FP30 custom heat distribution system

[fpgeek]

Hi fellow stove and fireplace enthusiasms!

Long time lurker, it's now time for me to post on this great forum.

A little bit of background first. I had a Pacific Energy FP25 installed in my (now sold) cottage few years ago, I really enjoyed the heat output of this unit! Well built, but with few annoyances:
- burned wood too quick, fixed by blocking two-third of the OAK (outside air kit)
- east-west wood configuration can be stressful sometimes when fully loading the box, always a risk of a log rolling in the glass
- the door was mis-aligned from factory, fixed it myself
- an electrical wire was pinched between two metal plate from factory, shorting the circuit, this one took a while to diagnosis, fixed by the dealer
- the Pacific Energy heat distribution system is noisy and cheap, but was really efficient in heating the basement (once installed correctly, more on that later)!

Now I have a new bigger house being built, and decided to go with the FP30. It's been delivered few days ago and will be installed tomorrow. What a beast!

A first observation, something I've read here also: it is damn hard to find a qualified professional to install the heat distribution system. It's true now, and it was true few years ago for my FP25.

At the time, the fireplace dealer installed the Pacific Energy heat distribution system for the FP25 with soft duct, with the vent outlet in the basement ceiling, and the heat output was poor at best. The soft duct seemed to pulsate when trying to push hot air downward, resulting in very little air flow. The outlet in the ceiling was a poor decision also, hot air stayed there, leaving the rest of the basement cold. Moreover, they didn't want to touch the electrical part if it, neither my electrician (what I wanted was too custom for them). I ended up removing all the system and re-doing it myself, with solid duct, venting at 2-3 feet from the floor, with the electrical setup I wanted (one switch to activate either the fireplace fan or the heat distribution fan).

Now for the new house, the fireplace dealer (a different dealer) didn't want to install it, told me to ask the HVAC guy, who didn't want to touch this. Good chance also it would have been installed wrong again, so I do it myself this time! Since the Pacific Energy kit was cheap, I opted for something else. SBI (the company behind Valcourt, Osbourn, Drolet and other brands), sell a better kit (VA4460 Forced Air Distribution Kit), with a superb fan that is a lot quieter and efficient than the Pacific Energy kit. The dealer accepted to sell me the kit and approved my installation with the FP30. Great!

I have installed the fan and duct already, but here's the question I have for you folks: there are two parts from the Pacific Energy heat distribution kit that needs to be installed on the FP30: an adapter (part #1, WODC.9128) and a backflow damper (#3, WODC.7940).

Obviously I don't have those, and they're not sold separately. I know other guys here have installed their own custom heat transfer system, what have you done for the connection to the FP30? For the others, what would you do? Is the backflow damper really needed? Could it be installed somewhere else in the duct?

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

A good sheet metal shop should be able to provide these parts. The duct adapter looks like it is what the sheet metal business calls a start collar or a duct take-off. What size is this, 6"? 6" round backdraft dampers are common for range hoods.
Here are some 6" round examples of stock items.
(broken link removed)
(broken link removed)

 

[Stanger12GT]

Now we are in heating season any updates on this thread? Just curious how you made out on this one.

 

[fpgeek]

Here's an update: I made it work by using the duct adapter that came with the SBI VA4460 Forced Air Distribution Kit, and I skipped the backflow damper as I couldn't find an equivalent and it didn't seem necessary.

The whole setup works awesome so far, very happy! The heat distribution to the basement is extremely efficient, and the SBI VA4460 is so quiet compared to the cheap fan of the Pacific Energy heat distribution kit.

As for the FP30: what a beast. It burns wood very well, north-south loading is great. I like it better than my previous FP25. Only two minor annoyances: just like everyone with those pacific energy fireplaces, I had to block 2/3rd of the OAK to extend my burn time. Also the location of the thermoswitch for the integrated fan is also not optimal, I'll probably have move it to a place closer to the heat, where it turns on earlier. But overall, I'm a fan of those Pacific Energy fireplaces.

 

[Stanger12GT]

Here's an update: I made it work by using the duct adapter that came with the SBI VA4460 Forced Air Distribution Kit, and I skipped the backflow damper as I couldn't find an equivalent and it didn't seem necessary.

