Federal Airtight FA224 Smoking/Chugging during hot burns

[Mike.O]

Hello guys, New here, looks to be a great site! I use lots of other forums (Orange Tractor Talks, F150, S10 Forum, ect...) and look forward to my time here and all the knowledge to be gained.

A little background on my setup and my problems I've been having. I have a older Federal Airtight (Dutchwest) FA224CCL catalytic stove set up in the down stairs of my house. I lined the chimney with the insulated stainless liner and have +/- 25' of height.

I'm getting a fairly large amount of "surging" or "chugging" smoke when burning a hot fire with the air supply about 3 turns open. As the fire builds up and begins to get the stove heated up im getting a surging smoke from the air baffles. The problem is present in both CAT burns and non CAT burns.

It seems to be opposite of what i have read on hear is a common problem. Seems like most people get smoke back when their stoves are shut down. I have the opposite, smoke only when hot and significantly open air supplies. Chimney has just been cleaned.

 

[begreen]

If you open a nearby window a bit does the chugging go away?

 

[Mike.O]

If you open a nearby window a bit does the chugging go away?

I will try to get the stove to do it and open the window and see what happens

I believe you are getting at the there's not enough draft in the room to satisfy the stoves demand? I never considered that since the house is 40 years old and a raised ranch with open staircase and marginal insulation at best. The stove has open air flow from over 1200 SF.

 

[Mike.O]

If you open a nearby window a bit does the chugging go away?

No luck. Opened window next to stove for a few minutes while the stove was doing it and no change.

 

[begreen]

No luck. Opened window next to stove for a few minutes while the stove was doing it and no change.

OK, good to know. Problem solving is often a process of elimination. Has the wood been well seasoned and is it fully dried? When was the flue system last cleaned? Have you checked the chimney cap for plugging?

Moving on to the stove. Has the catalyst been checked for plugging? Is the baffle still in good shape and not burned out?

 

[Mike.O]

OK, good to know. Problem solving is often a process of elimination. Has the wood been well seasoned and is it fully dried? When was the flue system last cleaned? Have you checked the chimney cap for plugging?

Moving on to the stove. Has the catalyst been checked for plugging? Is the baffle still in good shape and not burned out?

Appreciate the help! The wood has not been checked with a moisture meter, but its got about 10 months on it, so its on the edge of ideal but I would lean towards saying that would not be whats causing it, but I'm not positive. Flue cleaned less than one cord ago so I believe no issues there. And it has been doing it since day one so I would think that reinforces that there is no blockage.

Also the CAT is brand new this year. That was my initial diagnosis and when this all started so i replaced the CAT and got no change. I have not thoroughly checked the baffle.

I have been burning the stove with the baffle open, not engaging the cat. No difference in smoking with cat engaged or not, and the stove sucks in cat mode. It operates as it should (Stove around 450-500, CAT at 1200-1400) but it heats the room significantly worse with the cat engaged.

 

[Hogwildz]

Any chance the lower piping area is creo'd up and the hiring burning temps are cooking off the creo?
Unless you're burning pine or poplar, 10 months is no where near ready to burn.

 

[Mike.O]

Any chance the lower piping area is creo'd up and the hiring burning temps are cooking off the creo?
Unless you're burning pine or poplar, 10 months is no where near ready to burn.

This is very plausible. The fireplace/chimney are built out so it is on a 45 degree angle from the exterior wall/chimney. The lowest 6'-8' of liner is skewed or sloped to connect the chimney built out fireplace. This section of liner was very difficult to get a good clean on. The brushes kept getting hung up.

Most of the wood is maple. Split and covered since February. Maybe that is contributing to my problems.

 

[redktmrider]

Most of the wood is maple. Split and covered since February

Get a moisture meter. Bring a split inside , let it set in the house for 24 hours. Then make a new split and test the freshly exposed surface. Unless the maple was standing dead, I doubt it is dry.

 

[begreen]

Do you have a buddy or neighbor that might have a box of fully seasoned wood you could try?

