Generating Proper Draft For Jotul Castine

[hearth_login]

After recently replacing an old 118 with an F400 and dealing with draft
related issues, I ran across the following thread which indicates that the
F400 requires greater than average draft:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/3173/

I didn't have draft issues using the same chimney with the 118. Now,
smoke spills out of the door when loading wood and I have to clean
the glass every morning.

The F400 is top vented into double wall stovepipe and Metalbestos
(about 16' total). I just ordered another 3 foot section of Metalbestos
(that will be the maximum height I can extend the chimney). If three
feet of additional chimney doesn't do it, what other options do I have?

Other relevant info:

I have a 3CB on the other side of the house which is rear vented into a
masonry chimney (not significantly higher than my metal chimney) that
drafts perfectly. So, I don't think I'm dealing with greater than normal
house pressure. Also, there's a large pine within 10 feet of the metal
chimney.

Thoughts?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Well, the old 118 would draft better then the new stove. The more efficient stoves get the worse they draft. Whats the diameter of the chimney? Are you burning on high all the time? At what point do you "choke" the stove down?
For these stoves to workproperly they need to be burned full blast with a full firebox of wood. Once the firebox has a great coal bed then you can start messing with the air. I
Is it possible that you pluged your chimney cap during the break in process?
Is the wood your burning bone dry?
FWIW, new stoves are miles more effecinent then there old counterparts, but that efficiency comes at a price, draft.
What altitude do you live at? If you live in the mountains that would be considerd a short chimney.

 

[hearth_login]

* The Chimney ID is 6"

* I run the stove wide open until it reaches about 450F.

* I will definitely check the chimney cap when I add the new Metalbestos.
However, a couple of weeks ago I replaced the single wall stovepipe with
the double wall (in hopes of hotter flue gas) and the chimney looked
clean all the way up.

* I split/stacked the Cherry and Red Oak I've been burning 9-12 months
ago and it burns without issue in my 3CB.

* I'm at sea level.

Other thoughts? I'd really hate to have to trade out this little beauty...

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Foreget the stove temp, run the stove untill the coal bed is hot and mature.

I think if you trade it you will have the same problem. Your chimney should be perfect, make sure there is no obstruction. If you had a borderline chimney this stove should work well. Either your cutting it down to soon, or there is some obstuction in the chimney. No reason it should not run perfectly.

I just got a new stove, and i tell you its complety different, Its harder to light, and it doenst draft as well (so it would seem). I figured out after 6 weeks that i had been starting it up "wrong". It wasnt wrong, just different from the previous stove i owned. Now it heats up and starts just like my old stove. I traded from a hearthstone heratige to a hearthstone mansfield. It would seem that they should be similar, there not. My point is, give it time to learn your stove. Try different things. If your chimney is as good as you say it is, and the wood is nice and mature, that olso should be kicking butt.

 

[begreen]

Hi Drafty, and welcome,

You and I have similar experiences with both stoves, though I may be a week of two down the road from you with the F400. MSG is right, the Castine starts and burns differently than the 3CB. They're built differently too. The F400 has more mass in cast iron and in the form of hidden firebrick that the F3CB doesn't have. It takes a bit longer to warm up. Not fair to compare this stove to the 118 or 602. They feed the air right to the heart of the log ends and take off like a blast furnace. Great, but very different stoves.

At first I was a bit disappointed with my Castine because I was expecting it to behave like a bigger 3CB. Mine smoked when opening the door and didn't seem to crank out the heat that the 3CB did. I won't go into the long tale, saving that for a review, but short story is that the stove has taught me how it wants to be regulated. It will smoke with that big door if you open it too quickly. Instead, open the air control first, then crack the door open for about 5-10 seconds, then open slowly. If I do that and the stove is warmed up, no smoke comes out. My starting procedure is to get the initial fire going hot. Once it is above 500 I do damper down about 1/4 because it creates better secondary combustion and actually increases stove temp. My normal operating temp with soft maple is 500-600. I only wish I was burning your nice cherry and oak. Once a good bed of coals is established I usually damper down to 1/2 or 1/3 once the logs are charred.

I'm now getting predictable results out of the Castine, and liking it better. Also getting more heat, reliably out of it. But it did take learning the stove, correcting some installation errors, using smaller splits for the initial coal bed, and on our stove adding a draft damper. It's not perfect, the glass doesn't stay as clean as the 3CB, and it is more draft sensitive. But it appears to be a decent stove. In some ways I think it might have been better as a double door stove, but that is no longer an option. I'll be posting a review of other things I am learning about the stove as soon as time permits. In the meantime, experiment a little and try the suggestions.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I need to make some edits to my post.
Im drinking to much again, the F400 is the castine, not the oslo.
So corrections: a marginal chimmey is not sufficent for this stove. (your chimney isnt marginal, it should be on the low side of perfect.)

