EPA Vs Non-EPA Stove

[Auzzie Gumtree]

Just thought i would show this picture on here. I have 2 stoves - the main stove is only a couple of years old but it is not EPA compliant. The second stove downstairs is a Country Hearth 2000 which is EPA compliant. I have both stoves running using the same wood and both are closed down to minimum. The flue on the left with the smoke coming out is the non-epa stove and the one on the right is the epa stove.

They are both using exactly the same wood. It just goes to show the benefit of the EPA. I must admit i do love both stoves and the non-epa is 3 Cu Feet and can heat the whole house but uses quite a lot of wood. It also takes a while to heat up (Cast iron) but also holds the heat for a while. The Country Hearth heats up very quickly - 10 mins from lighting and the stove top is over 600 and climbing fast.

 

[BrotherBart]

Excellent comparison shot. Thanks!

 

[fossil]

Dramatic. Had they both come fully up to temperature by the time the pic was taken?

 

[Auzzie Gumtree]

Dramatic. Had they both come fully up to temperature by the time the pic was taken?

Yes they had been burning for ~ 8 hours. I normally only burn the smaller stove during shoulder season and winter nights. The 'big' one i run 24 hours through our winter June - Sept.

 

[mellow]

You should throw an (broken link removed) in that old one.

 

[Auzzie Gumtree]

I have actually had a look at this and it does look like it would work - but at ~ $500 it would actually be cheaper to sell mine and buy a new stove. But i am still going to get in touch and see what is involved.

 

[mellow]

It is a simple device to install, once he finds someone to manufacture them in bulk the price should come down a lot, just keep an eye on it for down the road. It will eat up some space in that stove but if you chop your wood small you can fit quite a bit in around it, and it will burn longer. Nifty little device.

If you are interested in it this is a thread on it: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/intensifire.120382/

 

[bholler]

how does it actually work? I have not found a description of what it actually does yet i may have just missed it i am not sure

 

[Auzzie Gumtree]

I have been in contact with Jason regards how it works. He definitely seems to know what he talking about.

"....Sorry I can't provide information on how it works for two reasons. One is to protect the intellectual property at this vulnerable time. Second is that it is pointless unless evidence is given on competence to understand the advanced chemistry and physics involved with wood gasification and subsequent combustion. Don't feel insulted by that as I haven't yet found the person that does fully understand despite the technology being in front of the best stove builders in the world, plus all the scientists and engineers associated with the wood stove decathlon........."

He also went on to say

".....Also note that your Mega would not be permitted for sale in New Zealand because although we use the same test, the threshold to pass is 1.5g/h whereas yours is 4g/hr. I am sorry to say your Mega old technology that is dirty and inefficient and does not meet the New Zealand requirement. In some parts of New Zealand there is a bylaw that lowers the threshold even further. Your Ministry is also in the middle of tightening the threshold I believe....."

 

[Kiwi Firemaster]

Well I have been a bit tardy in frequenting these pages but just found this thread.

Aussie I sent my first IntensiFire to Robert in Fairy Meadow NSW and that was installed in a Nectre Mega (a supposedly modern and compliant stove). Here is what Robert has to say, unedited I might add.

There is an export version for North America available although it is a low key approach to service your market for now. I have found your extreme cold, compared to us in the Southern Hemisphere, means people are hesitant to shut down their stoves mid winter to do the install.

Hi Jason


I drove up last night to the house and got stuck in, 2 broken drill bits later, lots of colourful language and a die grinder bit later I had installed the insert. I basically ended up using an angle grinder mostly with a grinding disk as the die grinder with a carbide burr works but uses a crap load of air and it always want to run and digs in more than the grinder. Having said that the grinder option would not be for the inexperienced operator….I was pretty OK as have used one a lot but it would have been pretty easy to mince a finger in the process. So attached is the installed unit and I sparked it up….holy chit it was noisy right from the get go, I just used two firelighters each side and some pine kindling….took about two minutes to start the jet engine and after five I was slightly concerned that it would not stop.


I stacked the wood in (still some pine) and it started to settle down, with the vent at the front I found I could close the door as there was enough air to get the thing up to heat. One thing I noticed is the thing smoked every time I opened the door regardless of what combination I did , vents full open etc….is there a way to stop this? I tried opening the door slowly, leaving it ajar for a minute but it always smoked out when I wanted to add wood.


Unfortunately it was really warm there and so not a great experiment but these are my observations thus far:


· It seemed to use less wood and the heat output definitely seemed better than before, I only started it up at 8pm and put the last few pieces on at 11pm.

