EKO 25 in Living Space?

[Eric Johnson]

I'm helping a friend (boss, actually, so it matters) spec a new gasification system to replace his combo wood/oil unit that rotted out last week. He's on an oil backup for the rest of the winter, so we've got time to figure this out and he'll have about six cords of pretty dry wood left over to get through next winter with the new gasifier.

Anyway, I think an EKO 25 will be just about perfect for his setup in the basement. The interior chimney has plenty of draft--40+ feet of 7" stainless liner in a pretty cold climate. And it's a totally-gravity system, which you don't see too often, but I'm sure it will work, since the previous boiler did.

My main concern at this point is smoke in the house. I have an EKO 60 out in the barn, and it does generate some smoke when loading. But I don't really care. If I had it in the house, I'd be more diligent about ash removal, gasket condition and other maintenance, and I'd install some kind of exhaust hood and blower for loading.

I know a couple of people who do have EKO 25s in living space, and I think it works OK for them. Anybody want to offer any advice or observations? Price is a concern, so I think he wants to go with the relatively inexpensive EKO, so please don't recommend a lambda unit, Froeling or some such fancy gear.

 

[maple1]

This might sound a bit bias, but after reading some of what you said, that's not where it comes from.

I would also check out the boiler I have (Velodux 40). Sounds like the chimney is ideal for natural draft, and the induced natural draft will eliminate smoke spillage - as long as you don't open the fuel door with a load that's just starting to get going, and the bypass closed. Varms don't even have door gaskets - which is a firm indicator of that aspect. And the simplicity of the boiler would seem to match up with the simplicity of the gravity flow system.

The only caveat is it would require storage - so would likely be out if storage won't be used. Prices are on the Smokeless website for that consideration.

Having said all that - I had pretty good luck with a smoke hood I jimmied up, helping with smoke spillage with my old boiler. Made it out of a right angle ductwork fitting, added some flashing, ran it out out through 6" pipe with an inline duct fan through a nearby window opening. Sure wasn't pretty but it worked. I just turned the fan on before I opened the fire door. Pretty sure others here have done smoke hoods too, of various configurations.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I will check that out, Maple. The old boiler was a Marathon, which was also natural draft with an Ammark draft control. Worked great (I know because I used to own that house and used that same boiler for about 9 years before it rotted out and Joe replaced it with an identical unit--9 years ago).

 

[Fred61]

I have my 25 in my basement and I don't have a smoke problem. I have a strong draft although I've never measured it, the draw is obvious and I've never had a problem that indicated poor draft. When I light a new fire I rake residual charcoal over the nozzle, load the fire box about 3/4 full, direct propane torch flame up through nozzle for about a minute until I see a glow reflecting on the u blocks. Remove torch, close door and start fan. Gasification starts slow but who cares.
When checking firebox during a burn I simply open the flap and open the door without shutting off the blower fan. Sometimes the fire is so intense it continues to gasify through the nozzle with the door and bypass flap open.
If the boiler is in idle mode I open the flap and open the door very slowly in order for the smoke to turn around from the suction of the lower chamber and start up and out the bypass flap. Now and then I will get a small wisp of smoke if the fuel has a lot of unburned surface but I can time my visits so that won't happen.
I love having my boiler in my basement. I take advantage of system losses and I don't have to go out in a blizzard such as the one I'm viewing at this moment from my window.

 

[maple1]

I have my 25 in my basement and I don't have a smoke problem. I have a strong draft although I've never measured it, the draw is obvious and I've never had a problem that indicated poor draft. When I light a new fire I rake residual charcoal over the nozzle, load the fire box about 3/4 full, direct propane torch flame up through nozzle for about a minute until I see a glow reflecting on the u blocks. Remove torch, close door and start fan. Gasification starts slow but who cares.
When checking firebox during a burn I simply open the flap and open the door without shutting off the blower fan. Sometimes the fire is so intense it continues to gasify through the nozzle with the door and bypass flap open.
If the boiler is in idle mode I open the flap and open the door very slowly in order for the smoke to turn around from the suction of the lower chamber and start up and out the bypass flap. Now and then I will get a small wisp of smoke if the fuel has a lot of unburned surface but I can time my visits so that won't happen.
I love having my boiler in my basement. I take advantage of system losses and I don't have to go out in a blizzard such as the one I'm viewing at this moment from my window.

There ya go.

I know it's not for everyone, and likely depends on the basement - but I love having everything, including wood, down there also. I have to think that 40' chimney will help a lot with possible smoke spillage issues - and a smoke hood isn't really that big a deal if needed.

 

[Eric Johnson]

This is a pretty sweet setup. I miss it in some ways. It's great to be able to stoke the fire in your underwear.

 

[S.Whiplash]

One thing to consider with the chimney if not insulated is that the new gasifier's exhaust temp. will be about 350-400 degrees Fahrenheit compared to the 700-800 degrees the old boiler is pumping up the chimney. Possibly a condensation issue.

 

[Eric Johnson]

That's a good point. The chimney is interior and insulated, so I don't think condensation would be a problem. Would condensation be evident from the cleanout in the basement?

