England Pellet/Stove burner auger stops after running for 30 mins!

[kmkm911]

We have an England corn stove model 10cdv that is about 4 years old. We recieved it from our inlaws and it had never been used. It had been sitting in a heated/airconditioned storage for the last 4 years. We have tried to get it to work a dozen times and have been on the phone with England Stove Works half a dozen times trying to get the burner to work. England has not told us much except we need to buy all replacement parts and we are not willing to pay that much money to replace every part in a "new" burner. Here is what is happening and I hope we can get some advice because there is a big winter storm coming tonight!

The burner will go into start-up mode just fine. Everything seems to work properly and the auger is running great. The start-up mode lasts about 20 mins and we have a great orange/red fire going. Then about 20 mins after start-up mode is done the auger just stops feeding and the fire obviously goes out due to no fuel. While on the phone with England stove works they had me test the control panel...everything is hooked up correctly and working....they had me override the heat sensor...turn off the vacum switch....override the vacum switch....and the same thing happens everytime. The auger just stops working after about 20 mins. I have read that the flame should look like a "blow torch" and it is not. The flame to me looks "lazy" and red/orange. Please help!! I really want to get this working and can't seem to figure out what else to troubleshoot!

Thanks in advance!

Also, I have made sure that the pellets are not bridging...there is not a jam in the auger and after the auger stops working I do not hear the motor trying to run at all.

 

[imacman]

So you're saying that the stove is BRAND NEW and has NEVER had even 1 kernel of corn or anything else through it??

OH, also, does it stop after 30 minutes, or 20 minutes...I'm confused.

 

[kmkm911]

When we recieved it about a month ago it was still packaged in its original box. The stove had never been used. My inlaws purchased it 4 years ago and abruptly had to move and were unable to install it into their new house. They finally decided to give it to us. So it has not had anything go through it until we got it and tried to start it.

 

[imacman]

OK, flame does not have to be a "blowtorch" per se, but should be a nice yellow/orange....a little blue at the base of the flame is good too.

Oh, BTW, you ARE burning corn, correct?

Usually, the auger will stop running when the vacuum switch doesn't sense any from the combustion blower.

What does "turn off the vacuum switch" mean....you didn't just unhook the wires did you? To bypass it, you need to just unplug the wires from it and connect them together.

Just a gut feeing I have is that from sitting for so long, something is either corroded, rusted, or dried out. Have you checked the door gasket w/ "the dollar bill test"?

 

[kmkm911]

Thanks for your reply!

The flame is red/orange with absolutley no blue anywhere. We have tried corn and pellets to no avail with either. I guess "turn off vacum switch" was misleading. Sorry about that. Yes, the rep at England had me connect both of the vacum switch wires. I did not just unhook it. However, I have noticed that in order to get a good seal on the door we really have to turn the handle pretty hard AND the ash tray at the bottom has a terrible seal and does not seem to be very tight. I have not tried the dollar bill test (I'm a female and really dont know what that means!! LOL) Also, forgot to mention that before we started the unit we cleaned it very very well. I havn't really looked at it for any rust or corrosion and I'm not sure what to look at either.

 

[imacman]

If the door seal is leaking, it may be contributing to the low vacuum and poor flame.

The dollar bill test is just taking a dollar (or other similar piece of paper), opening the door, and closing the door on it at various different places along the gasket. If the seal is good, it should be difficult to pull the paper out.

If the paper slides out fairly easily, the door may need to be adjusted, or the gasket is worn/compressed. This is just a "shot in the dark", but needs to be ruled out as a possible cause.

Also, there should be ash trap "doors" inside the firebox....make sure these are closed completely. If there is an ash pan on the unit, make sure it is closed completely.

Last thing I can think of right now is the exhaust venting set-up you have....can you describe the size of the pipe (3" or 4"?),lengths of pipe, elbows, how many, etc, etc. Pics of the set-up are even better.