· One fire lighter each side with some kindling and it is easy as to start, didn’t try the spacer and don’t think I would as it was as easy as before to start

· The fire looks different and it doesn’t rage like it did before with both vents open and it just seems to tick away

· You definitely need to add smaller pieces (diameter) as I tried one thicker on the left and the same volume but split on the right and it was a lot better and seemed to last the same time

· I closed both vents down and it did not smoke at all from the outside flue and it pretty much was ready to throw on some kindling 6 hrs later and started again so happy with that

· The instructions are good (to be honest there are a few confusing bits where I had to re-read a few times to get it spot on) but I think if you enclosed them with a template for drilling the holes, that would really help as I measured and remeasured to space them out properly and was really nervous they wouldn’t be in the right spot for it to function properly

· I put in some hardwood right at the end and loaded about half of what I would have done before and it burned through to 5:30 from say 11:30 so 6 hours and it was still glowing just and I got it going easy when I got up

Another observation is the flue was really warm and I wonder if it could be more efficient if I add one of these to the system, as the add on heater fan is next to useless:


http://www.magicheatreclaimer.com/magic-heat-reclaimers/


Anyway thanks for your help thus far and I am much happier with my fire now, just need to sort the smoking issue then I think we will be sorted……I have some video of the first fire up and you can really hear the roar…I couldn’t work out how to send as too large...I could youtube but not sure you want it out there? Could photo bucket if interested in seeing it during initial, full bore and closed down operation. Well I better get back to the kitchen planning…….


Rob

 

[Auzzie Gumtree]

Thanks for that - although it's not a very good advertisement for the product?

It looks like he struggled to install the unit - but once it was installed it seemed to work ok. I have the same heater (Nectre Mega) and as you can see for the image the front air control is very basic and is only ever used to start the fire, once the fire is engaged you should never need to use this as it lets way too much air into the firebox. The only time i ever used it, during my normal operation, was when i first stared out burning wood, pre-Hearth.com and i was burning unseasoned wood.

I think the operator is using unseasoned wood and that this was the major problem he was having with the stove. He still has smoke coming into the room every time he opens the door could this be a unseasoned wood or can it be the intensify restricting the smoke outlet?

I would really like to see a long tern user review....

 

[Kiwi Firemaster]

Well Aussie my intent was to prove the veracity of the feedback by posting the good with the bad. He is overall a happy customer and his comments support the claims I make. His smoke spillage would be rectified by extending the flue by a length (4' here or 1200mm)

Mellow above doesn't make his recommendation lightly either, he came and saw it going at the Woodstove Decathlon. He is a genuine bloody nice guy that actually sourced the stove for me for that event, I would have been lost without his help.

I also note our previous extensive private conversation in relation to your new EPA stove rather than your old one. You have all the answers you need to boost the efficiency and output of both those stoves, the old one by a significant margin. The IntensiFire will give a gain to your newer EPA stove of a similar magnitude that it provides a over your old one.

You wanted a longer term term user review, well here is one from the professor next door. His is the insert style stove that features on the front page of my website & only has my MK I original installed. He first said to me he wouldn't be much use to him as a referee because he burns the unseasoned wood from his orchard all the time. I cleaned his flue for him and have attached an image of that. I don't have huge experience as a chimney sweep, but that looks pretty clean to me for 5 years use, 4 of them with the IntensiFire. Be interested in feedback from the sweeps here. Mine gets a lot less, but I clean it annually and push the boundaries at times. I have seen one with 3/4" around the circumference during an install.

Testimonial for the IntensiFire


Jason installed the Intensifire on my woodburner about 4 years ago and it has been a success in every respect.


It has undoubtedly generated more heat from the same amount of wood fuel, so our house has been really warm over the winters since then. We use wood off our own property, which varies a lot in size, quality, and dryness, so it is almost never fully seasoned, yet it lights and heats the house very well. I have only just had the flue cleaned after all that time and found that no more than a cupful of soot had collected in the whole chimney. The version of the IntensiFire I have was the prototype and I understand from Jason that he has introduced improvements on subsequent versions. I thoroughly recommend the device.


Mike from Warkworth, New Zealand

 

[mellow]

If that is 5 years worth of buildup that is damn good if you ask me. How is the prototype holding up?

 

[Kiwi Firemaster]

Hi Mellow

It has been holding up surprisingly well although I only expected 5 years from those early models. Will upgrade him to the MK II anyway simply because it is better

Thanks for the feedback on the buildup.