have the negatives of burning green wood. They can be a little expensive but they store easily and as long as you keep them dry you should be in good shape with them. My first year (2013) with a woodstove I used a powder that you throw into the fire to dry out the type 3 creosote. the powder is made by Rutland. It made cleaning out the pipe easier.

 

[enchant]

Not trying to give you hard time, but it seems this would also means you don't have any room for UNseasoned wood, either... which makes me wonder how you are going to get a few years ahead in your wood supply going forward. If you use most of the wood you now have and buy more green wood in spring, won't you be in the same situation NEXT December?

I won't be buying green wood. I'm going to have to buy it seasoned.

 

[yooper08]

Look for free pallets (don't get chemically treated ones) or get some bio bricks/compressed sawdust logs for this year to help out with the less-than-perfect wood you have now.

As for wood next year and since you have limited space, look for pine and ash, both will season quickly relative to species like oak. A lot of times, pine and ash can be seasoned over 1 spring-summer-fall. Those should make up your main stash, while you could have a smaller stash of things like oak for the coldest times of the year. Your strategy given your space is largely what seasons the shortest. The trade off is less BTUs in each load.

 

[enchant]

Thanks for the good intelligence! I'll talk to my firewood supplier and see if getting ash is something he could do for me. He's treated me well in the past, and I'd like to get it from him if I can.

 

[moresnow]

Just finished stocking my spare bedroom True story.

 

[bholler]

yes you can have a chimney fire with any ammout of ceosote. Yes even a small one can be dangerous if you do not have a proper setup. Obviously the less creosote you have the less fuel will be there for the fire so it will burn out faster but it can still be a problem. What is your chimney setup like?

 

[Sprinter]

Just keep in mind that the term "seasoned" has no real meaning. What is important is the actual moisture content. Make sure your supplier knows your requirements. 20% mc is best. I wouldn't go more than 25%.

If you can't get what you need with the cordwood, look into manufactured compressed wood products like Biobricks or similar. Not waxy products though like Duraflame.

What does that creosote look like? There are three basic stages of creosote: Stage one is the common soot stuff. Nearly everyone gets a little of that. Stage two is a black, crinkly, crunchy-like deposit. Loose and easy to clean out. Stage three starts out as an oozy, liquidy, sometimes drippy. That's the worse and you must correct that. It hardens pretty quick, though, and is very hard to remove. Bholler and other pros here may have more to say about it.

Be very wary of the quality of wood you get, regardless of your supplier's reputation. It's very much a buyer beware situation.

You really should get a moisture meter and check anything you get for yourself. Split open some of the splits you get and stick the pins in the middle. That will tell the tale.

 

[enchant]

What is your chimney setup like?

I'm not completely sure what you mean. It's a brand new masonary (brick) chimney with a stainless liner, if that answers your question.

 

[branchburner]

I'll talk to my firewood supplier and see if getting ash is something he could do for me. He's treated me well in the past, and I'd like to get it from him if I can.

If he can offer you "seasoned" wood, be sure to get specific on what that means to him. The devil is in the details. Many suppliers have stuff that may be cut and split for a year, but sitting in a massive pile that doesn't allow for full curing. Ideally, it would be a year or more in a single-row stack.

 

[Sprinter]

Ideally, it would be a year or more in a single-row stack.

Right. The problem is that almost never happens because it's expensive for them to handle it and store it that long. You may find it but be prepared to pay accordingly.

Like branchburner said, what we usually hear about here, even with large scale commercial operations, is that they pile it up after processing, but that will not dry it properly. It needs lots of air flow and time.

 

[bholler]

I'm not completely sure what you mean. It's a brand new masonary (brick) chimney with a stainless liner, if that answers your question.

Is the liner insulated and or does it have the required clearance from the outside of the masonry to any combustible surface? Does the crock pass thru a combustible wall if so how was that pass thru done?

 

[KD0AXS]

I won't be buying green wood. I'm going to have to buy it seasoned.

Problem is that it's nearly impossible to buy truly seasoned firewood. Everyone selling firewood claims their wood is "seasoned" but in reality it is far from seasoned.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

 

[bholler]

Problem is that it's nearly impossible to buy truly seasoned firewood. Everyone selling firewood claims their wood is "seasoned" but in reality it is far from seasoned.

Even kiln dried stuff often is not dry it has just been brought up to a high enough temp to kill any bugs so it can be shipped.

 

[enchant]

Is the liner insulated and or does it have the required clearance from the outside of the masonry to any combustible surface? Does the crock pass thru a combustible wall if so how was that pass thru done?

I'm sorry, I really don't have answers for most of those questions. The chimney was built by a mason who is VERY highly regarded by contractors in our area, and the work was inspected by a fairly strict town inspector. While he was building the chimney, the mason remarked repeatedly how this guy is often a huge PIA. The reason that I mention this is you mentioned "required clearance" and "pass thru a combustible wall". The work was done by a professional to code and not by some hack.

Answering several people concerned about how "seasoned" wood is that is delivered seasoned... Unless my firewood guy is in it for the long con, I believe him. The wood he's delivered has always been good. He's occasionally advised me not to buy now if I can avoid it because it'll be cheaper another time. So If I ask him the specifics on the seasoned wood, I trust he'll tell me the truth.

 

[bholler]

I'm sorry, I really don't have answers for most of those questions. The chimney was built by a mason who is VERY highly regarded by contractors in our area, and the work was inspected by a fairly strict town inspector. While he was building the chimney, the mason remarked repeatedly how this guy is often a huge PIA. The reason that I mention this is you mentioned "required clearance" and "pass thru a combustible wall". The work was done by a professional to code and not by some hack.

Yes but I have seen lots of work that was not right done by professionals even ones with good reputations. And most code inspectors don't even know the difference between an insulated liner and an un insulated one. Your may be done absolutely correct I dont know that is why I asked. Can you post a pic of the setup?

 

[enchant]

Can you post a pic of the setup?

I appreciate your wanting to help, but at this point, I think I have the information I was looking for.