First time install - A few questions..

[Mr4btTahoe]

Hey guys...

Been reading over this forum for several weeks now and am in the process of doing my first install. I've had a wood stove in just about every house I've lived in but this is my first time doing the install.

My wife and I just bought a house out of town on a large wooded lot. The current house is all electric and while working on the place and keeping temps at 50 in the house, the electric bill has been over 200. With that said, a family member offered me their old "Silent Flame" stove and I figured why not...

I'm in the process of repainting the stove at the moment and I just picked up all of the 8" stainless double wall and components (SuperVent)... also going with double wall from the chimney to the stove.

I'm building my own hearth pad and have it framed up at the moment. Its a good bit larger then the stove requires.. framed up with 2x4 on edge.. 16" on center and covered with 3/4" plywood. Now here is where I'm stuck... The tag on the rear of the stove states that the floor protection needs to be 3/8" asbestos millboard or equivalent. It doesn't specify an R or K value. The specific stove sits on a large pedestal with a blower built into the bottom. I find it hard to believe that it needs much as far as heat transfer goes.

I was planning on a single layer of 1/2" nextgen durock and ceramic tile to finish off my pad. Will this be enough? If it is enough, will it limit me on future stove choices?

This stove is basically a freebie to keep the house warm for a while.. but down the road, I'd like to go with a modern EPA stove. The pad itself is oversized a good bit leaving me plenty of wiggle room on sizes... however the R value of my non combustibles (tile/durock) will be ~.4 Is that enough for the modern stoves that can heat 2500sq. ft. or should I go a little heavier?

Thanks for the input. I'll be posting pics up as I progress.
-Chris

 

[begreen]

The hearth "probably" will be ok. If you want an extra measure of safety, put down two layers of Durock.

This thread may be about your stove model. It has a link to the manual.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/silent-flame-stove-manual-help.91970/

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

The hearth "probably" will be ok. If you want an extra measure of safety, put down two layers of Durock.

This thread may be about your stove model. It has a link to the manual.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/silent-flame-stove-manual-help.91970/

Looks a lot like the one I have.. mine is a model 1653. Not sure of the exact differences, but mine has sliding air inlets on both doors.

I may go on and add another layer of Durock for giggles.

I have yet to find a manual for this specific model #.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

The clearances listed in that manual and the ones listed on the back of the stove I have are a good bit different.

On the back of my stove, it says with standard stove pipe, 15" from the back on a flat wall... or 15" from the corners of the stovetop in a corner install. Those numbers drop down to 10" if using "insulated" pipe which I assume they are talking about double wall pipe between the stove and chimney.

How I have it laid out, I will be ~ 13" from the rear corners to unprotected drywall. I will have 18+ inches in front of the stove. I'm using 8" black double wall from the stove to the chimney and 8" stainless double wall from the ceiling support up.

Will I be ok with these measurements?

Thanks again.

 

[Woody Stover]

Welcome to the forums. Keep an eye on craigslist; I scored the Buck 91 for my MIL's house there, for about 1/3 retail. Once you have a stove in there, you can bide your time.

The hearth "probably" will be ok. If you want an extra measure of safety, put down two layers of Durock. This thread may be about your stove model.

Ah, the central scrutinizer...just heard from him yesterday. Looks like that linked manual also says 3/8. Woodstock Fireview (granted, totally different stove) say what the OP did, with the addition of a layer of sheet metal over the plywood...

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

I've got some extra sheet metal... I may go on and put that down where the stove will sit, then a double layer of 1/2" nextgen.

Am I good on my clearances based on the stove tag?

Thanks for the input.

 

[begreen]

Good plan, there's no harm having a bit of extra protection. It will increase your options if you decide to change the stove.

Yes, the stove tag listed clearances should be the same as the clearances listed in the manual.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Ok... Got the extra Durock picked up along with the tile we decided to go with. I'll cut some sheet metal tonight and will hopefully have everything ready so I can sit the stove and locate the chimney Saturday.

Here is how its looking thus far..

 

[begreen]

Looks like a good start. After the sheetmetal on stagger the seams for the second layer of Durock.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Will do. Will most likely sit the stove on the pad as it is just to locate the chimney, then haul it back out to the shop until I get the pad finished and grouted.

Hoping to install everything from the ceiling up come saturday as its supposed to be over 50* and sunny.

Thanks for the insight... more progress to come.
-Chris

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Made progress today. Got the chimney from the ceiling up mostly finished. I need to return a 3' section of pipe for a 2' section. I bought 3 3' sections and with 2 in place, I'm only 16" shy of code.

My ceiling support was missing the instructions so when I got back home, I discovered that I installed the chimney adapter wrong. I installed it from the bottom of the ceiling support instead of locking it onto the chimney pipe and dropping it in from the top. Not a big deal to fix.

