EPA ban on wood stoves?

[j7art2]

I thought I remember reading recently that the EPA is relaxing their stringent regulations on wood stoves, then one of my friends posted this article to my facebook timeline which directly contradicts what I had thought.

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2015/...-burning-stoves-just-days-from-taking-effect/

This article seems bogus to me. Does anyone have any FACTUAL information on this? I know some wood stoves/furnaces are EPA exempt too. How do they get around that? Sorry for the ignorance in all of this. I don't know WHAT to believe anymore.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I doubt if anything like that will ever get enforced around here at the homeowner level.SO the stove i already have will be safe. The govt is broke, laying off police, city workers,. I dont think they will pay someone to run around checking for woodsmoke coming out of chimneys. I guess we will find out in February. When the power goes down during this blizzard people with wood stoves ( and air polluting generators)will be the only ones with heat.

 

[j7art2]

My concern is availability. My current wood furnace add-on is nearly 40 years old, and is on it's last legs. In the next 5 years, it's going to need to be replaced. What then?

Again, my question is how do some of these stoves get an EPA exempt status? I've seen quite a few online.

 

[begreen]

It's mostly anti-govt. nonsense. The EPA is proposing a phase 3 incremental improvement in the reduction of emissions. This is the result of reacting to lawsuits by the states for cleaner stoves. WA state and OR state have banned pre-EPA smoke dragons from new installs and new homes for years. And that's not a bad thing IMO. There are many good discussions here on the topic. Search for EPA in the title.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/proposed-epa-new-regs-it-is-not-the-end-of-the-world.126709/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/why-does-epa-require-stoves-to-test-under-1-kg-hr.129105/
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/comments-to-the-new-proposed-epa-regulations.129569/

 

[Seasoned Oak]

My concern is availability. My current wood furnace add-on is nearly 40 years old, and is on it's last legs. In the next 5 years, it's going to need to be replaced. What then?

Again, my question is how do some of these stoves get an EPA exempt status? I've seen quite a few online.

By making them so you cant close off the air. I had one of these exempt stoves called the "King stove" by US stove from Tractor supply. Basically a steel box with a hole in the top for the flue pipe. Could not get any more than a 2 hour burn with this stove. This piece of junk still sells fo $500 When you can by a perfectly good EPA stove from the same company for $500 called the century 2000. I also have one of these and its a very good stove. These EPA exempt stoves are the ones that should be banned, not the EPA stoves.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Probably the end result will be even better burning wood stoves which would be a good thing. Although they may be a little more costly ,sort of like cars with lots of emission controls.

 

[begreen]

Note that as with the previous step from phase 1 to phase 2 the change will be staged over 5 years. Also note that the final rules have not been decided yet.

Probably the end result will be even better burning wood stoves which would be a good thing. Although they may be a little more costly ,sort of like cars with lots of emission controls.

Prolly going to see a lot more cat stoves and hybrids showing up.

 

[j7art2]

I wish I could get a $500 anything wood related right now. All of the systems I'm looking at START at $3000, not including installation and HVAC ductwork.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I wish I could get a $500 anything wood related right now. All of the systems I'm looking at START at $3000, not including installation and HVAC ductwork.

Your local TSC supply store has some fairly good stoves at dirt cheap prices. Most notably the 2000 model (heats 2000 Sq ft) Is $599 often on sale for $499)
as well as the 2500 and 3000 model which tops out at around a Grand. Stay away from the EPA Exempt stove they have as they are junk in my opinion. All are free standing wood stoves. I have the Country hearth 2000 model i got for 499 with a blower in a 600 Sq ft Apt and will be moving it to a cabin in the woods as soon as its built.

 

[Oldman47]

I took the time to read through the proposed rules and there is definitely an impact. Right now the pellet stoves and the outside wood burning furnaces are unregulated. The proposed rules basically get rid of the exempt status of any wood burner for new installations. The proposed new particulate limits mimic the Washington state limits so stove makers doing business in Washington would not be affected at all. The OWB manufacturers would need to upgrade to standards like the EPA compliant stoves already meet, so we do have the technology today but have had no incentive for OWB manufacturers to improve. Pellet stoves are already quite clean although they don't fall under the present EPA requirements. The whole thing phases in over a 5 years period so it gives stove makers plenty of time to make minor adjustments. It also impacts fireplaces and there it is problematic. Sitting in front of a new open fireplace will probably no longer be able to happen because they will be unable to run the needed certification testing to build one.