The whole setup works awesome so far, very happy! The heat distribution to the basement is extremely efficient, and the SBI VA4460 is so quiet compared to the cheap fan of the Pacific Energy heat distribution kit.

As for the FP30: what a beast. It burns wood very well, north-south loading is great. I like it better than my previous FP25. Only two minor annoyances: just like everyone with those pacific energy fireplaces, I had to block 2/3rd of the OAK to extend my burn time. Also the location of the thermoswitch for the integrated fan is also not optimal, I'll probably have move it to a place closer to the heat, where it turns on earlier. But overall, I'm a fan of those Pacific Energy fireplaces.

Awesome that’s good to hear!

I had my heart set on the Valcourt Waterloo from SBI and had it on order for 12 weeks only to find out they said it would be another year! I liked the forced air kit as well on that unit and a major reason I was wanting to go with it

So back to the drawing board I went and decided on the PE FP30.

It’s installed and I have only had two fires to break it in and you are right what a beast! It just got cold here and I’m looking forward to running it. I have some other renovation projects going on in the house so hopefully I’ll be able to start using it soon.

It was the only unit that used the backdraft damper on the fireplace itself which I thought was odd as well. I have mine hooked up to my main trunk line in the forced air duct in the house so I have the backdraft damper on both ends as I did use those parts from the kit. With the one fan did a good job at moving the heat throughout the house I was happy with it. I’m going to add another fan to get some more airflow and heat going in the ducts I probably don’t need it to be honest but I’d rather not need it than wished I had it later on. I ended up going with the AC infinity fans like others went with they are quiet but I am going to add their silencers on them as well.

The north south loading was a big advantage on this unit as well.

Im getting cold air coming through the outside air vent as well which I believe was installer error. They piped it directly in and I believe there should be a loop in the hose to act as a trap so I am going to redo that before I close it up.

I’m coming from a mid 1990’s open Heatilator fireplace that I took out to this it’s such a game changer for my house I’m looking forward to burning some wood this winter!

Cheers!

 

[fpgeek]

Im getting cold air coming through the outside air vent as well which I believe was installer error. They piped it directly in and I believe there should be a loop in the hose to act as a trap so I am going to redo that before I close it up.

I've re-checked the installation manual and they don't mention a loop in the outside air supply pipe. I've had two different setups, the one for the FP25 had a very short air pipe (less than 4'), and never had major issues with cold air coming in the fireplace. It is normal, when the fireplace is not hot, to get some cold air from the flu, maybe that's what you feel?

 

[Stanger12GT]

I've re-checked the installation manual and they don't mention a loop in the outside air supply pipe. I've had two different setups, the one for the FP25 had a very short air pipe (less than 4'), and never had major issues with cold air coming in the fireplace. It is normal, when the fireplace is not hot, to get some cold air from the flu, maybe that's what you feel?

Yes the manual is silent on this for the FP30 they don’t even recommend a specific type of hose for the outside air like other manufacturers do. I have seen other manufactures recommend the loop in the hose. My installer used gas metal flex pipe which is another issue.

Yes it’s 100% coming in from the outside air hose. It condensates when open and when I completely block it off from the outside it doesn’t condensate and I get no cold air coming in

Mine is very short run it’s less than 3’ and goes straight in next to the fireplace. Im going to redo it with insulated flex duct, put a loop in it and also change out the vent cap on the outside of the house and see what happens. I hope to get to that this weekend.

My fireplace and chase are all inside the house and the exterior wall is completely insulated and walls closed off. The chimney is 25’ and straight up. This thing has an excellent draft when starting the fire I was impressed.

I’m glad you are not having any issues with cold air coming in the outside air vent

 

[fpgeek]

Yes the manual is silent on this for the FP30 they don’t even recommend a specific type of hose for the outside air like other manufacturers do. I have seen other manufactures recommend the loop in the hose. My installer used gas metal flex pipe which is another issue.

Yes it’s 100% coming in from the outside air hose. It condensates when open and when I completely block it off from the outside it doesn’t condensate and I get no cold air coming in

Mine is very short run it’s less than 3’ and goes straight in next to the fireplace. Im going to redo it with insulated flex duct, put a loop in it and also change out the vent cap on the outside of the house and see what happens. I hope to get to that this weekend.