 

[hearth_login]

BeGreen,

You're right on the money. The 118 used to provide the lion's share of
heat for the house. The 3CB is a great little stove and it's nice to be
able to see the fire. Like you, I figured that I would replace the 118
with what seemed to be a bigger version of the 3CB (definitely not the
case). I actually spent a few months trying to pick up an older 2 door
Castine but nobody local was looking to sell.

Anyway, my new length of Metalbestos should be here by Friday. With
some patience, experimentation, and a bit of extra draft, I think the
Castine will work out...

 

[JBinKC]

No question about it the Castine is a finnicky stove. I had added 4 ft of pipe since that last thread talking about the stove and now drafts much better but it still is not perfect. To start it I would recommend using those diamond strike- a-fire fire starters bed of twigs with an air space underneath and criss-cross a few 2 inch diameter pieces preferably softwood like cedar, poplar or ailanthus with another pile of twigs/bark on top before you add the larger pieces. The damper should be wide open and the door opened very slightly. Once started it is a charm though as long as you keep the coals from blocking the airflow from the damper.

 

[adrpga498]

Hi Drafty, and welcome,

You and I have similar experiences with both stoves, though I may be a week of two down the road from you with the F400. MSG is right, the Castine starts and burns differently than the 3CB. They're built differently too. The F400 has more mass in cast iron and in the form of hidden firebrick that the F3CB doesn't have. It takes a bit longer to warm up. Not fair to compare this stove to the 118 or 602. They feed the air right to the heart of the log ends and take off like a blast furnace. Great, but very different stoves.

At first I was a bit disappointed with my Castine because I was expecting it to behave like a bigger 3CB. Mine smoked when opening the door and didn't seem to crank out the heat that the 3CB did. I won't go into the long tale, saving that for a review, but short story is that the stove has taught me how it wants to be regulated. It will smoke with that big door if you open it too quickly. Instead, open the air control first, then crack the door open for about 5-10 seconds, then open slowly. If I do that and the stove is warmed up, no smoke comes out. My starting procedure is to get the initial fire going hot. Once it is above 500 I do damper down about 1/4 because it creates better secondary combustion and actually increases stove temp. My normal operating temp with soft maple is 500-600. I only wish I was burning your nice cherry and oak. Once a good bed of coals is established I usually damper down to 1/2 or 1/3 once the logs are charred.

I'm now getting predictable results out of the Castine, and liking it better. Also getting more heat, reliably out of it. But it did take learning the stove, correcting some installation errors, using smaller splits for the initial coal bed, and on our stove adding a draft damper. It's not perfect, the glass doesn't stay as clean as the 3CB, and it is more draft sensitive. But it appears to be a decent stove. In some ways I think it might have been better as a double door stove, but that is no longer an option. I'll be posting a review of other things I am learning about the stove as soon as time permits. In the meantime, experiment a little and try the suggestions.

Glad to hear the update on your new stove. I'm also glad I have the "old" double doors. I only open 1 door whilst loading wood.

 

[begreen]

I'll be posting a Castine review soon, once my Condar 3-19 thermometer arrives and I can report stack temps. Every stove has it's own personality. I am growing more familiar and adept with the Castine now. It is a bit more fussy on startup than the 3CB, but not terribly so as long as draft is sufficient. My wife can get it going pretty well too. However, she cheats a little with a chunk of Super Cedar, but that's why I got them. Contact Thomas for a free sample, I think you'll like them too.

from the brown glass solution thread:
"Finally I would like to offer again to any members who would like to try a FREE sample to email [email protected] with shipping address."

A couple more tips:
Inspect the secondary chamber and the door glass gaskets carefully. I found about 1.5" of the right side secondary gasket hanging loose outside the chamber . The door glass gasket is barely held in at the top center and bottom of the glass. Mine was actually not correctly in place at the top left. I managed to poke it into position with a small L shaped tool I fashioned out of some scrape metal. This is a small design flaw in my opinion. The stove should have center glass clips like the Oslo has. Fixing the gasket issues seemed to have helped the stove a little.

Although many keep saying to have a good bed of ashes, I'm finding that the Castine works better with a cleaner grate. I tried running it without cleaning the ashbed at all for the first couple weeks and it just got harder to start. Now, before starting a fire I move ashes into the bin so that a large part of the center grate is visible. That also seems to help the stove fire off quicker and more reliably.

Edit: I have since learned this was the wood, which was a bit damp. I now get a longer lasting fire with a good ash bed. Placing a couple "sleepers" N/S under the E/W loaded logs makes for an easy restart off the hot coals.