Fan Speeds on Harmans...

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Tonyray

Minister of Fire
I looked for this but couldn't find on here.
does the Fan blower speed affect pellet consumption?
see a lot of users have the distibution fan on high..
I specified Harmans but I guess applies to most Pellet stoves..
 
I looked for this but couldn't find on here.
does the Fan blower speed affect pellet consumption?
see a lot of users have the distibution fan on high..
I specified Harmans but I guess applies to most Pellet stoves..

No change in pellet consumption, only in heat distribution.
 
The fan is an anemic 135 cfm on the p series. Probably why most leave on high.
 
Pellet consumption stays the same. I leave my fan on low. Do most people keep it on high? Maybe I should try it on high?
 
Fan speed ABSOLUTELY affects pellet consumption if it's in "room temp" mode. If the sensor is calling for heat, and the fan isn't putting it into the room, where do you think the heat is going? The stove is gonna feed more pellets than necessary to heat the space and satisfy the setpoint.
 
Fan speed ABSOLUTELY affects pellet consumption if it's in "room temp" mode. If the sensor is calling for heat, and the fan isn't putting it into the room, where do you think the heat is going? The stove is gonna feed more pellets than necessary to heat the space and satisfy the setpoint.
. If the sensor is calling for heat, and the fan isn't putting it into the room, where do you think the heat is going?
why wouldn't the fan be blowing the heat in the room if the probe calling for heat?
 
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Fan speed ABSOLUTELY affects pellet consumption if it's in "room temp" mode. If the sensor is calling for heat, and the fan isn't putting it into the room, where do you think the heat is going? The stove is gonna feed more pellets than necessary to heat the space and satisfy the setpoint.

Ok. I can see where that would occur IF the sensing probe was far enough away from the unit. If it were close, I doubt that would be the case. For the most part, the HI/LOW is DISTRIBUTION fan speed only.
 
Ok. I can see where that would occur IF the sensing probe was far enough away from the unit. If it were close, I doubt that would be the case. For the most part, the HI/LOW is DISTRIBUTION fan speed only.
I'm with DAKSY on this one......sorry P38X2...this may be the first time we've disagreed?? !!!
 
Here's how I look at it. The fan is what's extracting probably 90% of the heat from the stove. Let's say there was no fan. That would leave only (yes, a natural convection current would develop around the stove) the radiant heat from the stove to heat the space, just like a wood stove. You'd most definitely burn more pellets trying to heat your home that way as your exhaust temps would skyrocket. High exhaust temps = lost BTU's, especially with the double walled PV. Harman describes a similar situation in the manual. I believe when the stove is in "stove temp/manual" and the dial set at 4 or under, the fan will not come on, and thus not blow heat into the room. Again, wasted pellet consumption. Turn the fan on and the stove's efficiency goes up dramatically via the utilization of the heat exchanger.

Let's say the fan was full of pet hair etc. You'd have severely compromised airflow (not unlike a clean fan on low). The stove doesn't know this, right? The only thing it knows (in our scenario) is what the temp of the room is, and what the operator wants the temp to be. If the heat isn't getting out of the stove and into the room, it will take much longer to satisfy the setpoint, and in the process many more pellets will be burned.

To me, this seems like a basic, "pellet stove 101" concept, but I have great respect for you guy's knowledge. Am I missing something here? Maybe I'm not understanding the OP's question.

In my mind, the higher the fan speed, the more heat can be stripped off the stove and put into the room, rather than outside. No fan= horrible efficiency. Low fan/pet hair impregnated fan=reduced efficiency. High fan=maximized efficiency and the least amount of wasted heat out the vent.
 
I'll give my 2 cents on this one...

In the Stove temp (auto) mode the ESP is looking or a set exhaust temperature nothing else... say 400 degrees. If the fan speed is on low its not blowing too much heat out of the stove to heat a cold room so the stove only burns a normal amount of pellets to maintain the 400 degree exhaust temp.

Now say you throw your fan speed on high now your stove is pulllng much more air through it to heat the room. This will pull more heat out of the stove therefore to maintain a 400 degree exhaust temp its going to have to burn more pellets. That extra hot air its blowing out has to come from somewhere and its not going out the back because ESP temp stays the same.

I'm not saying the difference is huge but I notice it on cold days.
 
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Here's how I look at it. The fan is what's extracting probably 90% of the heat from the stove. Let's say there was no fan. That would leave only (yes, a natural convection current would develop around the stove) the radiant heat from the stove to heat the space, just like a wood stove. You'd most definitely burn more pellets trying to heat your home that way as your exhaust temps would skyrocket. High exhaust temps = lost BTU's, especially with the double walled PV. Harman describes a similar situation in the manual. I believe when the stove is in "stove temp/manual" and the dial set at 4 or under, the fan will not come on, and thus not blow heat into the room. Again, wasted pellet consumption. Turn the fan on and the stove's efficiency goes up dramatically via the utilization of the heat exchanger.

