EPA JUST A SNIFF AWAY IN ALASKA...NYT ARTICLE

[Phoenix Hatchling]

HERES A LINK TO SHOW JUST HOW PRESSURED OUR HOBBY/INTEREST/HEATING CHOICE IS:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/u...ying-warm-a-thick-coat-of-dirty-air.html?_r=0

 

[jharkin]

What it shows is that we have to be mindful of the adverse health effects of our hobby. If you become the one who got lung cancer you would not think it's unreasonable scrutiny.


Question is, are all these folks using EPA stoves and do they have well seasoned wood and know good burning practices?

 

[Lloyd the redneck]

Veterinarian and air quality activist. Sounds fishy. Also it's in the New York slimes. I do agree that people probly need epa stoves and some more knowledge. Dad told me back in the 70s oil embargo everyone heated with wood and it was downright nasty in certain places.

 

[DBoon]

Maybe someone who actually lives in Fairbanks, Alaska can chime in on this one...

 

[Phoenix Hatchling]

What it shows is that we have to be mindful of the adverse health effects of our hobby. If you become the one who got lung cancer you would not think it's unreasonable scrutiny.


Question is, are all these folks using EPA stoves and do they have well seasoned wood and know good burning practices?

Very true on all counts, but must be mindful that with the stroke of a pen, a lifestyle and heat source dating back eons can come to a halt. Comply or else. If I were one who got lung cancer, I firstly would question everything in my life I had done or come across. Lifestyle, food, friends, occupation, materials exposure, etc. Then, more likely than not, I would not be able to define what got me. Contributory negligence as it were. Ironically, as houses have become more "efficient" and green, the lower the quality of the indoor air. Samplings of air taken inside well sealed houses with windows SHUT, have proven to contain more pollutants than the "fresh" outdoors. Not debating you in any way, and respect your views, but simply raising awareness of conflicting views.

 

[rwhite]

I can see how folks are worried. I live in an area of many valleys and cold air pockets. Luckily I live up high. We are very sparsely populated but the air and smoke sinks into those valleys and sits there. As you drive down the roads it smells like a forest fire every time you get to a low spot. I'm glad my house is not down in there. I'm all for clean air but the sad part will be that by the time they study this, create a program and pay someone to enforce they could probably just buy everyone a New EPA stove and have it installed.

 

[ddddddden]

If I were not burning wood, I would be burning electrons, generated by burning coal. ~50% of electricity in my state is generated by burning coal. Last I heard, "clean coal" burning was an unrealizable fantasy. They're converting some powerplants to biomass or natural gas, but until they quit burning coal on such a large scale, going after wood burners is silly, IMO. YMMV in other areas.

 

[Highbeam]

If I were not burning wood, I would be burning electrons, generated by burning coal. ~50% of electricity in my state is generated by burning coal. Last I heard, "clean coal" burning was an unrealizable fantasy. They're converting some powerplants to biomass or natural gas, but until they quit burning coal on such a large scale, going after wood burners is silly, IMO. YMMV in other areas.

I agree but wood burners are an easy target. No big money or lobbyists looking out for us. Very little political protection. You "need" electricity, burning wood is just redneck, dangerous, and wasteful right? Might as well be burning tires!

 

[begreen]

Heavens! Folks want to be able to breathe and would like pre-EPA stove burning to be stopped before it stops them. Don't let big bad gubmint do this.

 

[ddddddden]

Agreed, BG.
Anyone burning anything should do so as cleanly as reasonably possible.

Just sayin', coal is the elephant in the room. Not the elephant that nobody talks about, but still a big elephant. Big and full of mercury.

 

[tarzan]

As a side note, wow! an objective article from the New York Times. Well done!

 

[gregbesia]

I can see how folks are worried. I live in an area of many valleys and cold air pockets. Luckily I live up high. We are very sparsely populated but the air and smoke sinks into those valleys and sits there. As you drive down the roads it smells like a forest fire every time you get to a low spot. I'm glad my house is not down in there. I'm all for clean air but the sad part will be that by the time they study this, create a program and pay someone to enforce they could probably just buy everyone a New EPA stove and have it installed.

Maybe in some cases having an EPA stove does not solve everything. My next door neighbor has what I think is a big Regency wood stove with secondary combustion. ( I have seen it only once few years ago so no model #) He buys wood in log length, after waiting 1 year he then cuts , splits and calls it seasoned. He makes huge splits ,like 8x8x18 . Red oak that still weights a ton . He uses that so it lasts longer in his stove. His chimney smokes for hours, big time. Good thing not in my direction. He tells me that he has to clean his chimney every few weeks and removes buckets of creosote. He is a nice guy otherwise,but he is resisting to change his ways. When I try to talk to him about what I learned on this site: css, wait 2-3 years, burn , he looks at me like I'm crazy. When I told him that I love pine for shoulder season and to burn down the coals, he almost called the state to have me committed. I think than without educating people on good burning practice, replacing older stoves won't solve all the problems.

