Englander 30-NC questions

[Rowski]

I've got a few questions comparing my Defiant 1610 NC to the Englander 30NC.

Is the 30NC harder to get to run properly, ie secondary burns with wood that is a bit less than perfect?

Will the 30NC work well, start up draft, in a new (one year old) Masonry chimney, interior, with 8" flue and approx 25ft high?

Can the 30NC handle as much wood as the Defiant? The fire boxes are close in spec but the Defiant is top loading so filling it full is easier. This leads me to the next question.

Are the 30NC burn times longer or shorter than the Defiant when everything is equal?

Thanks...

 

[BrotherBart]

Good luck finding somebody who owns a Defiant and a 30 to be able to answer those questions. If they have both of them they have a mighty warm house.

 

[BrotherBart]

Now, as to the 30-NC. From everything I have seen here about Everburn stoves the 30 is a delight. "Less than perfect wood"? I put six cords of it through my 30 the first season. It'll burn it. Some times with a vengeance. Much easier to control with dry wood but with the less than dry it will still get it on. Just uses a lot more of it.

On the burn time thing that is determined by the firebox capacity and the wood. It'll walk with the big dogs on burn times.

But the 30 ain't furniture, it's heat.

 

[Rowski]

On the burn time thing that is determined by the firebox capacity and the wood. It’ll walk with the big dogs on burn times.

So basically if I get 8 to 10 hrs out of the Defiant the 30 would very similar?

But the 30 ain’t furniture, it’s heat.

I like the looks of the Defiant and the top loading option, that's what sold me the stove. It was one of the few things of significant value that I bought with out learning more about it. Unfortunately I found this site after the sale and frustrations were running very high.

Now.. I just don't trust the stove. The more I read and listen about the downdraft style stove the more concerned I become. My "fountain" refractory is flaking. Dealer is supposed to get back to me, he claims it may not be covered under warranty due to company being bought out. And if it is covered it would only be cover if it completely fails.

I heat only with wood. I can't afford to have this stove fail in mid January when its -40*F and wait 2 or more weeks for parts.

I'm just looking for something to HEAT my house. Something that is simple not complex. Something that has only a gasket or two.

I'm more of a function over form kinda guy. The simpler the better. I just didn't practice what I preach... on this purchase.


Thanks...

 

[moosetrek]

Last winter was our first with the Englander. Some of our pine wood was less than perfect, but it burned fine just not as hot or clean. No problems, except we did have the screen in the chimney cap clog in a blizzard - ice and creosote combined to plug it up. This year, we have more seasoned pine wood and it seems more stable, and a fair amount of more heat. I would put this one against any similar stove for burn time and efficiency, but as mentioned it's not sold for it's beauty; it's simple, functional, and solid.

 

[fredarm]

I'm just looking for something to HEAT my house. Something that is simple not complex. Something that has only a gasket or two.

I'm more of a function over form kinda guy. The simpler the better. I just didn't practice what I preach... on this purchase.


Thanks...

Sounds like the 30 is the stove for you!

 

[Hiram Maxim]

But the 30 ain't furniture, it's heat.

I beg to differ....... :cheese:

To me its one of my favorite pieces of furniture!

My China cabinet doesn't keep me nearly as warm or look as nice with a fire blazing in it......

 

[BrotherBart]

But the 30 ain't furniture, it's heat.

I beg to differ....... :cheese:

To me its one of my favorite pieces of furniture!

My China cabinet doesn't keep me nearly as warm or look as nice with a fire blazing in it......

My wife and I think that for our application it is the best looking stove out there. But if everybody wants to think it is ugly we don't care. We would probably think their houses, cars and kids are ugly. :lol:

 

[Rowski]

The spec says the 30 puts out maximum 75K BTUs. The Defiant 60K BTUs. Does the 30 put out more "heat"?

Also what is the depth of the fire box?

Thanks...

 

[BrotherBart]

The spec says the 30 puts out maximum 75K BTUs. The Defiant 60K BTUs. Does the 30 put out more "heat"?

Also what is the depth of the fire box?

Thanks...

Nobody is gonna be able to tell ya if it puts out "more heat". On a three degree night last year our 2,500 sq. ft. center hall colonial was 80 downstairs and 74 upstairs and that is with half of the stove back in a fireplace but the blower was busy. The actual depth of the firebox in the 30 is 20"X20" but the front to back measurement is almost up to the glass. The stove is happiest with 16" to 17" inch wood so that there is air space around it. The usable firebox height is the nine inches to the top of the fire brick but you can go a little over that. Holds a hell of a lot of wood.