My fireplace and chase are all inside the house and the exterior wall is completely insulated and walls closed off. The chimney is 25’ and straight up. This thing has an excellent draft when starting the fire I was impressed.

I’m glad you are not having any issues with cold air coming in the outside air vent

Ah, yes then if it's straight 3', it could definitively be a problem, and having a loop could make sense. Insulated is also a must, you're right. They installed a polyester insulated flex pipe on mine. If you have a 25' chimney, you'll also have to block at least half of fresh air vent cap outside, to reduce the draft, get more efficiency and increase the overnight burn time. I simply squeezed a wood bloc of 2x3 in mine, next to the vent cap.

 

[Stanger12GT]

Ah, yes then if it's straight 3', it could definitively be a problem, and having a loop could make sense. Insulated is also a must, you're right. They installed a polyester insulated flex pipe on mine. If you have a 25' chimney, you'll also have to block at least half of fresh air vent cap outside, to reduce the draft, get more efficiency and increase the overnight burn time. I simply squeezed a wood bloc of 2x3 in mine, next to the vent cap.

Awesome good to know! I did talk to the installer after and they said the insulated flex hose is fine for it. I checked the bottom when I had it running with a hot fire and it does not get that warm down there.

They said they used the metal flex gas pipe because “that’s what they have” it gets cold here and the insulated duct is a must and the manual does reference that just not what type.

That’s good to know blocking off the outside air vent to increase burn times. These things really do breathe well in was impressed with the draft when I started the first fire.

 

[begreen]

Yes the manual is silent on this for the FP30 they don’t even recommend a specific type of hose for the outside air like other manufacturers do. I have seen other manufactures recommend the loop in the hose. My installer used gas metal flex pipe which is another issue.

Yes it’s 100% coming in from the outside air hose. It condensates when open and when I completely block it off from the outside it doesn’t condensate and I get no cold air coming in

Mine is very short run it’s less than 3’ and goes straight in next to the fireplace. Im going to redo it with insulated flex duct, put a loop in it and also change out the vent cap on the outside of the house and see what happens. I hope to get to that this weekend.

My fireplace and chase are all inside the house and the exterior wall is completely insulated and walls closed off. The chimney is 25’ and straight up. This thing has an excellent draft when starting the fire I was impressed.

I’m glad you are not having any issues with cold air coming in the outside air vent

This could be because of prevailing winds blowing on the intake side of the house. If the loop doesn't fix the issue you might want to add a remote shut off valve.

 

[Stanger12GT]

This could be because of prevailing winds blowing on the intake side of the house. If the loop doesn't fix the issue you might want to add a remote shut off valve.

Yes the winds do have an impact on how much air comes in. Luckily the fireplace is installed on the east side of the house and typically the winds come from the west. We can get east winds especially in winter storms though.

I did reroute and extend the ducting with R6 insulated flex duct added a couple loops and that helped a lot. With the air control on max air the outside air no longer comes into the room, with it all the way set on the low setting I still feel some
air coming in. I’ll just keep it set on high when it’s not in use.

I’m on an exterior wall and I have no way to add a manual shut off damper. An electric one would work but that’s another part that would fail in an enclosed chase and I don’t want that.

I’ll see how it goes over the next month and see how it goes but overall I’m happy with no air coming in the room on the max air setting.

 

[AlaskaNorth]

Awesome that’s good to hear!

I had my heart set on the Valcourt Waterloo from SBI and had it on order for 12 weeks only to find out they said it would be another year! I liked the forced air kit as well on that unit and a major reason I was wanting to go with it

So back to the drawing board I went and decided on the PE FP30.

It’s installed and I have only had two fires to break it in and you are right what a beast! It just got cold here and I’m looking forward to running it. I have some other renovation projects going on in the house so hopefully I’ll be able to start using it soon.

It was the only unit that used the backdraft damper on the fireplace itself which I thought was odd as well. I have mine hooked up to my main trunk line in the forced air duct in the house so I have the backdraft damper on both ends as I did use those parts from the kit. With the one fan did a good job at moving the heat throughout the house I was happy with it. I’m going to add another fan to get some more airflow and heat going in the ducts I probably don’t need it to be honest but I’d rather not need it than wished I had it later on. I ended up going with the AC infinity fans like others went with they are quiet but I am going to add their silencers on them as well.

