engalnder 25-PDV - recesitation question?

[Don2222]

Hello

I picked up a dead Englander 25-PDV manufacturer's date 03/2005.

At 375 lbs it is a heavy one!!

So after seeing the heat fan settings of 6 - 6 the stove shut down with an E-2 and an E1 error.
See 1st and 2nd pics

Then I checked all the motors (Auger & Blower) with the AC test cord and they ran.

So I then jumped out the vacuum switch connected to the exhaust since E1 means exhaust air flow error. See 3rd pic

Sure enough, the stove went thru the startup cycle and ran for an hour or so.
See 4th pic

Then I noticed the slightly noisy bottom auger slowing down and not feeding many pellets until the fire almost went out. See 5th pic

Then I shut it down.

So doe this indicate the bottom auger may be failing or need lubrication? If so how?

Thanks

 

[Don2222]

Hello

Well I just figured out the E-2, and then E-1 error. The exhaust vacuum switch was hooked up wrong. The back was loose and a couple of screws missing so I knew someone was in there. I pulled the switch and tested it with the ohms meter on Rx1 ohm scale. It is a very versitile switch. It has 2 ports and 2 terminals. Originally the vacuum hose was on the posative pressure port and the electrical connection was on the + and - terminals. After testing with the meter, the clips should not be on both terminals!! That would never work and the vacuum hose should be on the negative pressure port. That is how it is on most other stoves so I tried it. Then I tested the switch with the clips on the + and c1 terminal. This closed the switch when sucking or Negative pressure was applied. The - and c1 terminals did the opposite (Opened the switch when neg pressure was applied). So I went with + and c1 with the neg vacuum port and put it back in the stove and fired it up. It works!!
Can anyone else verify this is true?

I just talked to Englander Tech Support
He said
Vacuum hose on gray port. (That is the neg pressure port)
Terminals on
1 - NO (Normally Open) that is the + term I used.
2 - C (Common) that is the C1 that I used.
So what I did was correct!


Also any suggestions on the bottom auger? (See 1st post)

 

[DexterDay]

Check to make sure it is aligned properly (search auger alignment for Englander) and there is not a lot of Carbon build up on the end of the auger and within the chute.

Also, removing the auger motors and cleaning (and maybe repacking with grease), along with lubing the bearings on the back, may be a good idea..

 

[Lorne41]

Don I agree x2 with DexterDay. I have the same stove and have had to replace the lower auger motor 3 times in 3 years. You can take the motor off, unscrew the mounting screws and take the gearbox off the motor and pull the gear case halves apart and repack the grease in the gearbox. This usually takes care of the problem ( temporarily) but the original motors are only rated for intermittent duty although they turn constantly and they get really hot. I've replaced the original Merkle Korrff auger motor with a Gleason Avery which is a far superior motor. The link to the best post on the pellet forum for these motors is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-auger-motor-failure-and-replacement.30454/

 

[Don2222]

Thanks you guys
Englander Tech Support said to pull the motor and brush out the carbon on the inside of the tube as well.

 

[Don2222]

Don I agree x2 with DexterDay. I have the same stove and have had to replace the lower auger motor 3 times in 3 years. You can take the motor off, unscrew the mounting screws and take the gearbox off the motor and pull the gear case halves apart and repack the grease in the gearbox. This usually takes care of the problem ( temporarily) but the original motors are only rated for intermittent duty although they turn constantly and they get really hot. I've replaced the original Merkle Korrff auger motor with a Gleason Avery which is a far superior motor. The link to the best post on the pellet forum for these motors is here:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-auger-motor-failure-and-replacement.30454/

Great post. Nice info!!

So are the right motors for bottom and top augers to order from GA (Gleason Avery) the CCW (Clockwise) 1.2 RPM motor for 83.99? You can specify CCW when ordering.
http://www.gleasonavery.com/catalog/pellet-corn-stove-motors.html
See pics below
Click to enlarge

 

[imacman]

Don, another idea is to swap the 2 auger motors. Give the bottom one a "rest".

Repacking the gearcase isn't a bad idea either.

Also, try putting a little 3 in 1 oil on the motor bearings. You can pull the top bearing right off and remove the armature...then drip some oil down into the lower bearing.

 

[imacman]

Great post. Nice info!!