 

[Mike.O]

Do you have a buddy or neighbor that might have a box of fully seasoned wood you could try?

Yep gunna get a bit from my dad to try tomorrow.

Also ordered a moisture meter from Amazon.

It's looking like it's greeen wood related. My mistake for thinking 10 months stacked and tarped would be enough. Anxious to see what the moisture meter says.

 

[begreen]

For an accurate reading, test on the face of freshly split wood and not the end grain. Actually you can go out and resplit a couple splits right now. Put the freshly exposed wood up against your cheek. If it feels cool and damp, it is. If you bang the two splits together and they go thud instead of a more musical tone, then that is another indication of dampness in the wood.

 

[Sodbuster]

This is very plausible. The fireplace/chimney are built out so it is on a 45 degree angle from the exterior wall/chimney. The lowest 6'-8' of liner is skewed or sloped to connect the chimney built out fireplace. This section of liner was very difficult to get a good clean on. The brushes kept getting hung up.

Most of the wood is maple. Split and covered since February. Maybe that is contributing to my problems.

Much of it depends on how it's covered, if you have it wrapped like a Christmas gift, you'll get very little drying. Better to cover just the top.

 

[Mike.O]

Much of it depends on how it's covered, if you have it wrapped like a Christmas gift, you'll get very little drying. Better to cover just the top.

Yep. Covered top only.

 

[begreen]

Yep. Covered top only.
View attachment 218314

That looks densely packed. What dries wood out quickly is wind blowing through the stacks. Sun helps too. The stacks loaded there might dry out more quickly if they were no more than 2 rows deep and oriented so that the prevailing winds can blow through the stacks. That said, maple is going to want more time, especially in a humid environment.

 

[Mike.O]

Moisture meter came in today!

Oak seasoned 10 months --- 19%
Maple seasoned 10 months --- 18.3%

Numbers look good. Moisture meter claims to be accurate to 0.5%. I checked to a 2x4 and got 7.5%. Seems about right???

So I'm feeling good about my wood but disappointed that it's not the cause of my smoking and I'm now even more unsure as to what's causing it.

 

[Hogwildz]

There must be special oak or air up that way, cause no oak down here will dry that much in 10 months, nor will any oak here dry in the same time as maple.

 

[Mike.O]

There must be special oak or air up that way, cause no oak down here will dry that much in 10 months, nor will any oak here dry in the same time as maple.

It's possible it is the moisture meter. It's just a $20 one off Amazon but I think the 2x4 seemed to be a reasonable reading.

Did as you all said yesterday. Brought some large chunks inside yesterday, split it today and stuck the meter right in the split faces. Did it numerous times to numerous pieces.

I'm as surprised as you are.

 

[Mike.O]

Maybe the 7.5% on the 2x4 is low after some googling????

Maybe it's the meter???

 

[begreen]

Was the wood room temp? Were the probes pushed very firmly into the wood?

Back to the stove, did you examine the components under the cat? How does the baffle look?

 

[Mike.O]

Ok so I retested some new wood. I pushed the living s*** out of the meter into the wood and what do you know.... some more reasonable readings. Though I was gunna break the darn meter. Here's what I believe to a little more accurate.

Maple.....


Oak...

 

[Hogwildz]

That looks better.

 

[defiant3]

A stove that old if it's never been rebuilt is likely leakingin all kinds of places. Do you have trouble controlling the temp.? Weird things happen hwen air can come wherever it wants, and also smoke may exit in strange places if the stove isn't sealed. Those haven't been made since the 80s so who knows??

 

[RobbieB]

If you want to see what dry wood will do, just get a bundle at the grocery store and see. Expensive but you will know and see the difference now.

 

[Phoenix Hatchling]

New to the conversation, but is there a chance that if he has such a sharp angle at the bottom of the pipe that he feels like he’s getting stuck, could the ash/creo have caused a blockage to the draw? Just seems like that would cause the more chugging sound.