Let's say the fan was full of pet hair etc. You'd have severely compromised airflow (not unlike a clean fan on low). The stove doesn't know this, right? The only thing it knows (in our scenario) is what the temp of the room is, and what the operator wants the temp to be. If the heat isn't getting out of the stove and into the room, it will take much longer to satisfy the setpoint, and in the process many more pellets will be burned.

To me, this seems like a basic, "pellet stove 101" concept, but I have great respect for you guy's knowledge. Am I missing something here? Maybe I'm not understanding the OP's question.

In my mind, the higher the fan speed, the more heat can be stripped off the stove and put into the room, rather than outside. No fan= horrible efficiency. Low fan/pet hair impregnated fan=reduced efficiency. High fan=maximized efficiency and the least amount of wasted heat out the vent.

agree with this on the manual setting. Even Harman states this is just for a pretty fire and not much else.
 
If the sensor is calling for heat, and the fan isn't putting it into the room, where do you think the ?heat is going?
agree with this on the manual setting. Even Harman states this is just for a pretty fire and not much else.
sort of like the AC in your car....
I think we have all noticed that it always feels colder[ for longer periods] when the blower fan is around half as opposed to full throttle..
the blower fan is pushing the cold air out faster than it can recycle the cabin inside air..
soooooooo, maybe does use more pellets if fan is on high....in any mode, auto or manual... is that the concensus here?
 
What I'm suggesting is if the fan is on LOW, you'll use more pellets and your stove will be less efficient.

Yes, the air temps off the exchanger will go up, but not offset the reduction of heat being put into the room by the lower air flow. Again, look it it in the extremes and keep in mind the 2 closed loops of a pellet stove (BTU's in the combustion loop, and BTU's in the convection loop) and how the stove gets BTUs from one place to another.
 
What I'm suggesting is if the fan is on LOW, you'll use more pellets and your stove will be less efficient.

Yes, the air temps off the exchanger will go up, but not offset the reduction of heat being put into the room by the lower air flow. Again, look it it in the extremes and keep in mind the 2 closed loops of a pellet stove (BTU's in the combustion loop, and BTU's in the convection loop) and how the stove gets BTUs from one place to another.

I usually use room mode/auto and run the fan about half speed....your saying running it higher will use less pellets? only reason I could see that it would use less is that it would get to the set probe temp sooner..... my Harman dealer said to run stove mode in 30 degree temps and lower and room mode 40 degrees and above....[nothing to do with our discussion but thought I'd throw it out there while I was thinkin about it...]
 
I usually use room mode/auto and run the fan about half speed....your saying running it higher will use less pellets?

What he's saying is that on low fan settings you are wasting most your heat out of the exhaust because very little is making it into the room, basically inefficient use of pellets meaning you will have to burn more for the SAME heat. This is mainly the case for stove temp mode on manual.
 
What he's saying is that on low fan settings you are wasting most your heat out of the exhaust because very little is making it into the room, basically inefficient use of pellets meaning you will have to burn more for the SAME heat. This is mainly the case for stove temp mode on manual.
ok... that I understand and agree.....Stove temp /manual.... .what about stove temp/auto and room temp auto/manual? basically, the other 3 modes of operation in regards to running fan on high
 
ok... that I understand and agree.....Stove temp /manual.... .what about stove temp/auto and room temp auto/manual? basically, the other 3 modes of operation in regards to running fan on high


Stove temp - 100% driven the the ESP (temperature probe in stove exhaust flow). Temp dial corresponds to a fixed ESP temperature. For simplicity, let's assume a setting of 3 = 300 degrees ESP temp. The stove will ramp feed up/down to always be as close to 300 degrees as possible. In stove temp the stove doesn't care what the room temp is, only the ESP temp. The room might be 60 or 90 degrees doesn't matter, all it cares about is maintaining an ESP temp of 300.The stove will not shut off in stove temp regardless of whether the igniter switch is set to auto or manual. Stove temp, switch to manual - I call this fireplace mode. Distribution fan will not turn on unless the temp knob is set to 5 or higher. This is designed to give a nice fire, but not a ton of heat in the room. Most goes up the chimney. Stove temp, switch to auto - distribution fan operates normally to push heat into the room, regardless of stove or room temperature. There is a caveat to this, if you have your room temp set to 1 (very low) then the distribution blower might shut off because the ESP temperature is below the lowest setting allowed for the distribution blower to run.

Room Temp - The stove is 100% driven by the room temp sensor. The stove will automatically adjust feed and ESP temp to achieve the room temp set point. Once the set point is reached, the stove will slowly throttle up/down to maintain temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside, your heat load is high and the stove will feed more pellets to get the ESP temp hot enough to maintain room temperature set point. If it's 60 degrees outside, the stove will feed as little as possible and keep as low an ESP temp as possible to maintain room temperature. Igniter switch to manual, stove will go into maintenance burn in between calls for heat - prevents igniter cycling, might use a few more pellets in this mode...maybe... Igniter switch to auto, stove will initiate the shut down process in between calls for heat - igniter could cycle several times per day, depends on set point and heat load. If there is a call for heat during the shutdown process, the stove will start feeding pellets provided that the ESP temperature didn't go below the low limit. So, on really cold days, the stove might not shut off, even if it's on auto.