So are the right motors for bottom and top augers to order from GA (Gleason Avery) the CW (Clockwise) 1.2 RPM motor for 83.99?......

Yes, the 1.2 rpm is correct. Double check the rotation in the stove itself. G-A is very good....if the rotation needs to be changed, they will do it for you before shipping if you ask.

 

[Don2222]

Don, another idea is to swap the 2 auger motors. Give the bottom one a "rest".

Repacking the gearcase isn't a bad idea either.

Also, try putting a little 3 in 1 oil on the motor bearings. You can pull the top bearing right off and remove the armature...then drip some oil down into the lower bearing.

Thanks imacman
The top auger just quit on me tonight. The bottom auger was a little better after brushing the chute but replacing them with better motors is quite a good idea!
Is that the motor I need? See my last post.

 

[imacman]

......Is that the motor I need?.....

Yes, stock # A901

 

[DexterDay]

Thanks imacman
The top auger just quit on me tonight. The bottom auger was a little better after brushing the chute but replacing them with better motors is quite a good idea!
Is that the motor I need? See my last post.

Did the auger quit working on you? Or did the stove hit its overtemp limit?

My PDV when I 1st got it, would shut down the top auger because it hit the Overtemp limit. Once I took the stove apart and cleaned everything and replaced the combustion blower, I had Zero shutdowns.

In an overfire situation. The stove stops the feed from the top auger. Just a thought. Have you put the auger on a "patch cord", since it "Quit" on you??

 

[Don2222]

Did the auger quit working on you? Or did the stove hit its overtemp limit?

My PDV when I 1st got it, would shut down the top auger because it hit the Overtemp limit. Once I took the stove apart and cleaned everything and replaced the combustion blower, I had Zero shutdowns.

In an overfire situation. The stove stops the feed from the top auger. Just a thought. Have you put the auger on a "patch cord", since it "Quit" on you??

Thanks Dexter for the info on overfire.
Let me explain quit. I wiggled the top auger motor from the back and it seemed like it was just stuck a little and I freed it up. So tomorrow I will remove the auger and clean the chute.

Unfortunately I was in the house at the time the stove shutdown and the top auger stopped feeding. There were NO errors on the control panel. Nothing!

So is there any other way I can tell if there was an over fire?

 

[Don2222]

Yes, stock # A901

Thanks Imacman

I will do more cleaning of the augers tomorrow but I do have some room for parts in this refurbish but I want to make sure I get the most bang for the buck. Both blowers seem like the originals too but so far they have been running good and not noisy.

 

[imacman]

..... I do have some room for parts in this refurbish but I want to make sure I get the most bang for the buck......

G-A augers are good quality, and not too expensive. More heavy duty too, have ball bearings in the gearcase, and thicker "stack" (more torque).

 

[DexterDay]

With no errors. I dont know. Its likely the augers need cleaned, lubed, and realigned. Thats for sure.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

Thanks Dexter for the info on overfire.
Let me explain quit. I wiggled the top auger motor from the back and it seemed like it was just stuck a little and I freed it up. So tomorrow I will remove the auger and clean the chute.

Unfortunately I was in the house at the time the stove shutdown and the top auger stopped feeding. There were NO errors on the control panel. Nothing!

So is there any other way I can tell if there was an over fire?

sounds like a drop chute jam, working the motor will most times clear this up , if not pull the LOWER auger to gain access to the chute work in and up at about a 45 degree angle to insert a screwdriver or similar up the drop chute to dislodge any long pelets which may have "stovepiped' in the chute

as for overfire the stove will drop an E-3 if the board is set in A mode, it will simply stop the top auger in c or d mode until the stove cools past the high limit. another thing to check is the door ajar vac switch port in the firebox area. if the port gets occluded with ash you could drop the switch when the stove heats up. this will not result in an error message either

 

[stoveguy2esw]

BTW, you guys rock, i didnt get to help at all with this OP's issues , as i read down either the Op or the rest of you guys systematically fixed everything.

 

[DexterDay]

BTW, you guys rock, i didnt get to help at all with this OP's issues , as i read down either the Op or the rest of you guys systematically fixed everything.

Gotta learn from someone

 

[imacman]

BTW, you guys rock, i didnt get to help at all with this OP's issues , as i read down either the Op or the rest of you guys systematically fixed everything.

Mike, we had a good teacher....thanks!