 

[begreen]

I wish I could get a $500 anything wood related right now. All of the systems I'm looking at START at $3000, not including installation and HVAC ductwork.

For $1000 or under there are some excellent choices in clean burning, freestanding stoves. Are you looking at a stove or a furnace?

 

[Seasoned Oak]

The englander 30nc is $899 at my local Home depot but can be found for as little as $650.00. Great stove at either price.

 

[j7art2]

Furnace add-on.

My current unit has an air induction blower, but pipes into my normal furnace. The normal furnace blower kicks all the heat through the house on wood, with a propane backup if the house falls under a certain temperature. House is 1700 sqft.

My buddy has a Yukon-Eagle wood furnace/oil furnace combo that seems to heat his 2200 sqft house that's 120 years old like a champ. That thing was blazing hot with practically twigs in it, and here I am burning 12" diameter rounds and still not getting that kind of heat. Lol

 

[j7art2]

I understand that technically wood furnace talk belongs on another sub-forum, but the EPA seems to be going after everything which will effect us all, so don't mind the tangent.

 

[begreen]

This could be a system design issue. It's important to tie in to the trunk duct at the correct location. Also, if there is no backflow prevention the heat can just loop within the system and be poorly distributed. What furnace is currently installed?

 

[j7art2]

How efficient is it? I've seen the Daka wood furnaces at Menards also, but it seems identical to what I own. If I'm going to spend the money, I'd like to make it more efficient than mine currently. I've gone through 6-7 cords this year total. My buddy has gone through 4, heating twice the house with half the insulation.

 

[Oldman47]

The price of stoves varies all over the map. I was in Menards yesterday and they had a Drolet EPA model for just under $500. I didn't pay close attention to it because I am not in the market right now. They also had an "exempt" stove for a tiny bit less from another manufacturer.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Might get more heat by splitting and drying those 12" diameter rounds. My stove burns hotter with wood no more than 3" in diameter. larger stuff will burn longer but not hotter.

 

[j7art2]

Might get more heat by splitting and drying those 12" diameter rounds.

I've been splitting some of the ones larger than that and hitting them with the moisture meter, just to see and because the wife is 8 months pregnant and can't load those monsters anymore. Most of them are checking out fairly well, but I get what you mean, and will probably continue to make them smaller in the future.

I'm curious if ALL of the current wood furnaces (even the Daka at Menards for example) are more efficient than my dinosaur, or if they truly are just the same thing I currently have, which is what it appears they are on the surface.

 

[begreen]

How is it connected to the main hvac system? Are there backflow dampers in place?

PS: This thread should be continued in the boiler room.

 

[j7art2]

The unit works fine as is. I don't know how it's setup. I've been burning all winter with it, and have only used 5% of my pig this year as opposed to 3 full pigs last year.

I apologize for derailing the thread, we can go back on topic about the EPA regulations. I wasn't sure where the "generalized EPA regulation post" should go that potentially effects us all. lol

 

[begreen]

Nevermind. This is already covered here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/wood-furnace-issues-energy-mate.133189/#post-1789014

That is the better place. I'll pick it up there.

 

[j7art2]

Nevermind. This is already covered here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/wood-furnace-issues-energy-mate.133189/#post-1789014

That is the better place. I'll pick it up there.

It works well now for the dinosaur it is, you guys were awesome at helping me sort out the issue.

I just know that coming up, I'll be needing a new one soon. I'm considering adding secondary burn tubes to it to get more efficiency, but then again, mortaring firebrick to the walls may be just as efficient at this point.

Again, sorry to derail the post. I always have trouble finding where exactly to post generalized wood burning topics that don't specifically relate to one type of burning unit specifically (even though it ended up turning into that.)

 

[begreen]

Sounds like they covered the furnace issues pretty well already in that thread. The new EPA regs will affect wood furnaces too.

FWIW, I would consider having an energy audit done on the house if one has not been done already. Tightening up the house, sealing air leaks and adding insulation might be the best investment at this time.