Explain to me the anatomy of a wood burning stove chimney, and hear me complain a little.

[Woody Stover]

So is the liner HomeSaver Ultra Pro? I would at least get the thicker Pro, but the thin stuff might be good enough for part-time use..? I'd be assuming that I might end up heating with the stove more often than just in an emergency.
I just went ahead and put in the heavy duty HS Roundflex.

 

[Hogwildz]

Tell the sweep you want two 45 degree elbows, not one 90degree.

 

[enduring]

The Sweep told me that

So is the liner HomeSaver Ultra Pro? I would at least get the thicker Pro, but the thin stuff might be good enough for part-time use..? I'd be assuming that I might end up heating with the stove more often than just in an emergency.
I just went ahead and put in the heavy duty HS Roundflex.

I just got off the line with the Sweep. I suggested the thicker lining, and he said that that would mean going to the 304. I told him I thought there was a 316Ti that was thicker, and he wasn't aware of it.

Hogwildz, I agree with your thoughts about the 45deg. I was thinking the same thing. I asked the Sweep about this. He just got back from KC to watch basketball. He is coming over tomorrow at 1000, to talk options.

Options, include putting the stove in the corner of my dining room. He said he looked up to see if there was a code for distance from cold air intake and he didn't find one. DH does not want the stove in the house because of dirty ash. I think that it would be nice to have a fire in the living area instead of in the uninsulated basement.

The dining room option is using an abandoned chimney from the 20's or 30's. It has not been used since moving to this location in the 30's. the house is a kit house from the 20's, moved from town to the farm. It is below the roof line and has been for years I believe. The chimney looks better in the attic than the one DH wants to use.

below is the living area chimney that straddles between the kitchen and the dining room. Remove the hutch and all the junk that it holds and it would be a nice niche for the Jotul 45-f, I believe.


Here is the same chimney as seen in the attic:


There has been no inspection of that chimney. I don't know the dimensions of the interior, and if it can accommodate an insulated liner. DH and I will have to talk tomorrow when the Sweep comes over.

 

[enduring]

This is a video of the chimney, that originates in the basement, as shown in the attic. This is the original subject of this thread and the anticipated chimney for this project. I just like the looks of the other chimney, and the option for the living area install. We'll see what develops in the morning.

 

[Hogwildz]

It ain't that dirty, and if you're careful it won't be much dustier than having your windows open in the summer and the dust from outside blowing in here and there.
Looking in the attic, it looks like they sistered newer roof rafters to the old ones. There is one above that chimney that will have to be cut like the old one, and boxed in. Make sure the sweep is aware and capable of doing this.
Whoever nailed that new roof decking down, completely missed the rafter on the other side across from the chimney as you can see in the photo.

 

[Hogwildz]

This is a video of the chimney, that originates in the basement, as shown in the attic. This is the original subject of this thread and the anticipated chimney for this project. I just like the looks of the other chimney, and the option for the living area install. We'll see what develops in the morning.

Remind your husband that a happy wife = a happy life.

 

[enduring]

Remind your husband that a happy wife = a happy life.

The opposite is true too

 

[enduring]

It ain't that dirty, and if you're careful it won't be much dustier than having your windows open in the summer and the dust from outside blowing in here and there.
Looking in the attic, it looks like they sistered newer roof rafters to the old ones. There is one above that chimney that will have to be cut like the old one, and boxed in. Make sure the sweep is aware and capable of doing this.
Whoever nailed that new roof decking down, completely missed the rafter on the other side across from the chimney as you can see in the photo.

Yes, I saw all those missed nails too! Ok I will show the photos to the Sweep. I am editing the post above to include a working video of the original option for chimney use.

 

[begreen]

He said he looked up to see if there was a code for distance from cold air intake and he didn't find one.

It's mechanical code, not fire code. Search in old threads for the actual chapter and verse.

 

[bholler]

The Sweep told me that

I just got off the line with the Sweep. I suggested the thicker lining, and he said that that would mean going to the 304. I told him I thought there was a 316Ti that was thicker, and he wasn't aware of it.

Hogwildz, I agree with your thoughts about the 45deg. I was thinking the same thing. I asked the Sweep about this. He just got back from KC to watch basketball. He is coming over tomorrow at 1000, to talk options.