Now I didn't have the head room for an insulation shield so I decided to box it in instead while keeping 2" minimum. Now that I have access to the instructions, there is mention of a "Rafter Radiation Shield". It says it is required when the chimney is enclosed below the roof line. I thought that was the purpose of maintaining the 2" minimum... I had read on here that it isn't required in the US.. is that the case? I have to slide the chimney back up and out of the roof to fix the adapter anyways, so it wouldn't be much hassle to drop the shield into place if its needed.

I have not fully enclosed the chimney yet and can work that shield into place if need be as I need to take a few other things back.. I can pick one up.. but is it required? Then will I need to keep a 2" clearance from that shield or from the pipe itself?

Anyways... here is how it looks so far. I snapped the rain cap in place just to keep water out until I add the 2' section and the guy support brackets as I'll be over 5' from the roof. Don't mind the wallpaper border hanging down.. we are in the middle of cleaning/repainting and it hasn't all been pulled down yet.

Input on the radiation shield would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys

 

[Hogwildz]

A bit late for me to add to, but a few things to think about.
If thew stove calls for anything asbestos, that tells how old the stove is.
Using 8" piping now, when you do go to replace, you will be looking for a stove that takes 8" pipe, or, changing the piping if the new stove takes 6", or, trying to make 8" work with a 6" stove outlet, which may or may not draft poorly.
I would have run two more courses of shingles over the roof flashing pan, but that is just me.
You could just cut the attic insulation shield to meet the roof pitch and run it up to the bottom of the roof deck.
Sounds like you're boxing in around the piping in the attic area, seems that would be fine. You just don't want any insulation against the pipe.

Doesn't look like much room to work in the attic space, know that problem well, not fun. Don't wack your head on any of those roofing nails, that huts, I know.
I would also put some 2x4s between the rafter to help support the roof decking on those sides of the hole. That will also give you something to fasten the tops of the boxing to.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Yup... stove is an oldie.. built in '84

I strongly considered finding a different stove after seeing the 8" outlet, however after a bit of reading on here, others had asked and been informed that going from a 6" outlet to an 8" chimney wouldn't cause any issues.

Yeah, I found a few of those nails with the back of my head.. sucked. Where we wanted the stove ended up being on an outside wall... with the roof being a 4/12, not much room to work with.

As far as boxing it in, that's the plan. I'll see if I can work a few 2x4s in place around the hole through the decking. The tightest clearance is right at 2" at the lower part of the roof opening. Was planning on just boxing it in with the scrap plywood I had laying around ( happened to be 3/4") but after tracking down instructions once back to the house in town, it was going on about a radiation shield (which is special order of course...) so I figured I'd ask. Better safe then sorry as this is my first time doing anything stove vent related.

 

[begreen]

It looks like you will need to trim the attic radiation shield to fit. It's primary purpose is to keep insulation away from the pipe. Although there is fiberglass now, what if some day you or a new owner decides to blow in cellulose in the attic.

PS: Looks like there is pretty thin insulation up there. If you want to reduce heating add some more.

 

[Hogwildz]

It looks like you will need to trim the attic radiation shield to fit. It's primary purpose is to keep insulation away from the pipe. Although there is fiberglass now, what if some day you or a new owner decides to blow in cellulose in the attic.

PS: Looks like there is pretty thin insulation up there. If you want to reduce heating add some more.

If he is boxing it in with plywood at 2" clearance, he doesn't need the insulation shield does he? Basically a chase around the pipe in the attic space.
Might be terminology, but isn't a radiation shield for going between floors and an attic insulation shield for attics space?

 

[begreen]

My perception is that we are looking at the attic, between the ceiling and the roof? If so he needs an insulation shield. That seems to be the way he's describing it. Maybe it's just because I am used to working with metal. Both would do the job, but in that tight space I'd want to drop in a metal sleeve and be done with it. This looks like a belly crawling job at best.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Indeed it is. I thought cutting the shield was against code?

I was boxing it in as an insulation shield... I had read that as long as I maintained the 2" minimum, that any material could be used to keep insulation away from the pipe.

The online instructions that I found for the SuperVent setup calls for a "rafter radiation shield" when the chimney is enclosed close to the roofline. The "RRS" isn't large enough to provide the minimum 2" clearance by itself... and is different then the AIS.

I bought the attic insulation shield but it requires nearly 20" of headroom over the framing around the ceiling support... I've got maybe 12"

I've read on this forum in other places of guys just boxing in the chimney using 1/2" osb or similar as the insulation shield as long as the clearance was maintained. So what is the point of the "radiation shield" that the instructions calls for and is it needed?

