I have owned this large flush insert for 5 years. I like it. I love the way it looks. But, the cat is damn high maintenance. I have already wrecked 2 ceramic ones in 5 yeas and I am now using a steel cat. I think the steel cat is plugged and I have tried vacuuming it. As soon as I engage the cat, the cat temps drop like a rock. I imagine it is plugged up. But, why???? This stove requires a lot of maintenance. It is only Dec 5th and I have to remove the cat to inspect and do a deep cleaning? I just vacuumed it this morning and that is not enough. So, I guess I have to take it out and look. Anybody else have to babysit this thing this much? As soon as I disengage the cat, the fire comes alive. With the cat engaged, it is super choked.
Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice
- Thread starter clydesdale
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Steel cats are more prone to clogging, I think because of the smaller cell size. You could alwaus try burning with the cat removed for a bit....
I don't know your stove. But what is the moisture content of your wood? Burning wood that's wetter than best will overwhelm the cat and creates a lot of creosote.
And do you engage the cat when it's sufficiently hot? Engaging too soon is likely to plug the cat.
Are you sure there are no metal pieces in your wood? (I assume you only burn proper cordwood.) Feeding the cat inappropriate fuel will damage/deactivate it.
And do you engage the cat when it's sufficiently hot? Engaging too soon is likely to plug the cat.
Are you sure there are no metal pieces in your wood? (I assume you only burn proper cordwood.) Feeding the cat inappropriate fuel will damage/deactivate it.
I tried to update, but the site was working properly earlier. The update is that I took the cat out, again, and cleaned all 3,000 cells with a pipe cleaner and the thing works like a champ again. I think I may have mixed my pile up and the kids brought in some heavier newer wood. I think I am going to like the steel cat better. The cat has no sign of fracturing. The design of this stove allows flames to lick the ceramic cat and it gets beaten up. Thanks.
Be careful; most cat instructions tell one not to use any type of brush in the channels because one can easily dislodge the atomic scale catalytic metal clusters.
Hope it keeps working with proper wood!
Hope it keeps working with proper wood!
My steel cat isn't at all hard to maintain.
.
With grey fine dust or black crud?
Do you mean sticking the hose right up to the cells and sucking the particulate out or do you mean putting the hose on the exhaust side and gently blowing about 6 inches away both sides, then finishing up with a paint brush to get the outer most edge of the cells.
You must be good at jigsaw puzzles but that could shorten it's life. I'd go the vinegar/distilled water route next time.
RearScreen ---how would a good cleaning like that shorten its life on the cat would not it be really cleaned good if one was careful..just curious and I do not have a cat stove but they are nice when they work good..clancey
When I vacuum, I use a car detailing kit. Which is a brush that attaches to an ash vac. I run the brush right over the inlet of the cat. Pipe cleaner and cotton swabs are approved. I had placed a call to Midwest Hearth and that is what they told me and sent me this link.
midwesthearth.com
Catalytic Combustor FAQ
WHAT IS A CATALYTIC COMBUSTOR? Our catalytic combustors consist of a durable, temperature-resistant ceramic composition which is extruded into a specific cell density, creating a honeycomb configuration. It is then cut to manufacturer's specified sizes and fired. We then wash coat the unit with...
midwesthearth.com
That link says to not even
" Using abrasive tools while cleaning it.
Using high pressure air to blow the cell free of debris."
A brush is abrasive. Soft brushes only on the surface (with the holes).to remove fly ash.
I mean you shouldn't even use high pressure air...
My manual says to never use a brush inside the channels.
" Using abrasive tools while cleaning it.
Using high pressure air to blow the cell free of debris."
A brush is abrasive. Soft brushes only on the surface (with the holes).to remove fly ash.
I mean you shouldn't even use high pressure air...
My manual says to never use a brush inside the channels.
I am not sure what you mean. I don't use compressed air and I don't use an abrasive cleaner. The pipe cleaners are super soft and are from a craft store. The brushes are gentle brushes for paint. The car detail kit is soft enough to use on a McClaren, not that I have one. This is exactly what Midwest Hearth prescribed. If this is wrong, them I am lost. It absolutely did the trick. But, my 75 y.o. father would have traded this thing in a long time ago. I like the look of the stove and when it performs well, it performs well. But, the cat is prone to issues. Where it is located allows it to get licked by the flames. I keep my cat temps below 1200 and they like to sit at 1000-1100 on a 3/4 reload. When it was plugged, it struggled to reach 650-700.
My view is this. If it's fly ash, you don't need a brush. If it's creosote, a soft brush won't be enough.
So a brush is not necessary.
So a brush is not necessary.
