FLASH!!! NEWEST NFPA 211 now requires 18” hearth protection in front oF loading doors

[elkimmeg]

NEWEST NFPA 211 now requires 18” hearth protection in front oF loading doors, which could take precedence over manufactures specs
Especially if the manufacture references the listing to NFPA211 Compliance

Many manuals are written at the time of certification, which is required every 5 years. Even though a 2004 stove certification stove list 16”.
The latest NFPA 211 can be applied and required.

 

[myzamboni]

Gee, I knew about this 4 months ago when buying my Jotul. That's a mighty slow flash . . .

 

[elkimmeg]

Gee, I knew about this 4 months ago when buying my Jotul. That's a mighty slow flash . . .

Honestly I knew even before that when NFPA 2006 was released but with recent hearth extentings being discussed I figured it time to announce it

Please note till 2006 International codes got approved, which was not all that long ago NFPA 211 was not a reconized body of codes. 2006 for the first time
he International codes refferenced in in the mechanial sections. Many states lagded adopting 2003 International codes never mind the 2006.

Thanks for cond firming the 18" and congratulations or being current

And as Chris Walkins says we need more cow bells (Ps inside joke the the previous poster)

 

[myzamboni]

Gee, I knew about this 4 months ago when buying my Jotul. That's a mighty slow flash . . .

Honestly I knew even before that when NFPA 2006 was released but with recent hearth extentings being discussed I figured it time to announce it

Please note till 2006 International codes got approved, which was not all that long ago NFPA 211 was not a reconized body of codes. 2006 for the first time
he International codes refferenced in in the mechanial sections. Many states lagded adopting 2003 International codes never mind the 2006.

Thanks for cond firming the 18" and congratulations or being current

And as Chris Walkins says we need more cow bells (Ps inside joke the the previous poster)

I got a fever . . .

 

[Gooserider]

FWIW, I just went and edited the Hearth Design Wiki article to incorporate the new clearance requirement - I'd already mentioned it a little, but have now made it a definite part of the article, including a note that the 16" value is no longer valid, even if it is in the manuals. Elk, could you double check me to verify that I've described it well?

Gooserider

 

[elkimmeg]

Goose busy day finally weather you feel like you can do something without being baked plus lining up jobs to keep a cash flow comming in

At some time I will give it a look. Honestly I don't know if the move to 18" is as much a safety issue definitely a spark issue but a convience to manufactures to only have one listing in North America is easier for them.. Also I might add in Canada they do not allow direct connettions in masonry flues larger than 8/8 this has been going on for some time.

We approached that by changing the 2003 NFPA211 cross-sectionsl codes. They have required damper block off plates even with the full liner.

I think what we are seeing it movement to being consistant with our neighbors Remember many distances are mininum distances we have post here concerned about how warm their wall feels at the lesser distances. Then again there is no penalty exceeding the distances just an added margine of safety

At times the Hearth pads or extentions should be layed out by the tile covering. Made a bit larger to avoids cuts or tile pieces too cut small, that the job looks botched

I might also add by making the pads a bit bigger once the distance are met they can be trimed with wood moldings giving them a finished look

 

[Gooserider]

Good comments on other reasons to build slightly oversized, I've added them to the article.

Gooserider

 

[Todd]

Why? 2" doesn't make much difference. I have 19" and still have 2 small burnt spots on my carpet from sparks that flew out while reloading and they are 3' away!

 

[elkimmeg]

As I said I think it is more of a convience to manufactures than really protection Why have a stove tested to 2 standards?

If one burns long enough we will see sparks or embers fly beyond normal protection It happens to all of us and also to see burn pot marks in rugs
the saying goes stuff happens.. Also said the clearances are minimums probably covering in most cases incidents.

Part of it is to crack the loading door first .Let the first influx of air have its contriled effect first before fully opening the door.

This method also prevents back puffing of smoke as well One of the nicer features of top loading it it all but eliminates ember flying
Then again crack it first let the fire adjust seems to be the best routine. another way to reduce suprises open the damper open the air,
wait a minute crack the liading door
then load Even with all these cautions unpredictiable poping and ember flying can happen, having a spray bottle near the fire priceless

 

[hearthtools]

I have been told by some manufactures that 18" clearance is due to Radiation to the floor from the Larger glass in newer woodstoves.
Enviro has been showing 18" clearances in Canada for years. when I have a hearth pad made I always have it made 3" larger for wiggle room.
Sometimes you just dont get that support box right at the minimum clearance.

 

[webbie]

Not much difference whether it is 15" or 20", as far as actual real world. It obviously depends on the stove - some have small doors and are unlikely to spew sparks, others have different designs, The former standards were (as I remember) related to door size where smaller doors needed 16" and bigger (certain fireplaces) as much as 18" or 20".

But one of the first complete books on the subject, Wood Burning Safety (or the Wood Burners Encyclopedia) showed exactly what Todd said - that with any measurement there are sparks that can land further out!

So 18" is better than 16" which is better than 15", but not as good as 20". This is what a small spark protector, like a hearth carpet (specially made fire resistant rugs) are a good idea in front of the hearth.

Now we can come up with a new invention - a 2" hearth extender! We can tell the millions of installations out there that they are not up to modern code, but if they buy our new ExtendaHearth, they can peel the backing of, stick it to their existing hearth and get a seal of approval.

Then, in 5 years when they come up with 20", we can sell an extension to the ExtendaHearth......the extendo-extendahearth. Or the adjusto-ExtendaHearth.

 

[Shane]

I've always been more concerned with radiant heat protection than hearth protection. I sold countless hearth extensions etc. by explaining ot my customers that the spark protection is good and no 2" might not make that big of a difference but two inches when considering the intensity of radiant heat could make the difference of house standing and house burning.

 

[webbie]

Heat radiation to the floor in front of (or around) a stove also widely varies from stove to stove. Large glass areas relatively close to the ground have tremendous radiation, and some manuals specify more than the NFPA standards. The same applies to gas fireplaces, which often need ZERO floor protection in front....except for that of radiation, which really penetrates that glass.

It's complete guess, of course, but since NFPA is addressing "generic" stoves as opposed to actual testing, it is probably a combination of both factors that would make them increase the distance. In the related threads of hearth protection, I noticed (when reading the HearthStone manual), that less R-value was required a certain distance in front of the stove - meaning that either radiation fell way off or that it was just for sparks at that point.

Heat radiation as explained years ago by Shelton falls off dramatically at certain (steep) angles. This is why most stoves have closer corner clearances than they do against flat walls, and also why you don't get as sunburned after 4PM. He also explained how stoves with round bodies (like a thelin or pot belly) would, in theory, have much less radiation against a wall since they did not have a flat surface facing another flat surface.