The key to getting room temp to work is placement or "calibration" of the room temp sensor. This is a tricky subject due to the sheer number of variables that can contribute to success or lack there of. Ideally, you want the tip of the probe in an area that is not subject to drafts, direct sun or areas that could lead to heat soak from the stove or areas that make it tough to calibrate like basement concrete floors. Ideally, you want the probe on an inside wall (no drafts), away from concrete and fairly far from the stove, even if you need to extend the wire. If the probe is where you are, then the stove can work to keep an even temp that works for you. If your set on having the dial temp correspond with the room temp, you will need to experiment for a while until you find the most reliable place for the probe to stay.

Alternatively, you can place the probe in a "stable" location and simply adjust the temp knob to achieve the most comfortable room temperature. Maybe 78 on the temp knob gives you a steady 72 degrees, no worries, just keep in mind that the probe reads 6 degrees high and do the simple math if you feel like adjusting the temp.


That was taken for the forum here.

In stove temp auto, the stove is just keeping an ESP temp so if you have it on low its not pumping out much heat, turn the fans to high (while keeping the same temp setting) then it will be pumping out heat therefore have to burn more fuel to maintain that set ESP temp.

Room temp is far more variable and without seeing the programming I can't give you a definite answer. However the fans are there for a reason.... I would keep them as high as you can tolerate as this is getting heat out the stove faster. In my eyes this will always be more fuel efficient.
 
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The faster the room comes to the set temp the faster the stove can shut down or idle. The stove has two ways to get the room to temp. Get screaming hot and put more heat out the flue or circulate more of the heat off the exchanger keeping the flue temp lower. Probably making more mud than water with this variation.
 
What I'm suggesting is if the fan is on LOW, you'll use more pellets and your stove will be less efficient.

Yes, the air temps off the exchanger will go up, but not offset the reduction of heat being put into the room by the lower air flow. Again, look it it in the extremes and keep in mind the 2 closed loops of a pellet stove (BTU's in the combustion loop, and BTU's in the convection loop) and how the stove gets BTUs from one place to another.

P38X2,
Your theory is correct.
Same as when we're making hot mix asphalt. Open the draft, heat up stack, takes longer to produce the hot mix, close draft, heat stays in drum and heats the aggregates quicker.
Just substitute the draft opening and closing, for the convection fan on high or low. Put the heat in the room, or up the stack. Plant uses more natural gas when the damper is open.
Our stoves will burn more fuel with lower convection fan speed as more heat is going out the stack, rather than into the room.
Same thing, only different :)
 
No change in pellet consumption, only in heat distribution.

I'd probably go with Dasky the edge on this one. Truth is, we probably don't have enough empirical data to come up with a 100% correct answer, but we have fun with it anyway...

P38X2, where you might be missing something is in the fundamental design of the ESP; exhaust temp drives Harman Stoves. Whether you have the fan on Hi or Low, the target EXHAUST temp is what the stove will strive to achieve/maintain. Fan on Hi will strip more heat, forcing the stove to feed MORE pellets to maintain ESP temp, but room temp will be achieved QUICKER. Fan on Low will strip less heat, forcing the stove to feed LESS pellets to maintain ESP temp, but target temp will be achieved SLOWER. So, basically, they offset. At what point the lines intersect on a graph is the devil in the details, probably somewhere in the +/- 5% off center range. We'll never know...

As I've said before, if we focus on efficiency and pellet consumption, we'll make ourselves nuts. The goal is comfort and resulting savings whether you believe comfortable is 78 degrees or 65 degrees or somewhere in between. Fan on Hi might be what's necessary to achieve your ideal of comfort based on the heat loss of your house or the rooms you need to heat at the other end of the house. Fan on Low will give more even temps in closer proximity to the stove.
 
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Hey, we are saving a lot of $$$$ over oil or propain and now maybe even natural gas. The stoves are doing it dependably and without to much fuss, except maybe this thread.:)
 
Hey, we are saving a lot of $$$$ over oil or propain and now maybe even natural gas. The stoves are doing it dependably and without to much fuss, except maybe this thread.:)
Yep... your right...
at the end of the day[or this thread, whatever comes 1st] we're all saving money regardless if you blow high or blow low..
over 1500.00 yr for oil to keep the house at 66 degrees vrs 229.00 ton pellets x 3 keeping it at 73.
[on medium fan]....
 
One of the significant features of pellets stoves is their high efficiency. Without closed loop control that efficiency goes out the vent. The purpose of a stove, or any space heater, is to heat that space not to heat itself. The closed loop must include sensing the temperature of the space in order to be efficient.
I have never understood why anybody would want to run a stove in a mode that does not regulate room temperature.
 
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One of the significant features of pellets stoves is their high efficiency. Without closed loop control that efficiency goes out the vent. The purpose of a stove, or any space heater, is to heat that space not to heat itself. The closed loop must include sensing the temperature of the space in order to be efficient.
I have never understood why anybody would want to run a stove in a mode that does not regulate room temperature.
I use room temp mode... flame never goes out 40 degrees.or below anyways...
 
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