 

[ddahlgren]

If I were not burning wood, I would be burning electrons, generated by burning coal. ~50% of electricity in my state is generated by burning coal. Last I heard, "clean coal" burning was an unrealizable fantasy. They're converting some powerplants to biomass or natural gas, but until they quit burning coal on such a large scale, going after wood burners is silly, IMO. YMMV in other areas.

It depends on what coal they are burning and the actual plant's s state of repair and compliance. Columbia is exporting a lot of anthracite cheaper than we can mine it here. Anthracite burns very clean certainly as clean or cleaner than wood than what the average person will do. What has to be remembered is the people willing to ask for help and give help here are a very small percentage of people that burn wood. We care about doing it right most don't. Some power stations burn bituminous coal that if not burned hot and fast is very dirty. Those are the problem power plants not coal in general. I switched from wood to coal out of frustration buying wood as not able to cut my own and not enough room to store 3 years ahead as there is no such thing as seasoned wood for sale that has a realistic price tag.

 

[rwhite]

Certainly EPA stoves are not a panacea. There will always be folks that burn green wood or refuse to change. But there will always be people that cut the cats off of cars, burn tires and dump oil in a hole outside their shop. But I am optimistic that given the chance most people do the right thing. For all of EPAs faults (and there are many) I can't imagine what our air and water would be like without regulation.

 

[ddahlgren]

I think the key is there is regulation and there is REGULATION.

 

[begreen]

Ironically many EPA regulations come about from the states suing them, then other states sue because they don't like being regulated.

http://projects.registerguard.com/r...75/wood-emissions-epa-federal-states.html.csp

 

[ddddddden]

I didn't mean to suggest that burning dirty is okay, just wanted to look at the scale of burning for residential heating...reminds me of all the PR promoting residential recycling, which is a drop in the bucket compared to industrial recycling.(I do recycle, even though the service here sucks.)

Of course, scale means nothing if one of the 13-percenters with the dirty OWB going 24/7 is upwind of you. I reckon it boils down to having obnoxious neighbors. If they are stubbornly obnoxious or stubbornly incompetent burners, all you can do is move. Competence can't be legislated.

 

[jharkin]

As a side note, wow! an objective article from the New York Times. Well done!

The fact that the conclusions of articles don't agree with your personal politics has nothing to do with how objective they are.

There are many fact checking organizations around, and the NYT non-editorial reporting generally checks out pretty straight.

 

[ddddddden]

p.s. A hot issue in my state is where to dump all the coal ash. Haven't heard of any locals getting riled up over ash from biomass.

 

[volunbeer]

I wanted to do a wood boiler, but Washington State bans them. I am on 21 acres with very few neighbors and I am above all of them and the prevailing wind does not hit their house from mine. I was highly upset that WA state bans boilers. First and foremost, I think that any wood burning device has the potential to adversely affect my neighbors so it is something to be cognizant of. I am on the hill in a valley and at times in the winter the air sinks and air does not move much. I take this into account when I want to burn a slash pile because I want to be a good neighbor. I do not agree with blanket bans of wood burning devices. Like everything in life, it is highly dependent on numerous factors such as location, quality of wood and stove, etc etc.

Issues like these are better left to local communities. I can burn wood all day long where I am at and it will have minimal impact on anyone else. I have also seen the wood boiler in action in a trailer park burning green wood - that is not cool. Bottom line, allow local communities to regulate air quality from wood burning. In a state like Washington, that has a hundred thousand plus acres burn every summer it is hard to swallow a "one Earth air policy" that factors into the government decision. On the other hand, I don't have any issue with EPA stoves or cars that do not belch exhaust on everyone behind them. It is a balance and like everything with government - someone will not be happy.

 

[ddahlgren]

p.s. A hot issue in my state is where to dump all the coal ash. Haven't heard of any locals getting riled up over ash from biomass.

It is currently used in at least paving and concrete and certain anything that needs a good filler agent it would work just fine.

 

[bholler]

Anthracite burns very clean certainly as clean or cleaner than wood than what the average person will do.

Cleaner in some ways yes but it still puts allot more chemicals into the environment than wood. Believe me I work in some areas where coal is still the primary fuel used for heat and during cold spells you can smell the sulfur and feel it in your eyes and lungs. And yes all that is burned there is anthracite this is the center of coal country pa with some of the best anthracite in the world. Yes bituminous is much worse but anthracite is not as clean burning as many claim.

It is currently used in at least paving and concrete and certain anything that needs a good filler agent it would work just fine.

Unless it is anything that will be affected by the acid casued when water mixes with the coal ash. So no re bar in the concrete ect. It is also a very soft aggregate so no high strength concrete either.

 

[tarzan]

The fact that the conclusions of articles don't agree with your personal politics has nothing to do with how objective they are.

There are many fact checking organizations around, and the NYT non-editorial reporting generally checks out pretty straight.

It has nothing to do with my personal politics. I commended the article because the writer didn't interject theres. Something that's becoming increasingly rare amongst news organizations.

 

[blacktail]

I think than without educating people on good burning practice, replacing older stoves won't solve all the problems.

This.

 

[Rearscreen]

I think the EPA is history soon. Move on folks, nothing to see here....