found a new use for ashes

[karri0n]

Yeah, after you boil it down for an hour or so.

Maybe he doesn't have cedar chips?




On a side note, My several outdoor cats often use the ash pile for just such a use, and their feet have not yet fallen off. That ash pile even gets rain on it.


This is really a pointless argument. The fact remains that such a small amount of ash really isn't going to cause a problem. No one is saying you have to put ash in your catbox if you're uncomfortable with it, but don't berate a guy for doing so.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

It's really not related. Look up "straw man arguement"- that is what you are doing. What nasty stuff a cat eats, your CRT display, and any opinion on carbon monoxide in unspent coals are immaterial. Seriously- a Chewbacca Defense of the first kind.

Touch ash with bare hands and they dry out and get irritated. It's a fact. I use ash in glazes and have cleaned my woodstove enough over the years to know this is true. Ash is a great cleaner for greasy pans etc. when camping specifically because of these properties. Cats and dogs may get irritated pads from a number of sources, and I don't see why this irritant might not also be an issue as it is for people. Cat walks through it then licks their paws- not sure if it's an issue, but I wouldn't want my dogs eating or snuffing it up if I could avoid it.

That's enough for me on this. I expressed my concerns as someone who 1) DOES understand the chemistry involved, 2) cares for my pets, and 3) has probably handled and analyzed more wood ash (as a potter and as a chemist) than most home wood burners do. If folks don't think it is an issue or a "chance" so be it- I'm not getting paid for my opinion on this one

 

[Adios Pantalones]

On a side note, My several outdoor cats often use the ash pile for just such a use, and their feet have not yet fallen off. That ash pile even gets rain on it.

Rain leaches out the alkali, making it much safer in short order. This is why I process ash by simple washing with water (often rainwater from my rain buckets, BTW). Dry ash itself will cut the natural oils in your skin. As a paste or on wet hands it's worse. washed out- basically little effect.

 

[danking49]

So, all this time that I've been using a damp rag and wood ash to clean the stove window I've been risking life and limb by not wearing chemical resistant gloves and a resperator? Nonsense, it takes twice as much wood ash as it does lime to treat an equal amount of lawn/garden; and I've never seen a warning label on garden lime to keep pets off the treated area. Wood ash and water = messy; not a skin burning, metal destroying caustic material.
Something else to consider; soap is made from lye! It would take pounds and pounds of concentrated wood ash to create even a moderatly caustic solution.
Draino does not equal Ivory soap just because they both contain lye.

 

[karri0n]

So, all this time that I've been using a damp rag and wood ash to clean the stove window I've been risking life and limb by not wearing chemical resistant gloves and a resperator? Nonsense, it takes twice as much wood ash as it does lime to treat an equal amount of lawn/garden; and I've never seen a warning label on garden lime to keep pets off the treated area. Wood ash and water = messy; not a skin burning, metal destroying caustic material.
Something else to consider; soap is made from lye! It would take pounds and pounds of concentrated wood ash to create even a moderatly caustic solution.
Draino does not equal Ivory soap just because they both contain lye.

I've gotten dran-o on my hands, and with a rinse, even 60 seconds later, didn't get any problems.

 

[burntime]

To each his own. The question is exactly how much risk is it worth? Small, no problem, minor annoyance, keep going. Would you let your kids play in it? Think about the cat on your pillow when you are gone. He is returning the favor! :lol:

 

[Adios Pantalones]

RI- nobody said risking life and limb so stop making things up. I said- irritate the pads of their feet. I use it on my glass as well, but that's every couple of weeks- I don't have pads on my feet or walk in it every time I go to take a leak.

In saponification it is reacted with the fat (which is exactly why it irritates people's hands when they handle it a lot), so the caustic material is not present after hydrolysis.

"It would take pounds and pounds of concentrated wood ash to create even a moderatly caustic solution."

It would take very little to make a small amount of caustic solution. You are mixing your units on that one

 

[karri0n]

AP, actually, someone did say life and limb when they made the black lung comment.(not sure who). My argument really is not with you. My contention is that it's been made out to be excessively dangerous, when in reality, a scoop into the cat litter which will absorb moisture, thereby preventing lye from being formed in the first place, really isn't going to cause any health issues with the animal. It's been shown that the oils used in the perfumes of some cat litters cause liver and kidney problems, which I consider a bit worse than a dry skin issue.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

True- and pine shavings and cedar shavings contain volatiles that give issues to smaller animals (I use plain wood pellets for my rabbit boxes- works excellent).

It may not be an instant killer, but I do know that some critters get irritated feet easily and it's not going to wash out when it's applied dry on top of litter. Some animals do also get sneezey/wheezey irritation (my snub-nosed dogs in particular) and this might be another source aside from the normal bentonite and kaolin (or whatever they use now) as it's actually chemically active rather than just a dust irritant. Something to watch for I suppose is all.

 

[danking49]

"In days long gone pouring water through wood ash yielded Potassium Hydroxide, as has been said already, LYE! Very, very caustic. If it will corrode metal in no time flat,.."

Pyro, had I been quoting your post you might have a point but..

I certainly wouldn't want my four legged hairball tracking wood ash all over the house, but it's a real stretch to equate sprinkling a few ashes into the litter box with visions of metal corroding caustic lye.

