fire in the boiler room

[woodsmaster]

Well I was going to wait until I could post a picture, but I'm having trouble with my camera so here's the story. I was recently filling one of may 500 gal. vertical storage tanks. I had been

checking the water level threw a plug on top of a t at the very top of the tank with a flashlight. It was getting close to the top about 1 1/2 ' from the top when I decided to check it again.

Not thinking I took a bic lighter from my pocket and used that for light to see. The next thing I Know A blue fame shot out the top for about 3 seconds whooooosh and I was down the ladder

and on the opposite side of the boiler room in about 1/2 a second. I have methane gas in my water ! Luckily I still have my eye lashes. It left a brown spot on the drywall 1 1/2'

above the tank about 4 " round and a water vapor stain in about a 3' circle above the tank. What an adrenalin rush !

 

[TheSteelFabricator]

What was the brown spot from? lol.

 

[woodsmaster]

What was the brown spot from? lol.

Burnt drywall

 

[homebrewz]

Glad everything turned out OK! Methane in groundwater is not that uncommon. I know folks who can light their faucet after its been sitting for a while and the gas builds up.

 

[muncybob]

I guess you are OK after a change of underwear!!??

We hear about methane in drinking water a lot esp after the natural gas drilling going on here.

 

[bigburner]

If I had that kind of water I would skip the wood thing, build me accumulator and inject it in to the boiler every so often.

 

[woodsmaster]

If I had that kind of water I would skip the wood thing, build me accumulator and inject it in to the boiler every so often.

I've heard that people have tried to harvest it, but there's not enough to make it worth while.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

What was the brown spot from? lol.

Heh heh

 

[stee6043]

Burning water....you could be next on 60 minutes. Surely there is a story here! Fracking? Divine intervention? ha. Lesson number 2...keep batteries in mini mag light!

 

[woodsmaster]

Burning water....you could be next on 60 minutes. Surely there is a story here! Fracking? Divine intervention? ha. Lesson number 2...keep batteries in mini mag light!

No fracking around here. Used to live down the road a few miles and we would light the gas that came out of the faucet for fun. Heard that the guy who used to live here did the same.
Just had a brain fart.

 

[4hiswork]

Wow very interesting story! I know at the chemical plant I work at we have lines and tanks that still "sniff" hot after cleaning for long periods of time... it seems that the steel absorbs some of the flammable material. Was your tank new?? I have heard of flammable water, I would have loved to been a fly on the wall to see that one! Glad you are safe and did not burn down your house.

 

[ihookem]

Wouldn't the methane make the water stink? Never heard such talk. Anyway you would think if there was methane you coul dat least heat something with it. Couldn't you separate it?

 

[Singed Eyebrows]

Well I was going to wait until I could post a picture, but I'm having trouble with my camera so here's the story. I was recently filling one of may 500 gal. vertical storage tanks. I had been

checking the water level threw a plug on top of a t at the very top of the tank with a flashlight. It was getting close to the top about 1 1/2 ' from the top when I decided to check it again.

Not thinking I took a bic lighter from my pocket and used that for light to see. The next thing I Know A blue fame shot out the top for about 3 seconds whooooosh and I was down the ladder

and on the opposite side of the boiler room in about 1/2 a second. I have methane gas in my water ! Luckily I still have my eye lashes. It left a brown spot on the drywall 1 1/2'

above the tank about 4 " round and a water vapor stain in about a 3' circle above the tank. What an adrenalin rush !

JT, I'm thinkin a second youtube video here. Glad you are ok. I believe hydrogen will separate out, this burns in a split second though, so it probably was methane, Randy

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Wouldn't the methane make the water stink? Never heard such talk. Anyway you would think if there was methane you coul dat least heat something with it. Couldn't you separate it?

Methane doesn't smell bad.

edit: in fact, methane itself is odorless.

 

[JustWood]

Gas in water is very common.
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/agdex10840

 

[2.beans]

What was the brown spot from? lol.

thats funny

 

[Gary_602z]

Are you sure this guy wasn't in the tank?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFLw8aH-M2w

Gary

 

[skfire]

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/01/144549287/earthquake-strikes-near-ohio-fracking-site

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/12/31/40-earthquake-ohio_n_1177904.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080869/Ohio-earthquake-Fears-grow-caused-oil-drilling.html

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/01/us/ohio-earthquake/index.html

and

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/geosurvey/html/geo_f03/tabid/8307/Default.aspx

 

[JustWood]

http://www.npr.org/2012/01/01/144549287/earthquake-strikes-near-ohio-fracking-site

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/12/31/40-earthquake-ohio_n_1177904.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2080869/Ohio-earthquake-Fears-grow-caused-oil-drilling.html

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/01/us/ohio-earthquake/index.html

and

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/geosurvey/html/geo_f03/tabid/8307/Default.aspx

How much pressure do you think the gas that came out of these wells was under before extraction. Man and/or machinery can't replicate that kind of pressure.
There are erthquakes in this area all the time. Chech the Ashtabula,OH USGS website.

 

[woodsmaster]

Back 15 years ago, I presume before any fracking We still had gas in the water. We used to light it right out of the faucet for kicks.
couple of times had some pretty large flames come out.

 

[skfire]

How much pressure do you think the gas that came out of these wells was under before extraction. Man and/or machinery can't replicate that kind of pressure.
There are erthquakes in this area all the time. Chech the Ashtabula,OH USGS website.