Options, include putting the stove in the corner of my dining room. He said he looked up to see if there was a code for distance from cold air intake and he didn't find one. DH does not want the stove in the house because of dirty ash. I think that it would be nice to have a fire in the living area instead of in the uninsulated basement.

The dining room option is using an abandoned chimney from the 20's or 30's. It has not been used since moving to this location in the 30's. the house is a kit house from the 20's, moved from town to the farm. It is below the roof line and has been for years I believe. The chimney looks better in the attic than the one DH wants to use.

below is the living area chimney that straddles between the kitchen and the dining room. Remove the hutch and all the junk that it holds and it would be a nice niche for the Jotul 45-f, I believe.
View attachment 258185

Here is the same chimney as seen in the attic:
View attachment 258186View attachment 258187

There has been no inspection of that chimney. I don't know the dimensions of the interior, and if it can accommodate an insulated liner. DH and I will have to talk tomorrow when the Sweep comes over.

Are there other sweeps in your area? This sweep doesn't seem to be very experienced. He doesn't know heavy wall is available in 316. He doesn't know the 10' rule for air returns. What else doesn't he know?

 

[enduring]

Are there other sweeps in your area? This sweep doesn't seem to be very experienced. He doesn't know heavy wall is available in 316. He doesn't know the 10' rule for air returns. What else doesn't he know?

Well, Sweep will be over in a few hours to discuss the project. I will ask about the brand of pre-insulated flex that he is specifying.

One thing about the basement install, is that there is not a cold air return that I can find, nor can DH. As I looked on various threads about distances from cold air returns, the topic of leaky duct work popped up. I know our duct work is leaky. It was put in decades ago, probably in the 70's.

On the threads I found about the 10' rule from cold air returns the topic of CO came up and that using cold air return to circulate stove heated air around the house could also circulate CO around the house, increasing the CO danger. Yet wouldn't the danger already be there, if the stove was near a cold air return or 10' away.

What is OAK? is is Outside Air K---?

I talked to my brother who works for a large HVAC company, and never works with wood burning stuff, and he didn't know about the cold air return. Stated he'd have to look the code up. If you don't know what to ask, how can you ask???

My brother said if I wanted he could come over and help me install a DIY chimney, along with his HVAC apprentice son. He would charge a labor fee, but said he'd be reasonable. I might want to do this.

Other option would be to let the Sweep do the install, but if I don't like the liner specs, ask if I could order my own liner and go with the rest of the estimate. He did say he doesn't like to work with the add on liners because they snag more readily. I have seen pre insulated liners that have the outer covering of aluminum and a liner with steal on the outer layer. I would like a 1/2" insulation, as there are combustable next to the brick chimney, as it goes through the floor, ceiling, and the roof. Am I right in seeing this as a problem with wood next to brick chimney, needing insulation of the flex liner?

There are a lot of questions here, so to summarize:

1. What are preferred specs of pre-insulated flex liners 6"ID?
2. CO danger exists regardless of proximity to cold air return, correct?
3. What is OAK?
4. What is the opinion of ready made insulated liners vs on the ground lining prior to installation?
5. I could not find a thicker walled Home Saver Pro, that was pre insulated. Woody Stover, yesterday at 2:16pm, above, mentioned preferring the Home Saver Pro, over the UltraPro, because it was thicker. Is there a HS PRO that is pre insulated?
6. I would like a 1/2" insulation, as there are combustable next to the brick chimney, as it goes through the floor, ceiling, and the roof. Am I right in seeing this as a problem with wood next to brick chimney, needing insulation of the flex liner?

 

[bholler]

Well, Sweep will be over in a few hours to discuss the project. I will ask about the brand of pre-insulated flex that he is specifying.

One thing about the basement install, is that there is not a cold air return that I can find, nor can DH. As I looked on various threads about distances from cold air returns, the topic of leaky duct work popped up. I know our duct work is leaky. It was put in decades ago, probably in the 70's.

On the threads I found about the 10' rule from cold air returns the topic of CO came up and that using cold air return to circulate stove heated air around the house could also circulate CO around the house, increasing the CO danger. Yet wouldn't the danger already be there, if the stove was near a cold air return or 10' away.

What is OAK? is is Outside Air K---?