OOPS...just realized you did say there was an ash pan. If that has gaskets on the inside edge, they MUST seal against the stove to form a good seal.

 

[kmkm911]

Ok, we checked the door with the dollar bill test and the door is sealed good. However, we did the dollar bill test on the ash pan and one of the sides is very loose. We are tightening it right now. We are going to take pictures of the exhaust set up and post them. Also, I completely forgot to mention that this burner is in our basement. The exhaust pipe is 3 inch and changes to 6 inch going up out of the roof. There is a what my husband called a "clean out T" and an one 90 degree elbow. Also, we couldn't find any "doors" in the firebox to the ash pan. I'm not sure what to look for but there are 3 holes that go from the firebox to the ash pan.

 

[imacman]

This is directly from the owners manual for that stove:

"Ash Pan
NOTE: The ash pan must be latched when the unit is in operation. NEVER operate the unit with
the ash pan out! This unit has an ash pan for more convenient and hassle-free cleaning; to open,
simply pull the handles and rotate them down, then pull the ash pan forward.
Note also that there are two access panels (one on each side) inside the unit in the bottom; to put ashes into the ash pan,
remove the panels and push the ashes into the ash pan and then replace them, making sure that the
area under these plates are clear before replacing them. As noted below, the unit should be off and
cooled before any ash maintenance."

 

[kmkm911]

Ok...that does make sense now. I will look at that....I think they are open. Im assuming that would make a huge difference? Im still trying to get my husband to get the pictures taken. Thanks

 

[imacman]

Im assuming that would make a huge difference?

Yes, a HUGE difference. The air that is supposed to be going through the burnpot would simply bypass it through the access doors. Air takes the easiest path.

No air (or very little) through burnpot = poor or non-existant flame. Low flame temp might fake the POF (proof of fire) switch into thinking the stove is in shut down mode and stop the auger.

 

[kmkm911]

Wow! Ok, let me have my husband check again and if they are open I will have him close them and give it a try. If it still does not work, I will repost and see if I can trouble shoot any thing else. Thank you for your help! I will also post if it works!! Once again, thank you!

 

[imacman]

Pics of exhaust set-up, and maybe inside the firebox might help too.

 

[kmkm911]

Yep will get that very soon. my husbands camera isnt working. When he looked at the ash pan he said that there was 1 hole on each side of the burn pot that go to the ash pan. But he was unable to find any panels or metal to cover those. He did say that it was obvious that something was susposed to be there because there are "divots" where something needed to attach to it. But he cant find the metal peices to put there. I really hope they didnt fall off into the box and thrown away.

My husband found one access panel but he is not finding another for the other side. Is it possible to take a small piece of metal (iron) to cover it?

 

[imacman]

If you can find something that will lie flat on the hole, give it a try....has to be better than nothing. Make sure it's steel or cast iron....not aluminum or anything else.

If you don't find the other cover, give Englander a call Monday...I don't see those plates listed on the parts diagram, but I'm sure they can supply one.

 

[imacman]

BTW, you DO have the owners manual, right?

 

[kmkm911]

I have downloaded and printed the owners manual from the Englander website. The orignal owners manual was lost sometime ago by my inlaws. I think my husband is going to cut some sheet metal and put it in there and fire it up to see if it works. I'm going to have to take the pictures when I get home from work and then I can send them to you.

 

[imacman]

Yes, keep us posted...I am VERY curious to see if the plates were the problem all along.

 

[cookie10]

Ok...im on my husbands account now since mine is locked at work! We made a plate out of iron and both sides are covered. We started it and the flame was very good. We havn't seen the flame like that before. However, the auger ran for about 20 mins after start-up mode and once again, it just stopped!! Im gonna take pictures now and post them on here. So frustrating!!

