fireplace insert

[bull]

hello guys new to the site . it is a great one at that.my ? is i have a insert that i installed last year for when it gets real cold ,but the bad thing is it smokes when every the door is open up . it is a lile 2 door the flue is clean as a whistle and is higher than the roof. i have even added a extra piece 4foot higher than the top of roof. what would make it smoke any help is appreciated.

 

[Dix]

Make, model, chimney type, , lined (chimney), where & how installed, etc.

Welcome, and like Johnny 5, need more input ;-)

 

[bull]

not sure on the model it is a lilie insert 2 door with glass . the flue is 8 inch flue tile surrounded by a laid rock approx. 12' long and 4' thick.the stove has a skirt that sorrounds it . on top of the stove it has a 3"x10" opening that is dampered for the smoke to escaped. tried to post pic. but it didnt show up.

 

[Korasdad]

My insert required that they line the clay flue with a 6 inch stainless flue as the clay was too large and wouldn't get hot enough to maintain a draw...

I'm a novice so hopefully one of the more experienced types will chime in here...

 

[Dix]

Does the chimney have a liner, ?

 

[bull]

no just the clay tile

 

[Dix]

OK. Get ready, because your education is about to be paramount

*steps back for the "bretheren" *

 

[bull]

thanks i need all the help i can get.

 

[BrotherBart]

Bump. Maybe some our owners of "classic" inserts can help here.

 

[beau5278]

A couple of things that I've found when I had a woodburner that does that is to open the door a little to ignite the wood that's laying in there before I try to put more on,you usually only need to open it just 1/4in or so for 10 or 15 seconds,just enough to get flames,then load your wood.Another thing that could be causing you trouble is if your chimney isn't staying warm enough,try burning the fire a little hotter and see if that makes a difference.

 

[bull]

i have tried the open door slow and have had it blazing and open door . same thing. are there something that needs to connect to the top of the stove. and slide up into the flue . on top of the stove there is a hole that is around 3"x10" .

 

[mellow]

Do you have an exterior chimney?

For older stoves you need to get a rectangle to circle boot connector if you plan to put a ss liner in your chimney, which would be a good thing to do if you have an older chimney. Read up in the Wiki about liners and see if that fits your situation.

 

[bull]

half is in the hose and the oter is outside. where is the wiki loacted

 

[oconnor]

My read of the first post gave me the impression that the insert isn't directly vented to the flue - please confirn that isn't the case - on my read it sounds like a "slammer", where the smoke is expected to rise to the flue without being contained by smoke pipe or liner.

thebull, am I reading it correctly?

 

[mellow]

half is in the hose and the oter is outside. where is the wiki loacted

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/wiki/

 

[brooktrout]

Bump. Maybe some our owners of "classic" inserts can help here.

Okay, I'll bite. I doubt the stove is getting enough of a draft up the chimney. That's a much larger volume of space- including the area around the stove in the fireplace cavity. This will affect the stove. The direct connect method, with a few feet of liner up into the tile would help alot, but I still would advise the full liner. IMHO, one could use single wall, as it is inside an existing masonary chimney. This is what I did. The ultimate, of course, would be the double-walled, insulated, stainless steel, platinum-tipped, ISO9001 certified, bonified, fortified, Twentieth Anniversary Edition liner, straight to the top.

 

[bull]

no it doesnt have the pipe on the top. i am working with a guy that builds chimneys and he laghed at me. i did not know , he said that the stove need a pipe attached from stove and slide up in the chimney. shold take care of problem.

 

[woodgeek]

A direct connect (length of pipe) AND a sealed, metal block-off plate will improve the draft a lot. Right now, you probably have a lot of cool air slipping around the surround/skirt cooling the flue, killing your draft and heat output. Without a sealed block-off plate, the length of pipe would not get you too much benefit.

BUT, unless you are certain about the condition and proper construction of your tile flue, then you should spend a little extra for the full liner, just for safety sake and your peace of mind. This is doubly true if you are going to burn a lot or its an exterior chimney (not running inside the heated space), as it will be a lot easier to clean. Direct connects essentially need to be taken apart, and the insert pulled to be cleaned, you want to do that 1-2X a year?