The main thing a 30 does that a Everburn stove appears to not do is light up and burn without all the fuss. In fact slowing it down, not heating it up, is usually the challenge.

 

[EL DRIFTO]

it's a nicer piece of furniture than my tv
better picture too

 

[Rowski]

The main thing a 30 does that a Everburn stove appears to not do is light up and burn without all the fuss. In fact slowing it down, not heating it up, is usually the challenge.

Is there a way to slow it down? ie slightly restricting the secondary air intake and/or flue damper?

Sounds like 18" wood n/s (front to back facing) would barely work but 18" wood e/w (side to side facing) would fit more comfortably.

 

[BrotherBart]

Burning E/W slowing it down isn't a problem. I only burn N/S so it tends to burn hotter. 18" works just fine. Leaves some room on the sides for combustion air circulation burning E/W.

I just don't like E/W burning. Never did. Never will. Too much of a hassle loading the stove and getting the burn going. My old stove would take 24" splits N/S. Spoiled me. Air should go into the stove between the splits, not crash into the split in the front looking for a home.

You control it by learning when to start lowering the primary air in stages before the inferno happens.

 

[Constrictor]

This is my second year with the englander 30. Love it. Heats my 3 bedroom house with ease here in Southwest Mo. I get all night burns, and the price is certainly right.

 

[EL DRIFTO]

as far as starting it
last night i noticed that it takes a small load of splits just to get it warm
then another load on top to get it ready to start bigguns
i can get 24" in diaganolly & it doesn't matter once it's going

my point is during the start up, it seems like opening the air control up seems to let the heat out of the box
right out the tubes into the chimney
leaving the door cracked, with the air control choked, seems to be how to get it going

whenever i open the air control during startup, it seems to hurt

i've been keeping the air control @ 20%
you have to keep the stove loaded to get it to burn there
but that seems to be the way it works

i wonder how often i should run it up to 700, since i'm not doing that anymore ??

 

[tradergordo]

Hey Rowski, I see you are from Jay Peak. I went skiing there for the first time last year. It was -25F at the time, I've never skiied in temps that low before, it was kind of crazy. Had an apple and a snickers bar in my pocket, both became solid rocks. Any exposed skin was damaged.

I've got an everburn stove too and I wonder how long its going to last. I've often thought it would be nice to pick up a "30" (preferably on the cheap in some clearance after season) just to have in the back pocket so to speak for when it will eventually be needed. With the tax credit, its going to be very tempting to me toward the end of this season.

 

[Rowski]

Hey Rowski, I see you are from Jay Peak. I went skiing there for the first time last year. It was -25F at the time, I've never skied in temps that low before, it was kind of crazy. Had an apple and a snickers bar in my pocket, both became solid rocks. Any exposed skin was damaged.

Great place to ski! I'm sorry you had the cold and the wind on your visit. Unfortunately that is the nature of Jay Peak. I myself just started to get skiing again with my kids in the last couple of years. I skied there as a kid and teenager every day possible, from lates '70s to the early '90. I had to stop because I needed to work $$. But now I'm back at it and love every minute, its awesome with the family! The weather is like this 1/3 its awesome, 1/3 marginal, 1/3 bad. I think the best time to "vacation" is in mid to late March. It still can be windy but not brutal cold, don't get me wrong it will get cold but not krazy cold. My son and I skied on April 15th. I think about 95% of the mountain was open and it was in the upper 40's blue sky and no wind... just awesome. The picture below is on Uller's Dream.

I've got an everburn stove too and I wonder how long its going to last. I've often thought it would be nice to pick up a "30" (preferably on the cheap in some clearance after season) just to have in the back pocket so to speak for when it will eventually be needed. With the tax credit, its going to be very tempting to me toward the end of this season.

I don't think I have ever thanked you personally for all the info you provided on the use of the everburn system. Your information helped me tremendously. I have my like and dislikes about the Defiant. What has me concerned is the breaking down of the refractory. I just can't justify to have to spend $500 to $800 to replace these parts every few years. Also I CAN NOT have this stove go down in the winter, I can't be stuck waiting weeks for parts. So we'll see. I very interested in the Englander due to the price, simplicity, and reasonable replacement parts. If everything works out I should be able to sell the Defiant get an Englnander and have "some $$ left for extra gaskets and fiber boards.