 

[Don2222]

sounds like a drop chute jam, working the motor will most times clear this up , if not pull the LOWER auger to gain access to the chute work in and up at about a 45 degree angle to insert a screwdriver or similar up the drop chute to dislodge any long pelets which may have "stovepiped' in the chute

as for overfire the stove will drop an E-3 if the board is set in A mode, it will simply stop the top auger in c or d mode until the stove cools past the high limit. another thing to check is the door ajar vac switch port in the firebox area. if the port gets occluded with ash you could drop the switch when the stove heats up. this will not result in an error message either

Thanks about that door ajar vacuum switch I see a vacuum switch in the bottom way up towards the front of the stove and I wondered what that was for!

I will check it out.

See diagram and pic below

NOTE: The "door ajar" vacuum switch port must be kept clean, or the top auger will cease to function.
Locate the port hole on the right wall of the burn chamber (you may remove the right louver to follow the
vacuum tube to locate the hole) and, with the stove unplugged and cooled down, use a brush or pipe
cleaner (not a vacuum) to keep this port clear of ash or other debris (see picture).

 

[Don2222]

BTW, you guys rock, i didnt get to help at all with this OP's issues , as i read down either the Op or the rest of you guys systematically fixed everything.

Hi Mike

I did call your Tech Support Line yesterday. The guy was nice and very helpful.

He said that the Air On Temp bottom button controlled what temperature the convection fan would turn on and the duration.

However he did not have the detailed info for each setting.

Do you have that information or know where can I get it?

Also what is the purpose or function of the front louvers?

Thanks

 

[Don2222]

sounds like a drop chute jam, working the motor will most times clear this up , if not pull the LOWER auger to gain access to the chute work in and up at about a 45 degree angle to insert a screwdriver or similar up the drop chute to dislodge any long pelets which may have "stovepiped' in the chute

as for overfire the stove will drop an E-3 if the board is set in A mode, it will simply stop the top auger in c or d mode until the stove cools past the high limit. another thing to check is the door ajar vac switch port in the firebox area. if the port gets occluded with ash you could drop the switch when the stove heats up. this will not result in an error message either

Hi Mike

I think you are correct about the drop chute jam problem. Since I just wiggled the top auger motor and it felt stuck and then freed up as I turned it.

I will take out the auger and inspect the chute and maybe spray some graphite spray in there.

Do you have any indications that as these auger motor's age, if this drop chute jam occurs more often?
I am trying to make a decision here on replacing the auger motors. I have a friend that may be purchasing this for his parents. So I want to make the stove as reliable as possible.

Also How can I see what program mode the control board is in? a,b,c,d ?

 

[smoke show]

Search, search, search Don. Heat mode settings have been discussed plenty of times.

 

[Don2222]

Search, search, search Don. Heat mode settings have been discussed plenty of times.

Hello Smoke Show

All I could find is this
3.....heat mode d only is recommended for the 25 PDVC because the air to fuel ratio is designed ,preset ,and regulated by the control board for that smaller sized stove. Mode c is reserved for larger stoves
3....heat mode c on a PDVC is definitely hotter , eats more pellets but produces a richer burn (noticeably dirtier) because the air ratio cannot be increased as it is already maxed out. Max combustion air was designed for d mode.

From Thread
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-myths-facts-revealed.46757/#post-586660

I am working with an unknown stove here and since the vacuum switch was connected improperly I want to see what the program mode is set to. This way I can assure the correct setting and adjust the stove using the correct baseline.

Can you tell me how to see what the program mode is or do you have a link that does?

 

[smoke show]

Hello Smoke Show

All I could find is this
3.....heat mode d only is recommended for the 25 PDVC because the air to fuel ratio is designed ,preset ,and regulated by the control board for that smaller sized stove. Mode c is reserved for larger stoves
3....heat mode c on a PDVC is definitely hotter , eats more pellets but produces a richer burn (noticeably dirtier) because the air ratio cannot be increased as it is already maxed out. Max combustion air was designed for d mode.

From Thread
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-myths-facts-revealed.46757/#post-586660

I am working with an unknown stove here and since the vacuum switch was connected improperly I want to see what the program mode is set to. This way I can assure the correct setting and adjust the stove using the correct baseline.

Can you tell me how to see what the program mode is or do you have a link that does?

start here- https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/englander-25-pdvc-settings.76453/#post-76453