Eko 25 install questions

[t4driller]

I'm currently hooking up my Eko 25 in parallel with my oil boiler. I'm doing it almost exactly how the diagram in the manual shows. I was wondering where is the best place to put the water fill line into the piping and should I put one for each boiler? Also, I have a couple swing check valves that I'm putting in, is it better to mount them vertical or horizontal? I was also thinking about putting in a small buffer tank maybe 50 or 75 gallons. Is this a good idea or not and where should I pipe it in at? any and all information is greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Nofossil]

Wow - when I did mine there wasn't any diagram in the manual. I don't know want reason why you'd need more than one fill - it's all one system. Each boiler should have it's own pressure relief valve, though. I'll defer to people with actual plumbing experience on the swing valve question, but I've had problems with backwards leakage on horizontal installations.

I don't know the current thoughts on small buffer tanks, but I can say that real storage (500 gallons or more) makes all the difference in the world in terms of comfort and convenience. I ran without storage for my first year and it worked, but I've had storage ever since and I'd never go back.

 

[t4driller]

Thanks no fossil . Where do you have your water coming in at cause it was coming in before the expansion tank when I had just the oil boiler. Where should I put some tees if I e vet can find room to put storage in. I would like to but I don't have much room at all. I can post s sketch of my setup if that helps

 

[Bob Rohr]

Thanks no fossil . Where do you have your water coming in at cause it was coming in before the expansion tank when I had just the oil boiler. Where should I put some tees if I e vet can find room to put storage in. I would like to but I don't have much room at all. I can post s sketch of my setup if that helps

Some good piping info here

http://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/coll_attach_file/idronics_10.pdf

Trade the swing checks for soft seat, low pop spring checks, Watts, Apollo and others have them.

Swing checks need a lot of flow to keep the gate wide open, a typical 3/4. needs about 11 gpm to flow wide open if not they can clatter. Also the long "stroke" can cause them to bang when the circ turns off. And they are not a tight sealing valve. Swing checks are great for sump and sewage pumps

It you add a buffer, you may want the gas boiler downstream, so you don't wait for the buffer to warm for gas fired heat.

A few good piping options below.

The fill valve should connect at the expansion tank tee into the system. This is the PONPC point of no pressure change, fill there and pump away from the expansion connection.

 

[t4driller]

Thank you bob!! Lots of good info in there.

 

[t4driller]

I work for a water well company and we have 1 1/4 inch spring check valves that go on our pumps. Would they be ok to use? I guess I would have to check the temperature rating on them.

 

[brant2000]

I work for a water well company and we have 1 1/4 inch spring check valves that go on our pumps. Would they be ok to use? I guess I would have to check the temperature rating on them.

I have a few of them in my system, and they've worked fine. They're all mounted horizontally, but I wouldn't expect any issues mounted vertically either.

 

[Bob Rohr]

I work for a water well company and we have 1 1/4 inch spring check valves that go on our pumps. Would they be ok to use? I guess I would have to check the temperature rating on them.

Two things to look for in a check valve to be used on hydronics. The "pop" pressure that is required to open the check. For hydronics usually a 1/2 psi. Remember a small hydronic circ may only provide a couple lbs delta P. Also the Cv of the valve, this is the gpm flow thru the valve with a 1 psi drop. Look at the submittal sheet above from Apollo to see how those numbers look on a hydronic type check.

If you pull the submittal for a swing check you will see a much higher cv. The problem with a high Cv if you operate with low flow rates, or variable speed circulators, the swing will not open completely.

The spring check above also has a soft seat, so it is noise free when the flow stops. It only opens 1/4 of an inch or so, and the spring closes it, not the pressure in the system. It also has a tapered cone, much friendlier to flow. This check is also called "bubble free" meaning 100% shut off.

A swing check requires back pressure to seal it off, that not what happens when a circ pump stops, there is no back pressure in a closed loop hydronic system, when the circ pump stops you have the static pressure the same on both sides of the check. Much different from a well, sump, or lift pump where the column of water above closes and seals the check.

No doubt swing checks are used and can do some duty in hydronics, but they are not the correct valve for the job. just saying

Look at the checks that are included in most hydronic circs now, same as the guts of the Apollo above, 1/2 lb. pop, tapered cone, soft seal, Neopryl brand.

Some brands of swing checks can be mounted in either position, not all, depends on the construction of the valve, and the application.

 

[t4driller]

Thank you for taking the time to clarify all of that for me.

 

[BoiledOver]

Thank you for taking the time to clarify all of that for me.

Just a heads up. If you are not aware, Bob "Hot Rod" Rohr is a top dog in the hydronics field. We are blessed to have such a man giving us free advice.

 

[t4driller]

I did not know that. It's people like him and everyone else that share there knowledge and experiences with everyone that make this a great site. I appreciate it more than you know.

I plan on following this diagram to install my boiler. It is the design out of the Eko manual. My question is, where the return line comes down should it go where my arrow is pointing instead of where it is? The circulator on the Eko boiler is supposed to run all the time, would it make more sense to have the return where I have the arrow, so that the water will flow through the boiler before going back into the zone? The way it is shown in the manual it seems like it wouldn't go through the boiler before it got pulled back into the zone. I have one zone with the CI registers. Does the ciculator on the Eko actually run all the time? Zeno n from new horizon said that you want it to run all the time. I know the way I have it when the oil boiler is on it would keep the Eko heated also. I also wanted to put temp / pressure gauges and some extra air vents in. Where would be a good place to put those?
Once again thank you

 

[t4driller]

I will also be placing shut off valves where the supply and return go to the house incase something happens, so I can just close those valves so I don't have to drain the whole house. I wad thinking of putting the air vents right under valves to make it easier to get the air out.

I had bought this boiler a year ago and thought I would be using it by now. Well to make a long story short. I hired a plumber to do it and all he did was cut up a bunch of my copper pipe and waste a bunch of fittings. Said he would be back the next day and asked if he could have the manuals to look over that night. I never heard or seen him again. Left all his tools and took my manuals. So this is why I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this. I've been reading this forum ever since then, trying to figure it out. [emoji45]

 

[Bob Rohr]

I will also be placing shut off valves where the supply and return go to the house incase something happens, so I can just close those valves so I don't have to drain the whole house. I wad thinking of putting the air vents right under valves to make it easier to get the air out.

I had bought this boiler a year ago and thought I would be using it by now. Well to make a long story short. I hired a plumber to do it and all he did was cut up a bunch of my copper pipe and waste a bunch of fittings. Said he would be back the next day and asked if he could have the manuals to look over that night. I never heard or seen him again. Left all his tools and took my manuals. So this is why I'm trying to wrap my head around all of this. I've been reading this forum ever since then, trying to figure it out.

That piping is what I consider series. My least favorite method UNLESS there is a reason that both boilers need to be kept hot? The EKO will keep the oil boiler hot, so energy loss up the flue and boiler jacketing.

When the oil boiler runs it will give up a portion of you oil dollars up the flue of the EKO. If the oil boiler has a tankless copper coil inserted into it then it needs to be hot to provide DHW. I'd much sooner add another method to produce DHW, personally, if that is the case.

What is parallel in that drawing is the way the heating loop connects into the series-ed boiler piping.

A few small details, the expansion tank should be on the suction side of the pump, not in the air scoop at the supply side of the boiler.

Unless the boilers can be valved off from one another there is no need for two expansion tank locations.

Read through pages 25-30 or the idronics 10 journal, maybe send the link to your plumber for some piping options.