 

[Hydronics]

If he will not be installing storage then indoors is probably not the way to go. As you know, reloading an eko mid-burn can be pretty smoky. I believe a smoke hood would be necessary.
Sounds like the perfect application for a Garn Jr. assuming you can get it in the basement - although he's probably not willing to commit the cash.

 

[Fred61]

If he will not be installing storage then indoors is probably not the way to go. As you know, reloading an eko mid-burn can be pretty smoky. I believe a smoke hood would be necessary.
Sounds like the perfect application for a Garn Jr. assuming you can get it in the basement - although he's probably not willing to commit the cash.

That's a point I had not considered. My batch burn spares me from some reloads but with a 40 foot insulated chimney I don't think there will be much smoke rolling out on reload if he's careful and reloads at the correct times.

 

[maple1]

If the chimney is insulated & interior, I don't think there will be a condensation issue. I have 30' of insulated chimney, and my stack temps are most of the time not much more than 200c (internal, couple feet from the boiler exit). I have never seen any condensation - unless you count the odd icicle that forms when conditions are right (wrong?) on the outside of the chimney cap.

 

[Eric Johnson]

perfect application for a Garn Jr. assuming you can get it in the basement

I told you not to tell me that.

Oh, he could get it into the basement, all right. This house has a full cellar, accessible by a concrete ramp. The guy who built it, back in 1910, used to park his truck down there. Great for getting wood, boilers, etc. into the cellar.

 

[Hydronics]

I told you not to tell me that.

Oh, he could get it into the basement, all right. This house has a full cellar, accessible by a concrete ramp. The guy who built it, back in 1910, used to park his truck down there. Great for getting wood, boilers, etc. into the cellar.

Actually you said: "please don't recommend a lambda unit, Froeling or some such fancy gear"
I don't consider a Garn fancy - actually, that's one of the aspects I like about them: simplicity. Unfortunately they are expensive and require a good amount of space, that's why I also bought an EKO.
At times I wonder if it would have been worth the investment though.

 

[Eric Johnson]

The Garn is a fine piece of equipment, but as you point out, pretty pricey. The Jr. goes for more than $10K, and that's before you factor in the cost of a great big flat plate hx, insulation, installation and annual water treatment. True, it has the onboard storage, which is nice, but you can get into an EKO 60 for less than half that cost, and it will probably last just as long. A Mercedes isn't for everyone; nothing wrong with a Camry. My boss is thinking more along the lines of a Corolla. And, there's certainly nothing wrong with that, either.

 

[stee6043]

I wouldn't have my EKO anywhere other than my basement but I think you do need a plan for smoke and ash. I'm pretty diligent with my rig but I still have the occasional lapse in judgment on loading. A powered vent, in my opinion, is more of a must-have than storage. I run mine with a flex duct anytime I clean out ashes as well as during my suboptimal reloads.

 

[Fred61]

suboptimal

Word of the day

 

[huffdawg]

I have an EKO 40 and the last place i'd ever put would be in a living space. I never load mid burn. I always have smoke leaking out of it though. Getting the leaks fixed have been an ongoing problem ever since the first lighting.

 

[skfire]

Smoke, ash, fine tuning of air settings, vents/hoods,leaky gaskets, quirky part dealers, ....much cheaper????

No smoke, controlled ash, no leaky anything, no air setting adjustments, no vents/hoods needed, great dealer support...Froling...more expensive..Priceless.

Ok ..before you get set to smash ......I am just making a comical comparison....so lay off the hammers.

Scott

 

[Eric Johnson]

a comical comparison

Yeah, that's a real hoot.

 

[skfire]

Yeah, that's a real hoot.

I guess humor is like boilers...different strokes for different folks...my apologies if you were upset by it..didn't mean anything by it.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Not offended at all. Just bemused by what passes for humor these days.

 

[skfire]

Not offended at all. Just bemused by what passes for humor these days.

You are right...not funny..

In my view, putting a boiler in any Living space is a very serious discussion requiring much analysis and reflection.

I am in the business of life safety from Fire, so the extra monetary value attached to a product,especially a wood boiler... is a non issue when it comes down to choice between proven quality and performance of Eqpt.. Especially when there has been extensive testing documented and field results from very reputable sources.

Secondly, it all comes down to value
..time is also money, aggravation is also costly, being the only operator in a household is demanding..etc...

Having said al that, I once again apologize for mingling In your thread.


Scott

 

[rkusek]

I would recommend anyone installing a boiler put it in a separate small shed where you can hold 1-2 cords inside and stack/dry 2 yrs worth outside. No mess, insurance concerns, fire risk to family, etc. These aren't wood stoves that require tending several times a day. 2 to 3 times a day is what of us are doing.

 

[Mike Fromme]

I have my boiler in the basement. And 2-3x day I'm greatful that I don't have walk out to shed through sub zero temps and 3 feet of snow.

I don't see it as a risk to my family any more than an oil or gas boiler. But I did put the boilers in a contained room with 5/8" Sheetrock and sprinklers. Just in case.

 

[kopeck]

I would honestly look at one of the negative draft boiler (Tarm, Froling, Vigias).

Will my Tarm smoke if I open the door quickly while it's burning...yes but only a little bit and if I do it right not at all.

More money yes but a better design for in living space installs (IMHO).

K