englander 30 and 3100sf house

[upny]

sorry for the lengthy question but i've read a lot of the threads and still unsure. have a drafty 3100sf house upstate ny in the coldest part of earth. last 3 years had a pellet stove that worked pretty well, 2 bags per day for the winter (6.5 tons) plus burned about 200 gals. of oil. figured i burned about 150mm btu's for the winter gross total. unfortunately Nimo power is ridiculously unreliable here and we lost power 7 times last winter(once at 10pm when it was 15 below and dropping) got kind of tired wondering if the kids are going to freeze, along with looking like a maniac everytime running around naked trying to put out a smoking unvented pellet stove.

decided to go with wood again(had a clayton furnace 10 yrs ago) got an nch30 and about 70 fc of delicious locust and sugar maple. i see a lot of comments about this stove being pushed to heat a house this large but i also see usage of around 6 cords/season for the users. the 6 cords would be around the same 150mm btu gross that i have been using, with probably the same net after considering efficiencies. when you guys talk heating the home are you talking exclusively dependant on wood or with some supplement?

also. you talk about a burn cycle. my burn cycle with the clayton was throw in wood all day with a giant load all night. the house was 90 all winter, the kids had their windows open, and there was no snow within 20 feet of the house all winter.

 

[begreen]

For sure the wood stove is going to provide more secure heat when there are a lot of power outages, but 3100 sq ft of drafty house is going to be pushing it, especially if there are high ceilings in the house. The 30NC is a capable heater and will definitely help. Some folks here heat with wood exclusively, but many also run the central heat as a supplement. Both ways are fine and it helps to exercise the central heating system occasionally throughout the winter. The stove location is going to be important. If the stove is at one end of the house and there are doors or long hallways between it and the rooms at the other end of the house there will be a large temp difference between the ends of the house. Ideally you will want the stove to be as centrally located as possible in an open floor plan.

The 30NC is going to want well seasoned wood. Locust and sugar maple should be great, as long as the wood is fully seasoned for a couple years. How long ago was the wood split and stacked? Is it covered on top? Also note that the Englander is going to need a good flue system to provide sufficient draft to burn well.

This summer I would focus on sealing up those leaks and stopping drafts as best as is possible. Maybe get an energy audit to help sniff them out? Sealing up leaks now will pay back for the life of the house.

 

[Huntindog1]

Well the NC-30 isnt rated for a house that large that is that drafty in a cold climate that your in of Upstate NewYork. But it would put a dent in your heat bill. You would use less wood than you did in a wood furnance. N-30 is a good stove.

A stove that might fit the bill better due to it being bigger is this one:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200316353_200316353

With your situation having bigger firebox will be a nice thing to have.

 

[begreen]

Just connected with your inquiry yesterday about the chimney bracing. It sounds like it will be 15' straight up, correct? Given your location you might also want to add a cricket (snow diverter) above the pipe on the roof.

 

[upny]

For sure the wood stove is going to provide more secure heat when there are a lot of power outages, but 3100 sq ft of drafty house is going to be pushing it, especially if there are high ceilings in the house. The 30NC is a capable heater and will definitely help. Some folks here heat with wood exclusively, but many also run the central heat as a supplement. Both ways are fine and it helps to exercise the central heating system occasionally throughout the winter. The stove location is going to be important. If the stove is at one end of the house and there are doors or long hallways between it and the rooms at the other end of the house there will be a large temp difference between the ends of the house. Ideally you will want the stove to be as centrally located as possible in an open floor plan.

The 30NC is going to want well seasoned wood. Locust and sugar maple should be great, as long as the wood is fully seasoned for a couple years. How long ago was the wood split and stacked? Is it covered on top? Also note that the Englander is going to need a good flue system to provide sufficient draft to burn well.

This summer I would focus on sealing up those leaks and stopping drafts as best as is possible. Maybe get an energy audit to help sniff them out? Sealing up leaks now will pay back for the life of the house.

i'm not sealing anything up. i like a drafty house built in 1804. it would cost me more than the stove and wood combined, whats wrong with old newspaper stuffed into walls for insulation anyways? plus all the fresh cold air eliminates the need for OAK. the wood is good. i guess my reaction to the much appreciated comments is....... if the 75000 btu wood stove is in the same place as a 28000 btu pellet stove, and we were comfortable last year, there should be no reason we're not going to be more comfortable next year. i guess i'm not buying the arbitrary house size rating. i called englander to ask about the box size of their 3000sqft wood furnace and it's the same as the 30. to me btu's are btu's, if you burn 6 cords of wood and it dont go up you chimney its in the house. i did consider the drolet but cant remember why i didnt buy it.