The north south loading was a big advantage on this unit as well.

Im getting cold air coming through the outside air vent as well which I believe was installer error. They piped it directly in and I believe there should be a loop in the hose to act as a trap so I am going to redo that before I close it up.

I’m coming from a mid 1990’s open Heatilator fireplace that I took out to this it’s such a game changer for my house I’m looking forward to burning some wood this winter!

Cheers!

I've got the Valcourt Waterloo and have been messing with the VA4460 for a few weeks. I originally tried to tie it right into my main plenum where my ducts distribute to the rooms. This didn't work, too much pressure to overcome. How did you tie yours in? Tieing it into one duct it works excellent, tons of heat and airflow..I'm planning on doing three rooms with zone dampers and a customer smart)home automation solution to it. This is because I don't think the fan will have enough power to drive three rooms worth. I looked at the AC Infinity fan but was worried it can't handle the heat. I ran a 50 foot test run with insulated flex duct to my garage. It's pumping out air at 125 degrees. It took my temp from 52 to 58 today and my garage is a 4 car.

 

[AlaskaNorth]

Here's an update: I made it work by using the duct adapter that came with the SBI VA4460 Forced Air Distribution Kit, and I skipped the backflow damper as I couldn't find an equivalent and it didn't seem necessary.

The whole setup works awesome so far, very happy! The heat distribution to the basement is extremely efficient, and the SBI VA4460 is so quiet compared to the cheap fan of the Pacific Energy heat distribution kit.

As for the FP30: what a beast. It burns wood very well, north-south loading is great. I like it better than my previous FP25. Only two minor annoyances: just like everyone with those pacific energy fireplaces, I had to block 2/3rd of the OAK to extend my burn time. Also the location of the thermoswitch for the integrated fan is also not optimal, I'll probably have move it to a place closer to the heat, where it turns on earlier. But overall, I'm a fan of those Pacific Energy fireplaces.

Interested in the blocking of the OAK. I was thinking of doing the same. I have a relatively short 7 foot run with rigid duct. In my Valcourt Waterloo I can't get burn times longer than 4-5 hours on low. Definitely made a difference for you?

 

[fpgeek]

Interested in the blocking of the OAK. I was thinking of doing the same. I have a relatively short 7 foot run with rigid duct. In my Valcourt Waterloo I can't get burn times longer than 4-5 hours on low. Definitely made a difference for you?

I've learned that the burn times depend on a few factors: size of logs, placement of logs, how quick you turn down air, and more importantly the draft you have in the fireplace. Longer chimney makes more draft, and blocking partially the air input is a good way to reduce the draft. It made a good difference in my FP25 5 years ago, and it does now with the FP30. I went from being barely able to restart a fire on the coal the next morning, to having glowing red chunks still visible and ready to start a fire within 30 seconds. It seems to burn the wood more completely also: if I don't refuel the next morning, eventually all I get at the end of the day is very fine ash, no chunks at all.

 

[AlaskaNorth]

I've learned that the burn times depend on a few factors: size of logs, placement of logs, how quick you turn down air, and more importantly the draft you have in the fireplace. Longer chimney makes more draft, and blocking partially the air input is a good way to reduce the draft. It made a good difference in my FP25 5 years ago, and it does now with the FP30. I went from being barely able to restart a fire on the coal the next morning, to having glowing red chunks still visible and ready to start a fire within 30 seconds. It seems to burn the wood more completely also: if I don't refuel the next morning, eventually all I get at the end of the day is very fine ash, no chunks at all.

Thanks! Yeah this is the issue I'm aiming to solve. I have excellent draft, almost too good. When I turn the Valcourt to low it's what I would consider medium. Now, it's an epa rated non cat fireplace so I don't know how much of it is the electronics vs the OAK but Valcourt states a loaded box should burn 9-10hrs. We're getting 3-4 max. An additional disadvantage is our wood. Spruce and white birch here in Alaska. I've burned in the lower 48 with all the beautiful hardwoods and they definitely would help. The birch does better, longer and hotter. All that being said 3-4hrs sucks. On a good note, at -10 degrees the house was 78. Too hot is a good problem to have but we're absolutely tearing through the wood pile at this point. Makes me wonder with all regulations, was the cure worse than the disease. Are we now burning 33 to 50 percent more wood to accommodate the EPA emissions? Either way I'll give the OAK a shot. Perhaps a damper is in order.