 

[lecomte38]

I can't believe I read this whole f'in thread.

 

[meathead]

Karrion - boil what down? You add soft water to wood ash, let sit, filter out the ash and the remaining solution is liquid lye. Boiling it down leaves you with solid lye - at least that's my understanding, maybe I'm wrong?

And swamp yankee - the ph change that takes place over the 6 months following a lime application takes place after just 1 heavy rain on a wood ash application. You use twice as much because the alkaline agents in the water solluble portion of wood ash do not bond to soil as well as those in lime and they are washed down through the soil more rapidly. And yeah, soap is made from lye...lye burns were very common and badly scarring during soap production from wood ash and animal fat.

Look bottom line is the wood ash is alkaline enough to aggrivate the cat's foot pads and the particulates from the very light, very easily airborn dust from wood ash will be harmfull to their lungs. The cats aren't going to start a full blown lye factory in the basement - but it seems to me that the water solluble caustic agent in the wood ash would react with the oils on their skin and coats causind dryness and irritation and may well leach into their urine furthering the aggrivation to their foot pads as they dig through their boxes. Foot pads are very sensitive. An irritant as mild as salt will leave a cat or dog limping after brief exposure.

 

[burntime]

I know, I feel like lyeing my eyes out! Pass the wood ash :lol:

 

[Adios Pantalones]

LOL! I made rawhide from a deer skin once by soaking in wood ash and water. all the hair slips off, the fat in the skin dissolves... Real Jeff Dahmer stuff. A potter friend had a serious skin problem after using their hand to mix cold water and ash once in making a glaze. As you can imagine- a potter lives by their hands, and it was a serious issue for a bit.

 

[karri0n]

Karrion - boil what down? You add soft water to wood ash, let sit, filter out the ash and the remaining solution is liquid lye. Boiling it down leaves you with solid lye - at least that's my understanding, maybe I'm wrong?

And swamp yankee - the ph change that takes place over the 6 months following a lime application takes place after just 1 heavy rain on a wood ash application. You use twice as much because the alkaline agents in the water solluble portion of wood ash do not bond to soil as well as those in lime and they are washed down through the soil more rapidly. And yeah, soap is made from lye...lye burns were very common and badly scarring during soap production from wood ash and animal fat.

Look bottom line is the wood ash is alkaline enough to aggrivate the cat's foot pads and the particulates from the very light, very easily airborn dust from wood ash will be harmfull to their lungs. The cats aren't going to start a full blown lye factory in the basement - but it seems to me that the water solluble caustic agent in the wood ash would react with the oils on their skin and coats causind dryness and irritation and may well leach into their urine furthering the aggrivation to their foot pads as they dig through their boxes. Foot pads are very sensitive. An irritant as mild as salt will leave a cat or dog limping after brief exposure.

Not quite, you end up with lye mixed with mostly water. When you boil it down you get higher concentrations of lye, and this is the chemical that can be hazardous.

 

[burntime]

Dude, your arguing chemical make-up with a chemist? Argue about something else...weather, fishing, canoeing, anything but the chemical make-up and the acidity with a chemist...he could bore you the death before you know it! In the end all you could do is throw lye on him :lol:

 

[kenny chaos]

Sometimes I've gotten ashes on my feet while fire walking. It's only a problem if I was feline footing around. :lol:

 

[Jags]

OK, now the last 2 comments actually made reading this thread worth the time. :lol:

And for what its worth (not much), I am throwing my hat into the "bad idea" ring.

 

[meathead]

Not quite, you end up with lye mixed with mostly water.

...ok so what you end up with isn't "liquid lye", its "liquid containing lye" or a "liquid lye solution". Let's call it, oh I don't know, liquid lye. Heck must be perfectly safe.

You use 1/2 cup wood ashes per gallon of water to disolve the fat out of a deer hide and detatch the hair from the skin. It don't take much - nasty stuff.

 

[termv]

Why risk possibly causing irritation to your pet? If it's because you can't stand the smell of the cat, take it to your local rescue so they can find a home that understands cats poop and pee inside your house and it does smell. Maybe buy one of those cat boxes that flush with water/solution, clean the box and litter, and then flush down the septic/sewer after the cat leaves. www.catgenie.com

 

[meathead]

I notice the OP has given up all hope of usefull input from us idjuts and moved on with their life. Good call OP, good call.

 

[karri0n]

I notice the OP has given up all hope of usefull input from us idjuts and moved on with their life. Good call OP, good call.

That, I agree with.

 

[meathead]

This argument should never have occured without a case of beer and a row of seats next to a good fire in the equation. To sum up the thread - some folks wouldn't put ashes in their cat box...others are fine with it as long as they don't see any signs of irritation.

If beer were involved someone (probably me) would no doubt have proposed that it depends entirely on whether the wood was burned North/South or East/West and we at least could have gotten some good entertainment out of the deal.

 

[cityevader]

I saw a show (History channel?) about the beginnings of kitty litter. For as long as domestic cats have been living indoors, people have been using ashes for litter box. Not until someone early 1900's or so, developed kiln dried clay as we now know it for the litterbox.