Freestanding Stove or Insert for 2100 sq ft 2-story

[dreezon]

Hi everyone, I've had my eyes on the Woodstock Fireview for some time, and I keep coming back to it, but lately I'm wondering if an insert might actually be better.

Here's the breakdown of my situation.
—2-story house (1100 down; 1000 up)
—No insulation in walls but new double-paned windows
—Centrally located masonry chimney (30 ft) w/o a clay liner
—Good sized masonry firebox that sits at floor level
—12-inch marble surround and wooden mantel beyond that (picture attached)
—Fairly divided floorplan but with large french doors to back side of house
—Open staircase at end of house
—Also, there is some possibility that I will move in the next couple of years and would like to take the heating unit with me

I know I would have to build a hearth pad for the freestanding stove, and I'm planning to install whatever I get with the help of my father.

I know some of the inserts claim a larger btu output than the Fireview, but I do like the idea of the more even heat from the Fireview. I've kinda ruled out Hearthstone because of the price difference and because my local dealer is kind of surly.

Thoughts? Recommendations on best insert?

 

[begreen]

First recommendation, get some insulation in the walls and attic. Second would be be look at stoves you like and note clearances to trim and mantle requirements. I'm thinking a flush insert may be a good compromise so that the woodwork stays.

 

[dreezon]

I would love to have my house insulated, but the cost is prohibitive at this time. It's a brick house, which complicates the matter considerably. Ideally, I would do both, but I think I will achieve greater immediate savings with the stove, especially in light of the fact that I have a 30-yr-old furnace. My highest bill last year was $460, and that was keeping the thermostat at 66º. I may, however add some insulation in the attic, since that is a little more affordable.

As for the clearances, I've researched all that. The woodstock people say I can put the stove right in front of the opening if I put a little heat shield in to protect the bottom edge of the mantel trim. Clearance does appear to be less of an issue with Hearthstone, but the price is still $500 or more higher.

What do you consider to be the advantages/disadvantages of the insert—besides the obvious matter of not sticking out into the room? Will it heat just as effectively as similarly rated stove?

 

[begreen]

The advantages for heating are generally with a free-standing stove, especially in a power outage. And it is quieter without a blower. Sounds like you are doing your homework. This will be a nice setting for the stove. Will the hearth will need to be extended a bit?

 

[dreezon]

That's what I thought intuitively, mostly since it has three sides exposed to the room. Yeah, I will build a hearth pad large enough to provide the distance specified by the manufacturer (can't remember the number right now).

I am doing my research, but right now, I feel like I'm losing my mind.

 

[jimml]

get insulation in your house it pays for itself!
I've been in the insul biz and they can drill and blow the walls from the inside.
I see in the pix your home is very nice, stress to the company to keep it that way.
Hire a sheetrock finisher to fix the holes, I wouldn't have the insulation company do it it is not their specialty.
You can have the walls done from the outside but they must remove a brick at each cavity, and the replacement brick is usually noticeable if you are looking for it.
eavery time I was ready to paint a room with an exterior wall, I would have it insulated.

 

[madrone]

Another voice on insulation. Do the attic. I noticed a huge diff with not much expense or time invested. Do the walls later, but do the attic.

 

[dreezon]

get insulation in your house it pays for itself!
I've been in the insul biz and they can drill and blow the walls from the inside.
I see in the pix your home is very nice, stress to the company to keep it that way.
Hire a sheetrock finisher to fix the holes, I wouldn't have the insulation company do it it is not their specialty.
You can have the walls done from the outside but they must remove a brick at each cavity, and the replacement brick is usually noticeable if you are looking for it.
eavery time I was ready to paint a room with an exterior wall, I would have it insulated.

I'm sure it does pay for itself, and as I said, I would really like to do it, but as a freelance writer with an unsteady supply of work, I only have so much cash to work with. I think the stove will provide a bigger, faster payoff, but if I get a good full-time gig, I probably wouldn't waste much time getting the insulation done too.

I'm sure prices are a little different where you are, but what kind of money do you suppose I might be looking at for a 2000 square-foot house—assuming I have them do it from the inside?

I can do the plaster work myself. I'm good at that sort of thing, so I could probably save some money there.

 

[dreezon]

Another voice on insulation. Do the attic. I noticed a huge diff with not much expense or time invested. Do the walls later, but do the attic.

Yeah, that's what a home energy consultant said as well. He said the basement and attic are the biggest areas of heat transfer. I need to pull up some of the floor boards and insulate under the middle then top off the part that's open.

If only I had the money to save so much money! My car needs new tires, my porch needs tuckpointing, my attic basement and walls need insulating, my furnace is 31 years old, etc., etc. You have to prioritize and draw the line somewhere.

 

[branchburner]

Keep in mind your 30% credit can apply to certain insulation as well as the stove (though that may eat up most of the $1500 anyway) and insulation surely will help the resale value. If you do move I would think a stove is a better thing than an insert to pack up.

I would opt for the stove because of the greater radiant heat without use of a blower. I do think, though, an insert could look really great with the marble surround. (Do marble and soapstone clash? I'll have to ask my wife.)