 

[oconnor]

no it doesnt have the pipe on the top. i am working with a guy that builds chimneys and he laghed at me. i did not know , he said that the stove need a pipe attached from stove and slide up in the chimney. shold take care of problem.

Yep that's what I thought I read - twice in one day where the question we think is being asked isn't close to the question that needs answered. Your install is refered to as a "slammer", and is dangerous, as it relies on natural draft of the flue to magically carry the smoke out even though it isn't directly connected to the flue and is mixed with ambient air in the house.

Note for the rest of us - We need to read these questions carefully! Lately I've noticed the need to read between the lines, especially when a poster is brand spankin' new to the wood heat world. This question seemed to be about how to cure poor draft and it was - the stove actually needs to be connected to the flue, not just in the vicinity.

Glad we caught it in time before we had you burning really dry wood and hotter fires to get it all heated up.

thebull - keep asking the questions - lots of folks here glad to help you out. With some help you should be able to be burning safely soon. Keep us updated, as the next new guy will appreciate the updates as much as you will appreciate the answers.

 

[TKeller]

Just wanted to say I had a slammer(insert placed in fireplace open to a 12x12inch flue with no pipe connection. Had unbelievablyl great draft. Never, ever smelled smoke in the room. I can only attribute this great draft situation because of this being an interior chimney and the chimney was built by an accomplished chimney mason. Not always one classic answer to a problem. Tony

 

[woodgeek]

Tony,

I'm guessing that your slammer surround was well sealed.....was it?

 

[oconnor]

Just wanted to say I had a slammer(insert placed in fireplace open to a 12x12inch flue with no pipe connection. Had unbelievablyl great draft. Never, ever smelled smoke in the room. I can only attribute this great draft situation because of this being an interior chimney and the chimney was built by an accomplished chimney mason. Not always one classic answer to a problem. Tony

I suspect the reason you had great draft (and no smoke based on your comment in another thread) is because it was good at sucking air out of your house, regardless of whether it had smoke in it or not. Mixing ambient air will lower the flue temp, and creosote will result if you get any wet wood. Once it plugs, the stove will just fill your house with smoke. Slammers weren't an answer to a problem, they were bad application of the laws of Physics. One way or the other, you got lucky - many others didn't.

 

[bull]

guys thanks for the advice i am so glad i found this site. the flue i have is in great shape except for what i have for stove installation. there is a heat and air place down the road that i was told that handles stove pipe . if the flue is in good shape and i get the pipe and plate you all told me about , do i still have to pull stove out to clean. i also have another post about shutting stove down for the nite and when i leave for work. if someone would please read and tell me if i am doing something wrong .thanks will keep you updated.

 

[woodheat]

If you get a liner that goes from the stove right to the roof you most likely be able to clean it without removing the insert. Does depend on your stove though. Mine allows me to remove the air tubes and baffles. The other way is if you do the block off plate method with a shorter piece of pipe and have a clean out door in your chimney above the block off plate. The slammer method described in this thread is definitely against any new code for insert installation.

 

[oconnor]

If you do a "direct connect" (that is what a partial liner inserted into the first clay tile is called) then you need to remove the block off plate and liner each year to clean, otherwise the creosote and soot will just fall onto the plate. I truly would not recommend a direct connect setup - they are illegal up here in Canada. A full liner will perform well, and you won't need to pull it apart every year. Note that I said liner, not just smoke pipe - it must run into the flue until it reaches the first clay tile of the flue (I forget how far into the tile it is supposed to go)

Any advice on other burning questions will not be all that useful for you - the way the stove works is going to change completely once you actually hook it up to the flue instead of the slammer install you have now. Just please tell me that you aren't going to use it until it is installed correctly.

You should read thru a couple other threads that are going on right now about flue liners - there are some other serious considerations when it comes to deciding how to vent a wood stove discussed there.

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/323846/

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewreply/323623/

As well, look at the reading lists that have developed in this thread from another new burner

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/30760/