 

[bluedogz]

if you burn 6 cords of wood and it dont go up you chimney its in the house.

Not totally accurate... Begreen's comments about the 30 wanting dry wood are really important. Mine burns radically differently with nice <20% wood vs. fresher stuff.

 

[begreen]

A pellet stove puts out continuous btus based on the thermostat setting. The wood stove puts out cyclical heat. It's peak rating is not going to happen hour after hour. If the house leaks badly house temps may vary with where the burn cycle is at. A few stoves like the BlazeKing line are more steady state if that is the goal.

 

[bholler]

Are you saying that last year you heated you entire 3100 square foot drafty house with a 28000 btu pellet stove? If that is true it is very impressive But i dont see how that could possibly work.

 

[upny]

Are you saying that last year you heated you entire 3100 square foot drafty house with a 28000 btu pellet stove? If that is true it is very impressive But i dont see how that could possibly work.

pellet stove plus around 200 gallons of oil. the pellet stove kept the house at around 69 degrees up to about 20 degrees. overnight it would get to around 60. dont know exactly what the pellet stove was rated but it is an england 2200 sq ft model. i replaced one of the auger motors and it did turn slightly faster but like i said, almost exactly 2 bags per day which equals around 28k btu/hr. i wasnt really unhappy with the setup but the last time the power went out i swore i wasnt goint to be dependent on power exclusively any more. the other response questions the continuous btu of the pellet stove but if you're home running the stove at full throttle all day wont you get close to their stated max output? i guess i'm just stubborn. 6 cords of good wood is 150mm btu and that's about what i used last endless winter with at least 10 days less than minus 25. i think the reason i didnt get the drolet big stove is the firebox. on their website they say 3.4 ft, on the retailers website it says 3.9 ft. who do you believe? if my plan doesnt work i'll put the pellet stove in next to the wood stove and run them both.

 

[bholler]

No you will not get continuous even heat out of a wood stove the same as a pellet stove there will always be peaks and valleys and the stove manufacturers go by the peak. But honestly if you heated your house comfortably with a pellet stove on 2 bags a day i would think the 30 might work for you. I just still don't see how i have a 2100 old drafty house in central pa and a single pellet stove would not make a dent in my heat even my cawley lemay wont do all of it when it gets real cold. But if it works for you great. You can always run pellet stoves on battery backup for quite a while also

 

[begreen]

If you run the stove at full tilt all day you are going to be feeding it like a fireman and possibly burning it out. That is not the way it is meant to be run. Based on what you are saying about the pellet stove it is possible that you will be able to run it normally which will be filling it about every 8 hrs. Note that this will not burn like the Clayton furnace. It will want fully seasoned wood and will actually get hotter as one reduces the air supply once the fire is going.

 

[upny]

ok, if i stood in front of my england 30 and stuffed 4" pieces all day long and kept it at 700,800, 900 whatever the max is without melting it, would it heat my 3100 sq ft drafty house? i dont care about using too much wood or shortening the stove life. is there something mystical about those secondary burn tubes that doesnt allow you to feed the stove as soon as there's space in the box? i never intended to put in a load and watch it burn down to coals then load it fully again except overnight.. i can't believe i'm looking forward to another heinous winter just to get this stove working and see if it works. by the way, what does set those tubes off? is it temperature? thanks for any patient responses. i wont post any more until january

 

[bholler]

Burning it that way will not work well at all. And if you kept it at 800 or 900 non stop i would be surprised if it made it through the heating season. And the tubes supply fresh air into the smoke stream which as long as the temperature in the box is high enough the combustible materials in the smoke will ignite. If you were able to heat your house with a pellet stove i think the 30 will probably do it for you

 

[HotCoals]

along with looking like a maniac everytime running around naked trying to put out a smoking unvented pellet stove.

Un-vented?

 

[blades]

In order to do what you stated above you would be shoveling out hot coals to make room for new splits. wasting 50% of the btu available. This idea combined with your other thread tells me you need to do some serious rethinking and modify your actions. Not trying to be a xxxxxx here but you really need to understand and correctly use solid fuel appliances for your own safety and that of your family if you have one. In a 3100 sq ft house that is drafty you would need a minimum of 2 NC30's or similar units to heat with wood.

