Frustrated with VC Encore NC 1450

[thunderhawk]

This is our 3rd season with a VC Encore NC 1450 and is has been a 3 year battle with the stove. We are no farther ahead in figuring out this pile of cast iron than we were with our first fire. It either smolders or sounds like a jet engine.

The primary air control lever, on the right side, has no effect on this stove unless it is back puffing which happens often. If you close it all the way, it seems to stop the back puffing which is just the oposite of what the manual says.

I am very dedicated to keeping my chimney clean.

I have a 24x24 cabin which this stove does not keep warm when the weather is cold. I was told a load of wood would heat for 9 hours and in reality is lasts 2 1/2 hours.

My $500 King stove from Tractor Supply Co. did a much better job with a lot less stress.

What does it take to enjoy the "viewing" window on this stove? Seldom do we see a flame. We either see red coals, black logs, or a black window.

PS Don't buy one

 

[bluefrier]

Sorry to hear it's not working out but I have to ask....how long do you let the wood dry? When did you buy/cut/split it?

 

[begreen]

It would help to understand the installation and the burning procedures. Please describe the flue system in detail.

Can you describe a full cycle of operation from start up? Is the cabin cold (outside temp) at startup or is this being lived in all the time?

 

[Diabel]

Where is that link to Gordo's video. It at least will provide some ideas in terms of burning habits.

 

[ronsetoe]

I have been burning a VC Defiant/encore...it has both names on the side, since the mid eighties. When this happens to my stove either the cat is shot, wood is green or the chimney needs cleaning. I did have to replace the refractory chamber in back when this happened once. Was the stove new or used when you got it? The stove can be a challenge to run at times. This will be its last season, on mine, as I am tired of replacing the cat every few years.

 

[begreen]

This is the NonCat, downdraft version of the stove. Damp wood and a short cold stack could make this stove (and owner) pretty cranky.

Here's the video links:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/14536/

 

[thunderhawk]

The wood was cut/split/ and drying since May. I also tried wood dried for 3 years and had no better luck.

The cabin is lived in so it is never as cold as it is outside.

The flue is 8" diameter, double wall with a cap that has the screen removed. It is about 20' tall.

I will describe today's fire events: I start by stirring the coals, then I empty the ash pan, I add small pieces of wood, I have the air take handle open all the way and the damper is open. I have a thermometer mounded about 6" above the stove on the stove pipe. When it hits about 500 degrees, I close the damper which usually happens within 3 minutes. Usually then the fire dies so when the thermometer drops back down to 300 I open the damper again. This will go on for up to 3 hrs. each morning until eventually it hangs around 300 degrees according to my burn indicator. During the daytime, I may do this up to 30 times.

Many times I open the damper to revive the fire and when I close the damper it sounds like a jet engine with flames circling about the top with smoke blowing through the top loader and around the glass. It seems the only way to stop this is close the air supply handle.

 

[thunderhawk]

We just watch the videos and saw the guys thermometer. Let me describe what we are using. It is called a Rutland Burn Indicator and it says best operation between 300-500 which I have been trying to keep between. It says less than 300: Creosote and above 500: too hot. Could this be part of my problem? The guy on the video showed his stove thermometer was 1000 degrees, if ours was that hot the stove would be cracking and popping. That does not sound safe. We checked the pipe outside...it is burning clean...no smoke... so it seems like it is burning hot enough.

 

[Diabel]

Do a search on "everburn". There will be many threads. Some of them describe in detail operating procedures of this stove.

 

[SolaGracia]

I also have a Rutland burn indicator. I do not trust anything it says. My friend, who has the same burn indicator, brought his over my house. There was a 100F difference between them (in the same location)! Mine was just purchased and his was 3 years old. Also yesterday I placed mine into my cooking stove with the temp set at 350F, and the burn indicator read 415F. In addition to this, once I replaced it back onto the insert last night, it no longer registers the same temps it did before I placed it into my cooking stove, even though it is in the same location. My conclusion? This burn indicator is a piece of junk. I wouldn't trust it. Go out and buy a cheap IR thermometer, it will be more reliable in the long run and you can calibrate your inaccurate rutland to it if you dare.

 

[Pagey]

Keep in mind those magnetic thermo ranges are for single wall pipe about 18" off the surface of the stove. I don't use a stack thermometer to judge when to shut things down on my stove. I use one on the top of the stove and I use the appearance of the fire. I close my bypass damper (a non-cat Lopi feature, not a bypass for a cat) at anywhere from 300F to 400F on the stove top. I start closing down the primary air anywhere from 400F to 500F. Again, this depends on the behavior of the particular load I have in at the time.