 

[Stanger12GT]

I've got the Valcourt Waterloo and have been messing with the VA4460 for a few weeks. I originally tried to tie it right into my main plenum where my ducts distribute to the rooms. This didn't work, too much pressure to overcome. How did you tie yours in? Tieing it into one duct it works excellent, tons of heat and airflow..I'm planning on doing three rooms with zone dampers and a customer smart)home automation solution to it. This is because I don't think the fan will have enough power to drive three rooms worth. I looked at the AC Infinity fan but was worried it can't handle the heat. I ran a 50 foot test run with insulated flex duct to my garage. It's pumping out air at 125 degrees. It took my temp from 52 to 58 today and my garage is a 4 car.

Probably a lot of variables on this and how your ducts are run will contribute to it. With the one fan that is correct you are not going to get a ton of airflow through all the ducts. Some more air than others depending on how the ducts are laid out. Mine are all sheet metal ducts and I tied in the main plenum with a 6” take off and have a backdraft damper added before it dumps in the main plenum. I tied in about 6’ down the main plenum before the room ducts start splitting off. I’ve only had two fires since I’m still working on other renovation projects in the house and my temps varied from over 100 to 80’s in all the ducts. So I haven’t had a lot of experience with my set up yet. On the PE FP 30 you can add two hot air kits so I’m going to add a second one to increase airflow get more heat at the same time in the ducts. My house is a two story 1,870 sq ft plus 900 in the basement so not huge.

Did you just install the Waterloo? I really had me heart set on that one and curious to how you like it this season. I’ve learned in looking at them all there was no perfect fireplace they all had their pros and cons.

 

[AlaskaNorth]

I did the same exact thing. Although I have a single story home that spans out a little bit wider it's about 2100 ft². I also roughed in the blower kit and wasn't really worried about stretching the flex duct perfectly and all of that I will when I'm ready to fully install. I just don't think there was enough air flow to pressurize all of the ductwork. Also it's a hydronic system so I don't know how much airflow is escaping into the return ducks as well or if that's even possible, however I don't see any mechanism for a reason there would be any kind of backflow damper between the outlet plenum, the blower, and the return plenum.. I'm actually okay with it as in the direction I'm going to go is only run flex duct and tie them in to the existing duct work right before the register in the crawl space to a few rooms. Having a go through the whole house system would have continued to make it too hot in the main room where the fireplace is. When it reaches a certain temperature it's going to be blowing into my garage, unless one of three rooms is calling for the heat.

As for the Valcourt, It's the best wood burning device I've ever owned. We've been using it for almost 2 months solid burning daily and nightly. I haven't really pushed it too hard because I haven't needed to. We had a little bit of a cold snap last week where it was minus 15 at night and we held easily at 76 in the main room with medium to low burning. The only complaint that I have about the unit is getting longer burn times seems to be very difficult overnight. Otherwise it's absolutely great unit. Looks awesome, works very well and is extremely capable.

 

[Stanger12GT]

I did the same exact thing. Although I have a single story home that spans out a little bit wider it's about 2100 ft². I also roughed in the blower kit and wasn't really worried about stretching the flex duct perfectly and all of that I will when I'm ready to fully install. I just don't think there was enough air flow to pressurize all of the ductwork. Also it's a hydronic system so I don't know how much airflow is escaping into the return ducks as well or if that's even possible, however I don't see any mechanism for a reason there would be any kind of backflow damper between the outlet plenum, the blower, and the return plenum.. I'm actually okay with it as in the direction I'm going to go is only run flex duct and tie them in to the existing duct work right before the register in the crawl space to a few rooms. Having a go through the whole house system would have continued to make it too hot in the main room where the fireplace is. When it reaches a certain temperature it's going to be blowing into my garage, unless one of three rooms is calling for the heat.

As for the Valcourt, It's the best wood burning device I've ever owned. We've been using it for almost 2 months solid burning daily and nightly. I haven't really pushed it too hard because I haven't needed to. We had a little bit of a cold snap last week where it was minus 15 at night and we held easily at 76 in the main room with medium to low burning. The only complaint that I have about the unit is getting longer burn times seems to be very difficult overnight. Otherwise it's absolutely great unit. Looks awesome, works very well and is extremely capable.

