EPA stove ?

[outcast]

hello, guys. fng here.

i just bought my first house, 100+ years old, and needs a TON of work. but i LOVE it !
i want to get a wood burning something for down in the basement/mancave. to heat during the far outside chicago winters when i am down in the basement watching a movie or just hanging out. so i will have a lot of questions. but lets start out easy.

what is a EPA stove ?

thanx

 

[BrotherBart]

In 1988 the EPA established emissions criteria for wood stoves. An EPA stove is one that meets those emissions criteria.

 

[DexterDay]

Will either be a Secondary burn model or have a Catalyst in it (or both!).

This helps burn the smoke to help raise efficiency and reduce emissions.

Whats your budget and whats the size of the Mancave?

This is just for "watching a movie"? Or will it take some slack of the furnace?

Do you have any wood yet? Any new stove, regardless of model, will need good seasoned wood.

Also knowing where your located will help...

Welcome to the Forum outcast

 

[Blue Vomit]

And so it begins... Welcome.

 

[outcast]

Will either be a Secondary burn model or have a Catalyst in it (or both!).

This helps burn the smoke to help raise efficiency and reduce emissions.

Whats your budget and whats the size of the Mancave?

This is just for "watching a movie"? Or will it take some slack of the furnace?

Do you have any wood yet? Any new stove, regardless of model, will need good seasoned wood.

Also knowing where your located will help...

Welcome to the Forum outcast

thanx fella's

budget. well, as cheap as possible . i actually was looking on craigslist for used stuff. if i have to buy new, i am probably screwed. the house is a bungalow. i think the basement is about 1000sf.

the basement will not be heated. except for when i am down there burning a fire. but in doing so, it will help the furnace.

yes, i have a bunch of wood. some plenty seasoned. and some fresh cut. and i am always on the lookout for wood.

i am somewhat far outside chicago.

thanx

 

[outcast]

And so it begins... Welcome.

lol, indeed . thanx

 

[outcast]

ok, so. i didn't want this thread to turn into my "what to get" thread. but wth, lets have a go at it.

my basic plan : is to put said unit in a corner of my basement. and run the pipes out a window that is right there. and up the side of the building.

 

[BrotherBart]

For temporary man cave duty a pellet stove is a good bet. Heat for watching the movie and turned off when you go up to hit the sack. Fast start and you can just shut it down.

And don't even think about running a flue pipe out a window.

 

[DexterDay]

thanx fella's

budget. well, as cheap as possible.

yes, i have a bunch of wood. some plenty seasoned.

thanx

I only ask because depending on your Flue (existing chimney with insulated liner/ or Class A outside) your Chimney/Flue may cost more than your stove. Its not uncommon for it to cost more. Especially if buying a new system....

I bought used and got my 30-NC and all needed Class A and accessories (Thimble, Clean out T, Cap, Etc) for $800. Only had 3 fires in it (All was Brand New). It was listed on Craiglist and the For Sale section here.


I agree with BrotherBart.. If only for a short time... Pellets may be the way. Cheap on CL and very convenient to operate

 

[outcast]

For temporary man cave duty a pellet stove is a good bet. Heat for watching the movie and turned off when you go up to hit the sack. Fast start and you can just shut it down.

And don't even think about running a flue pipe out a window.

ok. but then i would have to buy pellets. the wood i have is free, and i have a lot of it. i can deal with the startup and shut down issues.

why not run it out an opening that used to be a window ? its about 30x30". let me go get a pic

 

[begreen]

The question is, how do you intend to run it out this window? This sounds like a permanent chimney with a temporary solution, but lacking full details I could be wrong. Tell us the full plan.

 

[outcast]

oh-well, have to wait on the pic = dead batteries

 

[salmonhunter]

If you have access to lots of free wood I would go with a wood stove but I would put it in the main living area, and use an electric heater or something for when you go watch a movie or hang downstairs. Thats what I will be doing this upcomming winter anyways, not sure how its gonna work out but that is my plan so far.

 

[kingquad]

Is this 1000sqft basement pretty open? What's the insulation like down there?

 

[begreen]

First thing to note is that the chimney/flue piping is not going to be cheap. This is not a place for compromise. It's infrastructure that must be done safely and according to code. The cost will depend on the length of the chimney. Offsets will add to the price quickly.

It's ok to look for used stoves, but be picky and get an EPA stove. It will burn cleaner (appreciated in an urban neighborhood) and will use less fuel. For perspective note that a decent new stove can be had for $600-900. Heating from a basement can be a mixed bad depending on where the stove is located and how easy it is for the heat to travel upward to the rest of the house. If the basement is uninsulated, figure on 25-35% heat loss through the basement walls. Yes, it's that bad and will reflect in wood consumed to make the place comfortable.

Speaking of wood, do you already have several cords split and stacked? If not, buy the driest wood you can get now, stack it with a cover on the top of the stacks. Do this where the prevailing wind can blow through the stacks for quicker drying.

