First wood stove, uninsulated cabin, and not enough heat

[rockdude14]

I have a small cabin I just bought there's bigger plans down the road but in the meantime its uninsulated, 500 sq ft, single pane windows, basically what you would expect from a 1950 built cabin. Roof is 2x10, and the sides are just D cut logs (so not full timbers). I'm not living there but I do go there and use the property. It was used only in the summer.

I got a used Avalon 790 pretty cheaply in hopes of warming up the house a bit more and it does an ok job but since this is my first wood stove I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. I'm in the pacific north west so the lows are only around 35-45. I put it in what was the original fire place which was near the center of the room. Installed black stove pipe up the original chimney (about 15' total), made a damper block off plate and but some roxul above it. Not sure the species of wood I'm burning (probably some kind of softwood being the NW) but it is seasoned and around 15% moisture content. The stove is missing the baffle blanket, but does have all the fire bricks in good condition.

With the air control all the way open I can get the cabin if its about 35 out side to about 60 but takes some time and than its burning a pretty good amount of wood. The top of the stove will get to a max of about 400f. I hear a lot of people with smaller houses and even uninsulated ones saying they have problems with making it to warm. Does this sound like what you would expect for this stove and house setup? Or is there a chance I'm doing something wrong with my burning technique (again first wood stove)?

Thanks for any advice, let me know if you have any questions.

 

[Skidoo]

Sounds like you’ve got a couple issues here. I understand your issue of having a poorly insulated weekend retreat.
One thing you could try is to seal up the building. Or at least the windows. We used to use a plastic film on the windows, the kind you use a heat gun or hair dryer to tighten up.
If you are heating up the building from 35, it’s going to take some time. Our cottage takes a good 8 hours get to a comfortable temp.

 

[Prof]

Yeah, it is going to take some time to get a cold cabin that is in the 30's up to a comfortable temp. Buttoning things up will certainly help, but keep in mind the air temp will be in the 60s and everything in the cabin will still be quite cold. You might consider a propane heater to supplement the stove.

 

[jatoxico]

Get the baffle blanket. Don't know this stove or if it has secondary combustion tubes but regardless 400 is a low temp. You can usually raise the stove top temperature by slowly lowering the amount of air you're feeding in. Lower the air until the flames die back some the wait tfor the fire to rebound and do it again. If the wood really starts to smolder open it back up a little. 15% is very dry and makes me suspicious you didn't measure correctly. Do it on a freshly split face of room temp split.

 

[rockdude14]

Thanks, the views are amazing which is why i was a little hesitant on the windows, but I'll probably give that a shot.

I'll also try getting in early and keeping it going longer. I havent stayed the night yet (just got the stove in a couple weeks ago, plus doing the work around it). It says it could burn for up to 8hrs but currently dont see how that would ever happen.

Would roxul work as a baffle blanket? I've got plenty of it left over and the melting temp seems like it would be fine. Not sure the difference compared to the kaowool replacement https://www.rockymountainstove.com/avalon-kaowool-blanket-98900318/

I'll check again like you said 15% -20% was what I remembered. From what I heard no one was at the cabin for atleast the last 5 years, and the wood was stored under it. You basically take you axe and look at it, and it splits. But ill check again like you said.

Here's the manual if anyone wants to take a look.
(broken link removed)

It mentions two secondary air tubes on page 31, but there is not two tubes, just one. but looking at the diagram of the stove on page 33 only shows 1, and looks like what I have.

There's also basically no smoke coming out of the chimney. You said I can raise the stove temp by lowering the airflow? I thought that was the opposite? I'll give it a shot and see what it does.

Thanks everyone.

 

[Ludlow]

We get our cabin up to temp with the oil furnace first. Then build a fire and let the stove take over the task from there. Using the stove alone takes a whole day and too much hard earned wood.

 

[SteveKG]

I lived full-time in a 450-sq-ft cabin for 11 years. It was slightly insulated with some sawdust in the walls, but nothing in the floor or ceiling. I had a then-common "barrel" stove, and it really cranked out the heat. However, soon's the fire went out, not much evidence of that heat hung around. Come home from work, water in dog bowl frozen.

I did, over time, try various things that helped a bit. Such as, tacked plastic sheeting over all the double-hung windows. Redid the door seals.

But nothing really did all that much good. The plastic kept the wind from blowing in. A more modern, longer-burning stove would have certainly helped, but those options were limited in the 70s and my finances would not have allowed me to get one.

Only things that will really do it are insulation, better windows, better stove.

 

[peakbagger]

Over the years I have visited and occasionally stayed in poorly to non insulated log cabins. They are tough to heat unless there are a couple of stoves and an unlimited supply of wood. Before spending a dime on insulating you need to get a handle on air infiltration and that generally means re-chinking. There ares some nice new methods of chinking that are long lasting and resilient. You can put plastic both inside and outside the windows. If you have old carpeting around, cutting one slightly oversize and nailing it over the top of exterior door opening so it hangs down over the opening sometimes works pretty well to cut down drafts. The next thing to do is insulate the roof. Not a lot of options to insulate log walls but normally if you deal with the cracks that will tighten things up considerably.

 

[jetsam]

I'd insulate those walls with rigid foam board first, as it will also stop air infiltration. After that, studs and regular roll insulation.

New windows are a big deal. They make replacement windows to size.

New stove or repair the old one. You have half a stove right now because the secondary combustion is disabled.