 

[kennyp2339]

Upny, I think you'll be fine with the NC30, There is a learning curve with them though. Wood needs to be dry, 20% or below, anything 20% or above will just make you frustrated with the stove ( and any new epa tube stove) The NC30 likes a good flu, 15ft @6" is the minimum height, if you can add a length to that you'll be fine, your chimney is the engine that drives the beast.
As far as burning the stove (and all epa tube stoves) they don't like to be fed like there old smoke dragon parents, you make an established fire, add a couple big pieces then damper as low as you can go, the secondary reburn (tubes) burn the smoke. (efficiency happens here) Low damper setting slows the fire down (saves wood), reburn keeps the fire clean.

 

[begreen]

Take some time to go over the many threads on how to run the 30NC posted in this forum. There are dozens of them written up by experienced owners. If you run the stove as you have proposed it will be overfired and burnt out after a season or two. Run the stove with larger 6-8" splits once the fire has been established. Let them get burning well then incrementally decrease the air supply every 10 minutes or so. As you do this, secondary combustion will kick in and the stove top will start getting hotter. Normal operating temp at the stovetop will be in the 650F range.

 

[Highbeam]

I have spent the last year using the NC30 in "balls out" mode to intermittently heat a cold shop building that is too large. I have attached a photo of what happens when you keep stuffing wood in as soon as there is room.

You can maintain a high temperature 700 or so, without constant stuffing but don't be bothered when the stove temp drops to 600 as the load comes down.

I do not believe that you can "burn out" this stove in one or two seasons so long as you don't overfire it and melt it. I will inform you that you can indeed melt this stove even when temps are reasonable so don't go pushing the stove with high throttle settings when the surface is past 600.

The most effective way to get heat from this stove is to operate it at 600-700 all the time and use fans to steal heat from the surface of the stove. Think of it like a furnace and the surface is the heat exchanger. Incidentally, you would be better off with a furnace.

3100 SF is not impossible to heat if it is reasonably insulated, open, and you are willing to feed the NC30. I would not recommend depending on the NC30 for 100% of your heat though, be prepared to supplement.

 

[begreen]

At 900F the OP proposed the stove would definitely be overfired.

 

[BobUrban]

if wood consumption is no issue get two 30's and run dualies.

 

[Highbeam]

ok, if i stood in front of my england 30 and stuffed 4" pieces all day long and kept it at 700,800, 900 whatever the max is without melting it, would it heat my 3100 sq ft drafty house?

Yes. It will definitely provide heat to your house. Will it be sufficient? That depends on lots of other factors like temperature outside and desired temperature inside, insulation level, stove location, openness of the floor plan. But yes, you will get heat in the home from burning an NC30 as hard as you can.

Most 3100 SF homes in NY, old enough to be drafty, have a basement it seems. In that basement I would put a wood furnace crudely (or well) ducted to the living space of the home and let her rip. In addition, I would have a very large stove in the living space for comfort heating. These in addition to the regular thermostatic oil/gas/electric heating systems that should be in place anyway. You've got to think about things like plumbing in remote parts of the house freezing up.

You didn't really think you would provide 100% of heat required by an old 3100 SF in NY using a single stove did you?

 

[begreen]

I'm going to merge the first thread with this one, the context is getting lost. The OP is also burning 200 gal of oil/winter. And I suspect this is not going to be the last question.

 

[upny]

Yes. It will definitely provide heat to your house. Will it be sufficient? That depends on lots of other factors like temperature outside and desired temperature inside, insulation level, stove location, openness of the floor plan. But yes, you will get heat in the home from burning an NC30 as hard as you can.

Most 3100 SF homes in NY, old enough to be drafty, have a basement it seems. In that basement I would put a wood furnace crudely (or well) ducted to the living space of the home and let her rip. In addition, I would have a very large stove in the living space for comfort heating. These in addition to the regular thermostatic oil/gas/electric heating systems that should be in place anyway. You've got to think about things like plumbing in remote parts of the house freezing up.

You didn't really think you would provide 100% of heat required by an old 3100 SF in NY using a single stove did you?

basement too short for anything down there. if nothing else, its got to provide more heat than the pellet stove and i wont be a slave to undependable power. besides, i'm paying money to keep the house at 59 degrees today.

 

[bholler]

what do you mean you are keeping the house at 59 today?

 

[Grisu]

what do you mean you are keeping the house at 59 today?

Overcooling the AC?