 

[EL DRIFTO]

i scooted the 30 over yesturday, once it was cold
slipped off the flue pipe & noticed excessive creosote
i got a sweeper & 2 10' long 1/2" conduits, etc, thanks forum people

anyway, it was about 4" deep in the bottom of the chimney before i vacuumed it out with a shop vac
WOW that seems like 3 cups...
not to mention the flue pipe & stove itself
i took out the front air tube & panels, scrubbed the inside too

maybe it was that stained cedar paneling i burnt before i got on this forum...woops
my wife was complaining of the odor from the smoke outside
smells much nicer now

should i literally be checking my chimney every month ??

did all that creosote come from from stained siding or cardboard i use to start fires ??

 

[Rowski]

Can the 30 be used with a screen on the front door?

Also does there have to be minimum rise between the stove collar and the thimble?

I saw the 30 Friday at local Lowes, looks well built. I also went and saw a PE Summit. There is a price difference of around $900. The steel on the top looks a lot thicker and it uses EBT. Is the difference between the 2 stove worth the $900 dollars?

Thanks...

 

[tradergordo]

What has me concerned is the breaking down of the refractory. I just can't justify to have to spend $500 to $800 to replace these parts every few years. Also I CAN NOT have this stove go down in the winter, I can't be stuck waiting weeks for parts. So we'll see. I very interested in the Englander due to the price, simplicity, and reasonable replacement parts. If everything works out I should be able to sell the Defiant get an Englnander and have "some $$ left for extra gaskets and fiber boards.

We are definitely on the same page. I could live with the VC stove if the EXPENSIVE refractory parts were durable. It just isn't cost effective to replace those parts every few years... supposedly those parts would have been covered under the old "lifetime" warranty which doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Rowski]

If everything works out I should be able to sell the Defiant get an Englnander and have “some $$ left for extra gaskets and fiber boards.

So looks like this won't happen. Hopefully I can sell it for near or slightly less money as the Englander.

So I ordered a 30-NC from my local Ace Hardware. Price paid $1099. I get free shipping to the store. The store is 2 miles from my house. They will let me unpack the stove and help me get it on to a small utility trailer with fold down ramp. They will also let me use, the are also a rental place, movers dolly.

I could have gone to Lowes or Home depot and saved about $100 bucks but that would require me to remove my snowplow and 2 yard sander from my truck and drive 60 miles one way.

So... its all in the works. But now I have that "lump in your throat" feeling did I do the right thing??



More questions:

My current setup is a 25ft masonry chimney, should I install a pipe damper or try it out first?

What can I get away with in terms of a break in fire(s)? I've read in the past steel stove guys just light'en and start heating?

Any advantage or disadvantage of using legs vs pedestal?


Thanks again for all you help, wisdom and support.

 

[SlyFerret]

I don't recall a ever hearing anyone with a 30 who hasn't been happy with their purchase.

I know I absolutely love mine. Best money I ever spent.

Try it without the damper first. 25 feet should draft great.

As for break in... I did mine in three stages. One small kindling fire, one slightly larger fire... and then let it rip.

I liked the look of the legs, so that's what I went with. Not sure if there really is an advantage to one over the other.

-SF

 

[BrotherBart]

Wood stoves sit on legs. Televisions sit on pedestals. :lol: Use the ped to sit a barbecue on.

Enjoy that 30. It'll heat ya right. I was the first one on here to buy one and I know that concern you have. It will literally melt away once you get that bad boy rolling.

Makes me want to drive three miles and slap the crap out of the manager at the ACE store here. He never could figure out the shipping charge so I had mine shipped two thirds of the way across the country from Colorado.

 

[FireAnt]

Wood stoves sit on legs. Televisions sit on pedestals. :lol: Use the ped to sit a barbecue on.

Enjoy that 30. It'll heat ya right. I was the first one on here to buy one and I know that concern you have. It will literally melt away once you get that bad boy rolling.

Makes me want to drive three miles and slap the crap out of the manager at the ACE store here. He never could figure out the shipping charge so I had mine shipped two thirds of the way across the country from Colorado.

That's funny about the pedestal. My wife and I are going to take the pedestal off and put the legs on our 13. The 30 is a great looking stove. My wife picked that stove out of the bunch when we were looking. To bad it wouldn't fit in our hearth. We now have it's little brother.

 

[Rowski]

What about the break in fire(s)? What is the least to do?
The stove manual (on line manual) says to "allow stove to cure before burning long periods of time at high temps"