The issue is not the gas extraction but rather the injection of the waste frack fluid to a depth of 9000 ft.
The fact that the fault line is already as you said active(as the site notes, there are two plates affected), creates the distinct possibility of the fracking fluids adding to the static pressure inherent. Obviously NOT a definitive conclusion, but certainly cause for investigation, especially since it is a recurrent symptom in areas with fracking(same conditions have been observed in Texas, Colorado, Arkansas, Oklahoma & New Mexico.).

Additionally, to the point of the post, methane migrates upward due to injected hydraulic fluid pressure accumulation and it can migrate to a distance of more than a few miles, depended upon geological formations and fissures.

Finally in regards to your point about man made pressure, the point is not only the pressure created by the extraction, but the elimination of the "shock absorption" pressurized effect in balance, but again this is not the focus of my post.

And to your question, the pressure is such that it requires frack fluids injected under high pressure to force it upward. So the equation obviously works in reverse as well, so imagine the effect of the added 4,000,000 gallons of waste fluid injected underground. How much more pressure do you think that creates? Enough to push some more methane upwards or to further destabilize an already unstable plate formation?
Worth looking into it.


Scott

 

[JustWood]

Some of the newly developed wells are producing 30,000 PSI on 1 or 2 legs of an 8 + leg well. Injection wells are operating at < 4000 PSI. I don’t think <4000 PSI is the problem. What about all the natural underground pressurized gas storage bunkers being used all over the country? Why aren't these causing earthquakes?
If gas didn’t migrate all over when it was a gas well they why would it when it’s converted to an injection well. Your pressure theory is bunk.
Frac fluids are NOT injected to force gas upward and have nothing to do with the gas production process after a well has been developed. Frac fluids contain sand/different types of beads and lubricant to help get the beads into cracks/crevices and keep them open for gas production. Fluids do NOT remain in the well. The natural pressure/flow of the gas brings them to the surface.
4,000,000 gallons is a piss drop in a bucket. How much water do you think a city the size of Youngstown draws out of the ground DAILY?

 

[skfire]

Some of the newly developed wells are producing 30,000 PSI on 1 or 2 legs of an 8 + leg well. Injection wells are operating at < 4000 PSI. I don’t think <4000 PSI is the problem. What about all the natural underground pressurized gas storage bunkers being used all over the country? why aren't these causing earthquakes?
If gas didn’t migrate all over when it was a gas well they why does it when it’s converted to an injection well. Your pressure theory is bunk.
Frac fluids are NOT injected to force gas upward and have nothing to do with the gas production process after a well has been developed. Frac fluids contain sand/different types of beads and lubricant to help get the beads into cracks/crevices and keep them open for gas production. Fluids do NOT remain in the well. The natural pressure/flow of the gas brings them to the surface.
4,000,000 gallons is a piss drop in a bucket. How much water do you think a city the size of Youngstown draws out of the ground DAILY?

Maybe you should re read my answers more carefully and without the rhetorical filter.

Here is a synopsis ONCE AGAIN:
It is the INTRODUCTION TO MASSIVE VOLUMES OF FRACKING WASTE WATER underground that they are investigating in association with the quakes, not just the fracking process.

I have no theory for you to de bunk, so hold your horses there. Your data about 4,000psi of pressure is per leg, but over how many legs and how many wells in a set area? There is a cumulative effect of multiple pressurized points. It is not a single well they are basing this investigation on.
Laws of physic regarding pressurization are not theories, but the actual conditions 9,000 ft down are NOT THAT CLEAR, so research is not a bad idea.
WE are not the scientists investigating these phenomena, so listening to the actual scientists that research this issue makes logical sense, if one is not invested in an industry or have an axe to grind with anyone that does not subscribe to a specific mindset.
As for me, I have personally researched gas drilling, have visited sites here in PA and have spoken to people with gas wells on both sides of the fence, but I keep my mind open to ACTUAL INDEPENDENT SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH and not the only the Company line or the ANTI line. I decided against it for my own reasons.

I do not know what the town of Younstown draws their entire water supply from, but I can venture a guess it is not from 9,000 ft down and and I can also guess THEY DO NOT DUMP MILLIONS OF GALLONS DOWN TO THAT DEPTH EITHER WHICH once again was the point I was referring to.

Either way not profit based scientific analysis should not be so threatening, it should be welcome I would think.

This is obviously going beyond the intent of the thread and my posting was for informative purposes only, NOT JUDGEMENT.
I am ending my posts on this issue here. If you want to continue privately so be it, but I do not think the forum is intended for this discussion.

Take care & good luck.

Scott

 

[JustWood]

The problem with the anti-gas crowd/media is lack of knowledge and belief of the hype. The wells in question started injecting in Dec 2010. The quakes started Mar 2011. Same time frame of the big one near Japan. This area (I live nearby) sees regular siesmic activity.
Common sense tells me that if a drilled well produces 30,000 PSI of flow at the well head then 4000 PSI at the injection well head which will be somewhat reduced at 9300 feet down is a non issue. If the weight pressure of the liquid is thought to be the issue, then why haven't earthquakes occured during extraction of the pressurized gas and brine?
There are 6 major injection wells in NYS that have been in operation for 16-46 years . I don't recall any issues.
Gas/oil drilling, frac fluids, and injection wells are nothing new. Other than deep drilling methods/equipment and more environmental regulation (a good thing) everything has pretty much remained the same. It's the media hype and NIMBYism that has everyones panties in a bunch and rumors being quoted as fact.

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/conte...-downplay-closing-of-brine-well.html?nav=5358
http://business-journal.com/breakin...t-dl-energys-brineinjection-well-p20689-1.htm