I talked to my brother who works for a large HVAC company, and never works with wood burning stuff, and he didn't know about the cold air return. Stated he'd have to look the code up. If you don't know what to ask, how can you ask???

My brother said if I wanted he could come over and help me install a DIY chimney, along with his HVAC apprentice son. He would charge a labor fee, but said he'd be reasonable. I might want to do this.

Other option would be to let the Sweep do the install, but if I don't like the liner specs, ask if I could order my own liner and go with the rest of the estimate. He did say he doesn't like to work with the add on liners because they snag more readily. I have seen pre insulated liners that have the outer covering of aluminum and a liner with steal on the outer layer. I would like a 1/2" insulation, as there are combustable next to the brick chimney, as it goes through the floor, ceiling, and the roof. Am I right in seeing this as a problem with wood next to brick chimney, needing insulation of the flex liner?

There are a lot of questions here, so to summarize:

1. What are preferred specs of pre-insulated flex liners 6"ID?
2. CO danger exists regardless of proximity to cold air return, correct?
3. What is OAK?
4. What is the opinion of ready made insulated liners vs on the ground lining prior to installation?
5. I could not find a thicker walled Home Saver Pro, that was pre insulated. Woody Stover, yesterday at 2:16pm, above, mentioned preferring the Home Saver Pro, over the UltraPro, because it was thicker. Is there a HS PRO that is pre insulated?
6. I would like a 1/2" insulation, as there are combustable next to the brick chimney, as it goes through the floor, ceiling, and the roof. Am I right in seeing this as a problem with wood next to brick chimney, needing insulation of the flex liner?

1 it doesn't really have to be preinsulated but the only ones I would avoid at all costs is the 2ply smooth wall stuff. Other than that thicker is better.
2. Yes there is always danger. But having a return to close drastically increases that risk.
3. Outside air kit.
4. Either is perfectly fine
5. I don't know of any heavy wall liners that are preinsulated. But I know Copperfield/olympia makes their midweight liner insulated
6. You are correct there

 

[Woody Stover]

I pulled the liner up from the bottom with a nose cone. I laid it out inside and applied the insulation and mesh sock that keeps it from snagging and tearing. Probably would have been easier to drop it from the top, and I think that is how they usually do it, with gravity assisting. The HD liner is heavy, like 8 lbs/foot.

 

[begreen]

I talked to my brother who works for a large HVAC company, and never works with wood burning stuff, and he didn't know about the cold air return. Stated he'd have to look the code up. If you don't know what to ask, how can you ask???

Mechanical code 601.5

Insulation

Hello all! I’ve posted before about moving heat from a basement (heated with a Woodstock Progress Hybrid) up two floors to the bedrooms on the upper level. I’ve been considering cutting holes in the hard wood floors on the main level above the wood stove for vents, but I’m concerned that those...

www.hearth.com

 

[enduring]

Met with the Sweep today. DH was there too. I think things will go well. I’ll keep you all updated. Might have the installation next Thursday.

 

[Jackfre]

Just a note on the "Type 1" appliances. Since '92 when the minimum efficiency standards on GAS central appliances went to 78%. The old furnaces ran about 60%. You can cover up a lot of venting problems with a really high stack temp it was with this code change that the chimney relining business took off, and rightfully so. Anyway there are 4 CATEGORIES of appliances I-IV. Cat I were regulated by the NFGC, NFPA 54. Negative pressure vent system (B-vent or other ) and a stack temp 140* above dew point. Cat II & III I can't recall exactly the requirements having been aways from it all of a couple decades. It happens. Cat IV are your condensing high efficiency positive pressure appliances venting with plastic pipe. That plastic, typically such 40 pvc is NOT and approved vent system and there are tens of millions of then installed in American homes. I suspect it will be the mother of all recalls someday. There are better and proper polypropylene systems out there today made for these flues.
To our OP, I think you have made the right calls. Happy Heating!

 

[enduring]

Thank you Jackfre. This is interesting about the PVC venting on high efficiency furnaces. Are typical high efficiency propane house furnaces the CAT IV? If so, our furnace is probably installed in the way you say is not approved.

Today is the final day before install of stove. DH and I have a deep freeze to unload and move!

 

[enduring]

Install is postponed until next week, due to supply shipment. Hope for install next Thursday.

Everyone stay well, and keep washing those hands.