Get some wood under cover and check your moisture meter. If you have 15% MC wood, you're either measuring it wrong, it is stored indoors, or you live in a desert. Most people with 10-15% wood are either measuring it cold or not measuring on a fresh split.

After that, see about insulating the roof. Not sure how that's done in a log cabin. I'm sure trapping moisture is a concern.

 

[begreen]

Lots of things working against this here. First, this was an early model and not very efficient and second, it has a small firebox. Third is the lack of insulation in the cabin. Fighting heat loss while trying to gain room mass temperature is a long uphill battle. You need 2-3x the firepower to make faster gains. And a suspected fourth would be the wood, if not fully seasoned.

NOTE: black stove pipe should not be used as a liner in the chimney. That is dangerous. It will corrode quickly. Get an insulated stainless liner in there.

 

[rockdude14]

Here's the moister meter, let me know if im doing something wrong. Didnt know cold would effect it but this is a fresh split. This read 18.7%. Didnt know the cold effected it. Not sure how old but this wood could have been under the cabin for between 5 and 15 years.

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Here's a decent gif of it going right now. I get some little flames coming out of the air tube. I think that is a secondary burn but I'm not sure.

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I know the black stove pipe isnt the best, although I did see a little debate when I searched about other people doing similiar. I can easily pull the whole pipe straight out the top and that was my plan for cleaning and inspection. Since its just occasional use, pretty well covered from the top and easy to check I went this route. This price difference was just too much for me. The plan is to build a new house/cabin, hopefully next summer. Depending on how permitting goes will drive that. If it gets too rough, I'll make it right, as well as insulate better if I go with this for the long term. In the mean time I did grab the plastic window covers because they were pretty cheap. As well as some weather stripping because I do know there are a couple gaps.

As far as running the stove, jatoxico mentioned dialing back the air flow. Can anyone explain how that would make it hotter? I thought more air, more fire, more heat?

Thanks for the help

 

[Seasoned Oak]

As far as running the stove, jatoxico mentioned dialing back the air flow. Can anyone explain how that would make it hotter? I thought more air, more fire, more heat?
Thanks for the help

Slowing down the air going thru the stove is a big factor in getting the stove hotter. You may get you another hundred or 2 on the stove top temps which will make all the difference in yur heat output. Its actually the same as adjusting an oil furnace air feed. My NC-30s dont really start heating up until i cut back the air. Full air has the effect of pushing a lot of yur heat up the flue. like an open fireplace.

 

[jatoxico]

Here's the moister meter, let me know if im doing something wrong. Didnt know cold would effect it but this is a fresh split. This read 18.7%.

As long as those prongs are pushed in pretty good and hard then you got it. 19% is a little more believable. Cold does cause meters to read false low.

Your wood seems pretty good and you have a lively fire so lower the air as much as you can while still supporting a good fire, From your video I can't really see if there are any burn tubes (they look like BBQ pipes). If they are there then even with primary air cut back the stove will still introduce air through those and you will get max heat from your wood.

Another 200-300 deg on the stove top is definitely possible and as said, will be a substantial difference in output. Then you're just subject to the limits of your space but that should help.

 

[begreen]

Looks like the wood is not the probable cause. You could cut back on the air. Running the stove wide open puts most of the heat up the flue. Reducing the primary air dumps less cold air into the firebox. The draft then pulls harder on the secondary air which provides more complete combustion in the firebox, where you want it.

 

[Simonkenton]

You should be able to get that stove higher than 400.
Log cabins have a characteristic called "thermal mass." This is not found in framed structures, but it is found in adobe.
It means that the walls are very heavy. Log walls probably weigh 6 times as much as the walls of a framed structure.
The walls do not want to change temperature. If you go up there and the place is 30 degrees, it will take hours to get the house up to 70.
Likewise, once you get it up to 70, even when the stove goes out it will take a long time for the temp to drop down to 60.

 

[Woody Stover]

Here's a decent gif of it going right now. I get some little flames coming out of the air tube. I think that is a secondary burn but I'm not sure.
As far as running the stove, jatoxico mentioned dialing back the air flow. Can anyone explain how that would make it hotter?

Yes, that is the secondary burn. Once you get a new load burned in a bit, start cutting the air in increments. You want good secondary combustion, but lazy flame on the wood. With the air open as far as you apparently have it, you are pulling large amounts of cool air into the box and sending heat up the flue. With a slower fire, heat will build in the box, and the load will last longer at high output. It should be possible to get stove top temps of 600 or over.
As Simon mentioned, thermal mass is an issue. I probably have even more than you do, since our cabin has 1" thick concrete/wallboard. If I let room temp drop, it takes a long time to get it back up. I can only gain a degree an hour. We do have attic insulation.
If you got some decent window film, and apply it correctly, you won't even see it. Get weatherstripping for the door as well. Any air leaks you can seal will help.

 

[rockdude14]

Thanks guys, I think the two far open was a big part of the problem. I'll work on my burning technique next time. Lazy flame and secondary burn, got it. I got weatherstripping and film yesterday and already sealed up the doors. Got the baffle blanket on the way as well and I'll hit up some of the windows next chance I get.

While it is a log-ish cabin, its not the full logs, just D-cuts, so the walls are only about 4-5" thick. So not quite as heavy as your guys places. Its built on the west side of washington so luckily it doesnt get very cold or very hot, but I still do need some heat.