 

[Phatty]

stay with it the people here are good helped me alot in the end its worth it

 

[imacman]

Ok...im on my husbands account now since mine is locked at work! We made a plate out of iron and both sides are covered. We started it and the flame was very good. We havn't seen the flame like that before. However, the auger ran for about 20 mins after start-up mode and once again, it just stopped!! Im gonna take pictures now and post them on here. So frustrating!!

Yes, frustrating is probably the "nicest" word I'd be using about now if i were you.

Next, double check to make sure that the vacuum hose from the vacuum switch is pushed on the switch and the "barb" fitting tightly. Or even before that, pull the hose off completely and make sure there aren't any cracks or holes in the hose anywhere that would leak vacuum. While it's off, take a unbent paperclip and make sure the barb end is clear of any ash.

 

[cookie10]

ok we just looked at the wiring diagram and the wires for the auger and the vacum switch were completely wrong. We just switched them to make them correct and now we are not getting any intake air. The motor that pulls the intake air is not kicking on during startup. We checked the vacum hose and there are not any cracks and the barb is clean.

here are the pictures of the exhaust pipes and intake pipes

 

[imacman]

Well, if the auger motor and combustion motor both worked before, and now the comb blower doesn't, then you definitely have wiring issues.

Double check that the wiring is the same as the wiring diagram in the owners manual. Be careful when wires go into a "bundle, as it's easy to get them confused, especially if their the same color.

 

[cookie10]

We got the combustion motor running again. The wires were wrong. However the auger is still stopping after 20-30 minutes after startup. But we did a test and added fresh pellets when the fire burned down. The fire became very strong again and the auger began working. Then it stopped after about 5 minutes and the fire burned down again....we have been adding pellets every 5- 10 mins to the burn pot. The auger still works for
a while but stops and the fire burns down. This almost seems backwards.

 

[FordMastertech]

We got the combustion motor running again. The wires were wrong. However the auger is still stopping after 20-30 minutes after startup. But we did a test and added fresh pellets when the fire burned down. The fire became very strong again and the auger began working. Then it stopped after about 5 minutes and the fire burned down again....we have been adding pellets every 5- 10 mins to the burn pot. The auger still works for
a while but stops and the fire burns down. This almost seems backwards.

I think the stove thinks is is overheating or not getting to the proper temp before the shut down cycle begins, page 21 of the manual online.
Make sure the thermal sensor wire is connected to the control board and where it attachés to the left side of the fire box.
I would disconnect the thermal sensor and reconnect it at both ends of the sensor.

CIRCUIT BOARD FUNCTIONS
COMPONENT OPERATION START OPERATION END
Exhaust Blower Starts Immediately Will continue until shutdown. Shutdown will
occur when the operating temperature is below
90 degrees.
Stirrer Three minutes after starting, the Stirrer
will begin to turn.
Will continue intermittently, as determined by the
Heat Setting, until Shutdown
Auger Three minutes after starting, the auger
will begin to turn.
The auger will continue at the feed rate
determined by the Heat Setting. NOTE: Safety
switch, Hi Limit and Vacuum Sensor much be
activated to continue proper operation.
Room Fan Begins when 110 degrees is reached Will continue to operate until the unit cools down
to below 90 degrees. This may take from
several minutes up to an hour.
Automatic
Shutdown
If, after 15 minutes, the unit has not
reached the preset operating
temperature, the unit will begin to
automatically shut down. This will be
evidenced by the red light on the
Control Board.
If the timer should expire before the preset
operating temperature is achieved, resetting the
timer is possible by switching the Control Board
“OFF†and then back “ON.â€
Normal Operation If, after 15 minutes, the preset operating
temperature of 110 degrees is
achieved, normal operation will
continue.
Operation will continue until either the Control
Board is turned “OFF,†or the operating
temperature falls to below 90 degrees. At this
time, the unit will default to “Automatic
Shutdown.â€

 

[mjbrown]

just a thought...is there a chance the thermal sensors or hi-lo limit snap discs could be bad? sounds as if the low limit one is working fine, maybe the hi limit is bad? just asking.

mike