With an insulated liner, a good install and nice dry wood, I think either option will do well for you heat-wise. Maybe the deciding factor should be less practical-minded and rest with what looks and feels right to you, and whether having a stove taking up the extra floor space in that room is a plus or a minus. It's win-win, so don't drive yourself nuts!

 

[dreezon]

The advantages for heating are generally with a free-standing stove, especially in a power outage. And it is quieter without a blower. Sounds like you are doing your homework. This will be a nice setting for the stove. Will the hearth will need to be extended a bit?

Regarding the hearth... yes it does need to be extended—8 inches minimum for the Fireview. I just purchased a bunch of slate tile and am planning a hearth pad like the ones described on Woodstock's web site—cement board and tile over a plywood backing—which will just lie on top of the existing hearth tiles and extend out over the hardwood floor. Fortunately, it's not too much of an intrusion into the room. That's one advantage of the side-loading fireview, because most others require at least twice the clearance to the front of the hearth.

 

[dreezon]

Keep in mind your 30% credit can apply to certain insulation as well as the stove (though that may eat up most of the $1500 anyway) and insulation surely will help the resale value. If you do move I would think a stove is a better thing than an insert to pack up.

I would opt for the stove because of the greater radiant heat without use of a blower. I do think, though, an insert could look really great with the marble surround. (Do marble and soapstone clash? I'll have to ask my wife.)

With an insulated liner, a good install and nice dry wood, I think either option will do well for you heat-wise. Maybe the deciding factor should be less practical-minded and rest with what looks and feels right to you, and whether having a stove taking up the extra floor space in that room is a plus or a minus. It's win-win, so don't drive yourself nuts!

Thanks for your thoughts, branchburner, especially that last bit. I do have a tendency to drive myself nuts over such things. But I think I have finally settled on the woodstock Fireview. I think. The six-month return policy makes me feel more comfortable about the whole thing.

I'm also planning to give this baby direct access to outside air by running some 4-inch pipe from a basement window up through the ash dump and into an outside air adaptor on the stove. Can anyone tell me how worth while this is. I'm thinking it will reduce the amount of chilly draft in the room and create more positive pressure.

 

[branchburner]

I would think outside air makes sense, but probably not a big diff either way, since the house isn't tight.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

IMO, an insert is always a compromise in terms of heat distribution.

 

[Todd]

The Fireview will look sweet in front of that fireplace and should also help cut your gas bill. It may or may not be a little small in heat output for an uninsulated 2100 sq ft home but you have an advantage that the stove is centrally located and you can always add insulation later. I had 8" of insulation blown into my attic (about 1000 sq) ft 2 years ago and it cost about $500.

If your looking to move later on and take your stove, make sure you don't destroy the fireplace damper area by cutting a hole for your liner to pass, look into oval pipe to fit the damper throat.

 

[summit]

best insert? in my experience, nothing beats the PE and Lopi units, although Pe is a better price value, since the blower comes standard, and has a better warranty. both of these are kinda plain jane in the aesthetics department, however. although, for looks against your pretty fireplace setup, a Jotul Kennebec or VC montpelier would be outstanding. (between these two the jotul i think is a more solidly constructed unit)... it'd be a shame to waste the beautiful fireplace look you have there with a freestander and huge hearthpad out in front.

 

[Wet1]

best insert? in my experience, nothing beats the PE and Lopi units, although Pe is a better price value, since the blower comes standard, and has a better warranty. both of these are kinda plain jane in the aesthetics department, however. although, for looks against your pretty fireplace setup, a Jotul Kennebec or VC montpelier would be outstanding. (between these two the jotul i think is a more solidly constructed unit)... it'd be a shame to waste the beautiful fireplace look you have there with a freestander and huge hearthpad out in front.

I prefer stoves, but in your case I have to agree with summit 100%!

If you want a cat (like the WS FV), consider the BK Princess insert.

 

[Jags]

I can't really add too much more to the insert/freestander debate, but I am gonna add this: 2100 sqft of uninsulated house is gonna need some firepower. Go big. 3+ cu ft firebox. If you were getting heating bills in the $400 range down in Peoria, that tells me you need BTU's. The fireview is great stove, but I think undersized for your application. Just one dudes opinion.

 

[Highbeam]

I don't like inserts. I had one and tore down the chimney, replaced it with a freestander. However, that fireplace looks really nice and the hearth extension looks nice as is. I think it would be a negative thing lookswise to put a freestander in there. Another reason, you have a fairly divided up house that is big. The noisy blower on the insert will make lots of hot air that should travel better to those remote rooms vs. the radiant heat from the freestander that will do a better job of heating the room it is in.

I also agree with Jags that whatever you do, you need more HP than the little woodstock can provide. That stove is rated for IIRC 1600 SF of well insulated house. Bigger is better, size matters.

Oh and I installed a fresh air connection to my hearthstone as shown in the links in my sigtnature line. Even in my older and leakier house, I noticed an improvement in draftiness around the stove. The OAK is required in my state and I would use it even if it weren't.