Awesome I am glad you are happy with the Valcourt! That’s amazing amazing that it held the temp at 76 at -15! The Waterloo is beautiful and the main reason I wanted it. I would guess it’s probably the type of wood you are burning on getting the most out of the burn times. I started my PE FP30 Thursday night and it’s easily been burning through the nights but I’ve been burning large mixed hardwood splits. I’m very happy with the FP30 so far my furnace hasn’t been on since I lit the fire I love it!! I had an old open Heatilator fireplace I took out and replaced with the FP30 and this is my first experience with this kind of fireplace and it is a total game changer for the house the heat output is amazing and uses very little wood!

 

[Jiri]

Hi, I've been reading this forum since the spring of this year when I bought the FP30 and have been thrilled. In August, I plugged in the insert and tested it when the temperature outside dropped to 13 degrees Celsius. I have been heating continuously since September and until last week, when the temperatures were at least around 0 degrees, it was still possible, but now, when the temperatures have dropped to -8 degrees Celsius, the insert does not have time to heat the house. To be precise, the house is 2 floors + basement and I am trying to heat the whole house with the distribution systems, so far the distribution systems are temporary. I blow through one pipe to the basement, the second to the floor where the FP30 is and the third to the upper floor. The fan has a draft of up to 1000 m3/h, but it usually runs at 50%. The temperature blown into the pipe is about 50-60 degrees Celsius. The house has an area for heating of approx. 270 m2. Two floors and each 120m2 and in the basement one room 30m2. The house is not insulated, it has new plastic windows with double glazing and 6 chambers.
I will attach a photo of the house and a photo of the fireplace. Do you think the house is above the limit of this insert?

 

[fpgeek]

Hi, I've been reading this forum since the spring of this year when I bought the FP30 and have been thrilled. In August, I plugged in the insert and tested it when the temperature outside dropped to 13 degrees Celsius. I have been heating continuously since September and until last week, when the temperatures were at least around 0 degrees, it was still possible, but now, when the temperatures have dropped to -8 degrees Celsius, the insert does not have time to heat the house. To be precise, the house is 2 floors + basement and I am trying to heat the whole house with the distribution systems, so far the distribution systems are temporary. I blow through one pipe to the basement, the second to the floor where the FP30 is and the third to the upper floor. The fan has a draft of up to 1000 m3/h, but it usually runs at 50%. The temperature blown into the pipe is about 50-60 degrees Celsius. The house has an area for heating of approx. 270 m2. Two floors and each 120m2 and in the basement one room 30m2. The house is not insulated, it has new plastic windows with double glazing and 6 chambers.
I will attach a photo of the house and a photo of the fireplace. Do you think the house is above the limit of this insert?

2900 square feet, not isolated, you're going to waste a lot of wood trying to heat that house. Invest on insulation and air tightness first, you should see a huge difference.

 

[Jiri]

2900 square feet, not isolated, you're going to waste a lot of wood trying to heat that house. Invest on insulation and air tightness first, you should see a huge difference.

Do you think that after the insulation, this insert will have no problem heating the house?

 

[fpgeek]

Yes. I heat 3000 square feet total here with the FP30, at -15 celcius, no problem. Our house plan is quite open so that helps distributing the heat.

 

[painful100]

With all the talks of the FP30 not dampening down enough and people partially blocking their OAK, I wonder if the 2nd air intake underneath the unit does not have a cover plate? Page 22 in manual mentions this but it’s unclear if there is supposed to be a plate. I just installed my unit with an OAK and noticed that the opposite side is open. Dealer says this is normal, but I’m not so sure I believe it, any advice here?

 

[begreen]

Most of that talk is for tall chimneys in cold climates. It's not likely to be an issue with a 1 story chimney in a mild climate like Santa Cruz.

 

[fpgeek]

With all the talks of the FP30 not dampening down enough and people partially blocking their OAK, I wonder if the 2nd air intake underneath the unit does not have a cover plate? Page 22 in manual mentions this but it’s unclear if there is supposed to be a plate. I just installed my unit with an OAK and noticed that the opposite side is open. Dealer says this is normal, but I’m not so sure I believe it, any advice here?

I would say it's not normal, the opposite side should be closed.