 

[begreen]

I can't see how cutting the shield when the roof is in the way is against code. Common sense needs a voice too. Essentially you would be making a combo rafter and insulation shield. At least that is what I'd do. Doing it with wood would work too if clearances are honored, but it'll be a lot of work with small pieces in a miserable space.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Hmm... I'll revisit it tomorrow when I get back out there. I haven't taken anything back yet. I could certainly cut it down to fit and it would probably end up being safer overall...

The fun part will be cutting it to match the pitch of the roof fairly close. Guess I've got more work to do but I'd rather use a factory part designed for its job then guesswork.

Thanks again. Hoping to button that up tomorrow and lay tile. I'll have to order my double wall stove pipe tomorrow so I can get it hooked up and test fired soon.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Another question...

The instructions say nothing about securing the chimney adapter to the chimney pipe itself. They sell clamps for the pipe - pipe connections... and it says to use the clamps to secure the pipe connections, however, it says nothing about the adapter except to twist it onto the end of the first section of chimney.

So nothing retains the adapter to the chimney except the twist lock? Same goes for the rain cap as the clamps wont fit.

Thanks again!
-Chris

 

[Grisu]

I strongly considered finding a different stove after seeing the 8" outlet, however after a bit of reading on here, others had asked and been informed that going from a 6" outlet to an 8" chimney wouldn't cause any issues.

I hope you did not get the impression that this was always true. A lot depends on the length of the flue, the specific stove model, tightness of the home etc. Given that your flue seems to be on the short side I fear it won't be that easy to switch to a more modern stove later.

 

[Hogwildz]

A "radiation shield" is installed where the piping runs through a ceiling(fist floor to second floor). Are you sure you're not reading the manual instructions for going through a floor, instead of ceiling to roof?

 

[Hogwildz]

Hmm... I'll revisit it tomorrow when I get back out there. I haven't taken anything back yet. I could certainly cut it down to fit and it would probably end up being safer overall...

The fun part will be cutting it to match the pitch of the roof fairly close. Guess I've got more work to do but I'd rather use a factory part designed for its job then guesswork.

Thanks again. Hoping to button that up tomorrow and lay tile. I'll have to order my double wall stove pipe tomorrow so I can get it hooked up and test fired soon.

Make a tube out of a pc pf cardboard, then cut the cardboard to the roof pitch, then transfer to the shield with a Sharpie and cut. You don't have to get it perfect to the underside of the roof deck, as you will not and should not run insulation up to the bottom of the deck anyway.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

I hope you did not get the impression that this was always true. A lot depends on the length of the flue, the specific stove model, tightness of the home etc. Given that your flue seems to be on the short side I fear it won't be that easy to switch to a more modern stove later.

Yes I was under that impression as the question was asked.. "Will an 8" chimney be ok on a stove with a 6" flue" and the reply was " You shouldn't have any problems." They didn't say anything about chimney length, etc..etc.. Not sure if this is a good sign or not but it already is drafting out of the house.. when I installed the rain cap, the drywall dust and bits from us cutting the holes was blowing up through the center of the chimney. For my wallet's sake, I hope your fears are wrong. Then again, worst case scenario, I reuse the entire chimney system in my shop which is where this stove will eventually be retired to.. and get a 6" kit with a ceiling support large enough to fill the larger hole... that or drywall work. I suppose I wont be throwing any money away in the long run...

A "radiation shield" is installed where the piping runs through a ceiling(fist floor to second floor). Are you sure you're not reading the manual instructions for going through a floor, instead of ceiling to roof?

This is a direct quote from the manual...

'A Rafter Radiation Shield (RRS) must be installed where the chimney is
enclosed immediately below the roof line as shown in
figure 18. An example of this is when the attic space of a house is being
used as living space (ie. bedroom, guestroom etc.). It must also be
installed when height restrictions will not allow the use of the Attic
Insulation Shield (AIS) and the chimney has been enclosed with an
enclosure around the chimney."

Input?

Also, after a bit of research, if I alter the factory insulation shield, it very well may not pass inspection (as it is no longer a "factory" piece)... If I end up having to cut down this shield and use it, I'll call the inspector first.

 

[bholler]

Yes I was under that impression as the question was asked.. "Will an 8" chimney be ok on a stove with a 6" flue" and the reply was " You shouldn't have any problems." They didn't say anything about chimney length, etc..etc.. Not sure if this is a good sign or not but it already is drafting out of the house.. when I installed the rain cap, the drywall dust and bits from us cutting the holes was blowing up through the center of the chimney. For my wallet's sake, I hope your fears are wrong. Then again, worst case scenario, I reuse the entire chimney system in my shop which is where this stove will eventually be retired to.. and get a 6" kit with a ceiling support large enough to fill the larger hole... that or drywall work. I suppose I wont be throwing any money away in the long run...

You where given some bad advice sorry to say. It is very possible that a 6" stove will run ok on an *' chimney but it is very far from guaranteed. In fact i would say more often than not it will be pretty hard to get the new stove to work right