What were you instructed and can you provide a link or some sort of literature? I am completely open to whatever is the prescribed way to do this. I would have thought compressed air. I have the ability to control the pressure of the air and would have been fine doing that. But, they didn't want that. A vacuum was definitely not enough this time. My manual for the Travis Industries stove shows a brush and they provide a brush in the owner's packet. I spoke with them on the phone and did what they said and what they said is also what they provided in writing. That is usually good enough for me. But, I agree, I would love to be even more gentle with it. So, if you have a way to do that, I certainly would try it. Thanks.
If all fails and you have to push fly ash plugs, I would use a long thin shashlik-like wooden pin, trying at all cost to avoid touching the sides.
But evidently your mfg is ok with doing it with a brush.
Pic of relevant section of my manual. Note the "never"-section two lines above the bold text.
![[Hearth.com] Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/288/288890-91ed9f557e70a1e744846785c88f65b1.jpg?hash=Ksv4HmGT_x "[Hearth.com] Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice")
But evidently your mfg is ok with doing it with a brush.
Pic of relevant section of my manual. Note the "never"-section two lines above the bold text.
![[Hearth.com] Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/288/288891-f44f56f253e3057034ae283ce22dc4f7.jpg?hash=qSUtP3Oiu3 "[Hearth.com] Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice")
OK. Thanks for posting that. Seems both instructions are ok with vacuuming and using a soft brush. Where they differ HARD is the pipe cleaner. So...... I will certainly avoid that next time. I did just double check the pipe cleaners and they are extremely soft, softer than the brush. Thank you for posting the literature. It will help me and others.
I am thinking this all goes back to likely messing up my piles for a bunch of wood that my kids brought in. It was heavy and burned like iron. This is the first time I have ever had to use anything like a pipe cleaner. Usually the vacuum/brush is all it takes. But, my bigger issue, with the ceramic cats was that they would only last 1-2 years and would break up. I have attached a pic of my issue this time. Vacuuming wasn't doing a damn thing, so I had to step it up. This was done Dec 11th. The cat still looks like I just cleaned it. I had the kids remove all the heavy stuff and bring it out to the pile to sit another year. Here is the pic. What is the diagnosis? Thanks for the help!
![[Hearth.com] Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice](https://www.hearth.com/talk/data/attachments/288/288892-6ad77cb9d5d24024656f672fc9d6478f.jpg?hash=GYyIjjD1MZ "[Hearth.com] Fire place xtrordinaire Large Hybrid- tired of cat issues- need some advice")
I am thinking this all goes back to likely messing up my piles for a bunch of wood that my kids brought in. It was heavy and burned like iron. This is the first time I have ever had to use anything like a pipe cleaner. Usually the vacuum/brush is all it takes. But, my bigger issue, with the ceramic cats was that they would only last 1-2 years and would break up. I have attached a pic of my issue this time. Vacuuming wasn't doing a damn thing, so I had to step it up. This was done Dec 11th. The cat still looks like I just cleaned it. I had the kids remove all the heavy stuff and bring it out to the pile to sit another year. Here is the pic. What is the diagnosis? Thanks for the help!
The soft brush they allow is over the surface (that you photographed), not inside the channels - to my understanding.
Agreed. There is no way in hell you are getting a brush into those tiny holes. The brush they provide with the stove is to brush the cat surface from fly ash. It is way to large for anything else. The pipe cleaners are very small. Hopefully, I will not ever have to use those again. Thanks.
Given the amount of fly ash in your cat, assuming you don't burn cardboard etc, how tall is your chimney? Too tall, too much draft could pull ash to your cat.
If that is the case, a flue damper might be useful.
If that is the case, a flue damper might be useful.
Big chimney. 30+ ft liner. Draft could be an issue. I am not sure I could use a damper. How would I control it? Everything is behind a nice surround.
Ah, yes. I think your draft is causing the plugging with fly ash.
Ugh, that's tough to solve with an insert.
I have not seen that done, but I certainly have not seen everything that can be done..
Ugh, that's tough to solve with an insert.
I have not seen that done, but I certainly have not seen everything that can be done..
Wow, what a PITA to use a pipe cleaner, I use compressor with blower nozzle and hold about 12" away to clean. Maybe 1-2 times a season. I guess those cans of air that are used for cleaning keyboards etc., would work too. You mention wood that "kids brought was heavy and burns like iron", sounds like bad wood to me and will clog the cat too. I'm on season 8 with a steel cat and still glowing and operating great. I attribute that good wood, letting the cat heat up before engaging. To do that, on new/reload, I run bypass wide open and door cracked for 20-30 minutes, then with door still cracked I do bypass to 1/2 way for another ~10 minutes, then shut door and close bypass after now 30 minutes.
I have seen a few inserts with dampers that had extensions on them through the suround. That said I have never seen a cat that plugged up. lol
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