 

[outcast]

the basement is fully open, no walls.

yeah, i know the piping is going to be costly. but that is part of the game. i want heat down there, but not all the time.
this heat is not for the main floor, but i do know that it will heat the main floor somewhat, is it will help the main floor .
and it will most likely only be used when i have the next day off of work = hanging out, watching a movies and having some beers.

those $600 stoves, where can i see them ?

here is where i want to put the stove, in the corner were the oven is(the oven is going). and i would like to run the piping out that window, in whatever fasion you guys say. then up the side of the house and above the roof.

as far as burning "clean". we burn around here all the time, nobody cares. during the winter will be even lesser of an issue.

 

[outcast]

i have never seen this forum software before. figuring it out.

 

[Ashful]

Check the manuals of some stoves, to get an idea on what will be involved in getting a chimney set up. You're heating 1000 sq.ft. with concrete block walls, so you'll probably want a stove around 2.0 - 2.5 cu.ft. Look at the Jotul Oslo or Alderlea T5 manual for starters, and study the construction of the wall pass-thru. It's very possible you can gut that window and build a pass-thru in the opening, but I suspect you're going to run into trouble with the close proximity to the floor joists above.

This will give you a rough idea of what you're in for, before you get in too deep.

 

[DexterDay]

The Englander 30-NC can be had for $600 (on sale / certain times of the yr).

Its a 3.5 Cu Ft stove and is just about as wide as it is deep. Equates to N/S loading, or E/W loading.

Here is mine in the basement. It heats 800 sq pf the 2,200 downstairs (1,400 sq is closed off/other rooms). I can get it over 90° and 1/3 of that 800 sq is uninsulated brick. The other 2/3 is interior walls /rooms behind them). Click to enlarge

 

[begreen]

The basement walls are going to suck up heat like a vampire. So heating the whole joint from the basement is going to be a stretch until the walls get insulated. But for now it sounds like you want quick, local area heat, so my suggestion is to put up a proper 6" chimney, through the wall or if through the window, done permanently. Then you can hook up a 2 cu ft stove for now. It'll heat up a bit more quickly and should do the job. You will need dry wood to burn. If you don't have it split and stacked now, that is first priority.

What is the material covering the floor. The reason I ask is because some stoves have a stiff hearth requirement for insulation from combustibles. If that is vinyl flooring, can it be cut out, down to the cement for the stove area? That will increase your options a little bit. Right now I'm thinking an Englander 13NC, Timberwolf T19, Drolet Eastwood 1800.

 

[Wood Duck]

I'd look at a simple non-catalytic stove like an englander. Lopi makes similar stoves in about the same price range (that is what I have). Probably there are other manufacturers in the same price range. With a large basement room I'd go for a large stove like an Englander 30NC. You will probably find that you enjoy keeping the fire going more of the time than you expect, and a large stove will allow you to heat the downstairs thoroughly with some extra heat to help out with upstairs. Leave plenty of clearance from the walls because soon you will want to insulate the walls (and that adds a few inches of thickness on the inside). Within a year or two you'll be trying to heat the house 100% with wood.

 

[outcast]

ok. using the window as the pass thru. i can brick it up if thats the right way. but what about the joists ?
piping goes through wood roofs all the time. so why would i have an issue ? and it is always possible to put a new hole in the wall. but i figured the window opening would be easier. no ?

the floor is concrete, painted.

that Englander looks fine.

i know my basement is not an ideal environment for heating. but i know i can get what i want. based on my past experiences with burning wood stoves. and when i keep the basement dry(it leaks a little now&then. but i am getting a handle on it) i may add some insulation.

can i get some links to places to buy these things ? googling didn't give me much (odd).
add i am always looking on CL, but nothing good yet (also odd).
is ebay a good option ?

oh. and what about air sealing the flue when the stove is not burning ?

 

[begreen]

You can pass it through the window, just frame the opening it and honor the thimble clearances to combustibles. We can help you there as long as you do it safely.

Here's probably your best price on the Englander 13NC unless you are lucky and have one at a local hardware or big box store that they want to move.

http://www.overstockstoves.com/50epacenowos.html

 

[StihlHead]

You do not list the state that you live in. In many states, there are mandatory requirements for buying EPA rated stoves (like Oregon), or even higher rated stoves (like Washington). Check your state, region, county and city ordinances.

Currently you can get an Englander NC-30 EPA and WA state approved stove from the Huntington Park, CA Home Depot (store #1002) for 649, with free shipping (but not to AK,GU,HI,PR,or the VI). Cheaper and larger than the NC-13... I got an NC-30 a few months ago from my 'local' HD in Virginia.

 

[Ashful]

ok. using the window as the pass thru. i can brick it up if thats the right way. but what about the joists ?
piping goes through wood roofs all the time. so why would i have an issue ?

oh. and what about air sealing the flue when the stove is not burning ?

Each type of connector pipe will have required clearances, so it's just a matter of ensuring you're keeping the specified clearance for the pipe you're using. There are folks here who know a lot more than me about it, so they can advise.

As to sealing the flue, you can use a top-mount damper, but they can interfere with bird and spark screens. I suspect most folks don't bother with dampering the flue, as your stove is (mostly) sealed. A lot of folks just stuff some laundry or insulation in the bottom of the flue for the summer, and leave it open all winter.