 

[G-rott]

Your stove will click and tick, thats OK. I think the jet engine sound is the everburn chamber kicking in, thats good. You stove should roast you out of your cabin. Let it cook.
1. Load it up,
2. Get a good solid flame,
3. Cut the secondary air back to keep a good flame and build good coals
4. Once you have good coals and fully chard wood, close the secondary air and open the everburn bypass,

this pulls the air for the everburn across the coals to preheat it and burn the wood gases in the smoke off in the chamber at the back of the stove. The stove temp will go up quickly, more high temp gas flame in the box and less air rushing up the chimney. My stove doesn't burn well below 425-450.

5. As the burn dies down let the stove temp drop (I go below 300) turn off the bypass, turn up secondary air let it start to draft for a few seconds,
Back to step one, reload on the coal bed. step three will go quickly because you have a coal bed already just get the wood charred.

Also the high temp fire will help keep the glass clean. I think you are being to cautious on you burn temps.

Garett

ps with 20 feet of pipe I needed to ad an inline damper in my chimney pipe.

 

[thunderhawk]

Garett,

Thanks for the advice but I feel like it is a foreign language. What are the secondary air and the everburn bypass? When facing the stove, I have a knob on the right the manual calls the air control lever and the knob on the left is called the damper handle.

Is the everburn stuff related to a stove with a catalytic convert?er?? Ours is a non-catalytic converter.

Sorry to not be understanding all this. We are not new to using wood burning stoves but this one is driving us crazy.

After burning wood all day, we just added a piece of wood. Now it has no flame showing but every 20 sec. a huge fireball shoots up and then big puff of smoke and the temperature is dropping. Thank goodness we have a gas heater,too. Not good.

I just pushed the air control handle towards the back and the fireballs stopped. This seems like it is opposite of what it should be.

Thanks

 

[savageactor7]

here's tradergordo's skinny on your stove thunderhawk

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/4188/

in his signature he has a lot of info on repairing that stove too.

 

[fossil]

Edited your thread title to include the stove designation...this helps a lot when folks use the search function in the future. Rick

 

[Diabel]

Garett,

Thanks for the advice but I feel like it is a foreign language. What are the secondary air and the everburn bypass? When facing the stove, I have a knob on the right the manual calls the air control lever and the knob on the left is called the damper handle.

Is the everburn stuff related to a stove with a catalytic convert?er?? Ours is a non-catalytic converter.

Sorry to not be understanding all this. We are not new to using wood burning stoves but this one is driving us crazy.

After burning wood all day, we just added a piece of wood. Now it has no flame showing but every 20 sec. a huge fireball shoots up and then big puff of smoke and the temperature is dropping. Thank goodness we have a gas heater,too. Not good.

I just pushed the air control handle towards the back and the fireballs stopped. This seems like it is opposite of what it should be.

Thanks

It appears to me that you have to attend "downdraft stove 101" class ;-)

First of all...do you have a thermometer on the stove top (griddle ideally)?

 

[tradergordo]

For what its worth, I think you are not running it hot enough. As others mentioned, the rutland thing is worthless. And you need a good coal bed before closing the damper. If it burns out of control after dampering, you need to figure out a way to restrict the secondary air intake a little bit.

 

[Northern NH Mike]

I have to agree with a number of posts so far. I would start by putting a new thermometer on the stovetop, not the stack. I don't shut my damper until I hit at least 400 °F on the stovetop and that usually takes at least 30 minutes from a cold start. I don't start closing the air until I hit at least 500 °F and only shut it down all the way when I go to bed or leave the house. I have also installed a flue damper to help further regulate the Everburn on really (subzero) cold nights when it can act like a jet engine and turn the collar red. I also have to say that I did not get the full benefit of the 550-600 °F cast iron until I installed the blower; the difference is amazing. I've gotten the house to 80+ degrees when it has been -10 or -15 outside and we live in an 1860s farmhouse that is not "tight". Finally, my Encore does not always present a light show to go along with the heat. Sometimes I get some nice flame and secondary action, but not always. My experience is that the stove will produce a nice even heat and I can get 10 hours out of a full load, but it defintely has a learning curve, and this forum was of GREAT help in that. I agree, search Everburn and Encore and try out the advice, it helped me.

 

[Diabel]

Well said Mike!

When I got this stove I was sooooo frustrated with it & was ready to put it at the curb. Thank to this place & input from many members I learned how to operate it properly. It has a much longer learning curve than most stoves. Dry fuel & patience will get you where you want to be with this stove!