Generator for our new pellet stove

tmsjava Posted By tmsjava, May 8, 2018 at 2:16 PM

  1. tmsjava

    tmsjava
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    We just had a Harman P43 installed (during 80-degree weather, LOL)! We will be purchasing the APC BE750G UPS for battery backup (just to turn the stove off). But we want to purchase a gas-run generator as well. I don't really know much about generators and I've been reading several threads here but don't see too many listed. I saw a few people mentioned the Honda EU1000i and the Yamaha EF2000is but those are $800-$900. Would there be anything suitable in the $400-$500 range? We would only use it for the pellet stove (in the winter) OR for our garage freezer (in the summer). Any help is appreciated!

    Thanks,
    T.
     
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  2. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
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    Take a look at what your pellet stove draws for amps and watts, I'm going to bet it's not much at all. You can buy a couple thousand watt generator from Harbor Freight for a couple hundred dollars. I have a larger one from Costco (Chinese clone) that hasn't given me a moments problem and has run for days on end.
     
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  3. bill3rail

    bill3rail
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    Harbor Freight generators seem to be good enough for running in a power failure for short periods of time.
    Just make sure you properly care for and run it periodically to prevent gas from going bad.

    Bill
     
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  4. Harmanizer

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  5. rona

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    Hard to beat a Honda 2000 watt. I can easily carry it. They are not cheap but like Harman they hold their value and are dependable.I found many uses for it besides just the stove.
     
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  6. tmsjava

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    Thanks! I was especially looking for personal experience with generators you have that work with your Harman. I will take a look at the Ryobi and I had a Honda on my list (though it IS pricey). Sounds like 2000 watts is the way to go (peak). I think the max watts on the stove is 460 and the standard is 200 (so it says on the online info I found).

    So my next question (as someone who has never used a generator at all): What is the process? I will have the stove plugged into a UPS. When the power goes out, the stove should shut down on its own (1 hour?) and we will go turn on the generator outside. Once the stove has shut down, I assume I will unplug it from the UPS and plug it into the generator (via an extension cord out a window or something). Assuming the generator runs for maybe 6 hours....do I need to start powering off the stove around 5 hours in and then let the generator cool once it has no more power, before refilling the tank (I read you have to let it cool)...maybe 30 minutes to 1 hour? Then refill, start the generator again, then turn the stove back on. So the same thing every 6-7 hours (depending on how long the generator will run)??

    Last thing: I guess we would have to keep the generator in the shed (with doors open) while running it. It needs to be covered, I assume (If our power goes out, it's probably in a rain or snow storm!). We'll need a SUPER long extension cord.

    Thanks,
    T.
     
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  7. rona

    rona
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    How long of a cord will you need? With a Harman you can buy a special hose kit that would hook up to a auxiliary fuel tank such as a 6 gallon boat tank. This will extend the run time before you have to shut down to add gas.
    I might add these generators typically start in less then 5 pulls often the second pull but it is advisable to keep it in a warm area rather then -30F for quick starting. Another hint is be sure to use non ethanol fuel and use a additive such as Sea Foam so the fuel doesn't deteriate over time. These small generators could fit in a average sized dog house so that might be a alternative to a long and expensive cord.
     
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  8. maple1

    maple1
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    I would first up to a 1500 size UPS. I don't think the 750 will get you more than 10 minutes, at 200 watts. UPS has a sizing utility (there are others) - you can play with that to find out how long you can go on how many watts with what UPS. (The one you mentioned might be discontinued).

    If you are sure you only will use it for the stove, a 1000w generator will be lots. But why not use it for more than that in an outage if the engine will be running anyway? Going to a 2000w gennie will let you run lots of other smallish items like lights & phone chargers & TVs etc.. I would definitely go with an Inverter generator even at the price premium they are.

    Procedure would be to unplug the UPS from the wall & plug that into the generator, as soon as the power goes out & you can get the gennie fired up. That way the stove will see no power interruption. As long as you can get all that done in the 10 minutes you would have with a 750 UPS. Or whatever another one would give you.
     
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  9. tmsjava

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    Technically, the 750 is the only one "approved" by Harman (and yes, it's hard to find), but I've seen others claim a CyberPower 825/1500 or APC 1500 has worked for them (and automatically shuts off their stove). So I'll look into one of the newer ones. I thought the 750 would give me almost an hour (I thought that's what I read, but I could be wrong).

    We thought we would only use the generator for the pellet stove (in the winter) and maybe the freezer (in the summer). They are on opposite ends of the house! Definitely looking into 2000w ones though, just in case. Might want to plug in a few more things. Wondering if I can run an extension cord from the generator into the house and plug multiple things into it there (cord with multiple outlets on one end). Or are you only supposed to plug one thing into each outlet of the actual generator?

    Thanks for the tips!
    T.
     
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  10. Harmanizer

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    You can run as many things as the genny will allow.I may buy another one so I can run them in parallel.Maybe get a transfer switch so I don't have to run extension cords all over the place.
     
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  11. chken

    chken
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    So, as you know, you need a Pure Sine inverter generator. And, while 1000 watts will do, 2000 watts isn't much more and will give you some margin of error. I have a WEN 2000w inverter generator, and some others on here do as well. It supposedly has the same engine as the Yamaha. It's very quiet, 51db on Eco, and uses very little fuel, 14+hrs on light load on 1gal, in my experience. It doesn't weigh all that much so you can move it around, less than 60lbs. And, it's super-easy to pull-start. I don't like how you have to remove the side panel to fill or check the oil, but thankfully, you don't have to do it often, and it has a low-oil shutoff.

    And best thing: it's on sale today, ONLY! $359 on special at Home Depot, shipped.
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/WEN-2000-Watt-Gas-Powered-Inverter-Generator-56200i/205825829

    Since it's 9:30p now, you only have until 3am ET, to order it!

    Harman approves of a UPS that sends a square, clipped wave to the stove that it recognizes, which then starts the shutoff procedure. Lots of UPSes send a square, clipped wave and should work. However, if you want your Harman to run and not auto-shutoff, then you want a PureSine UPS, like the CyberPower that is in my sigfile. APC too, but last I checked it cost alot more than the CyberPower which goes on sale quite often at NewEgg for about $150 for the 1500 model.

    I installed an outdoor outlet that I plug the generator to. Then, I run a 12-2 wire to a quad outlet in my kitchen. It's only for the generator. In the kitchen is my pellet stove and fridge, etc. I can then plug appliances into that outlet.

    As for how you run it, you could have the UPS plugged into your digital inverter generator, and plug your stove into the UPS. Then, when your generator runs out of fuel, you can then refill it, while the stove runs on UPS power. For a 1500VA sized UPS, and if your Harman draws about 100 watts, it could run for 45m to an hour. So, you should have plenty of time to refill your generator. No, I don't let my generator cool off between refueling.
     
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  12. tmsjava

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    Thank you! Very helpful. Might ask an electrician about the outdoor outlet (and then just plugging into that indoors. Seems like that would be much less of a hassle of trying to prop open windows and stuffing towels in there, etc. Sounds like that Cyberpower UPS might be the way to go. I'll keep looking at generators. I'll add the Wen to my list!

    T.
     
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  13. maple1

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    Just to add a little. I don't have a pellet stove but do use a UPS and gennie for our wood boiler. It's a big old 2200va Smart UPS. Boiler circ can run for a full burn (4-5hrs) which gets us 24hrs heat. I usually don't get the gennie out until the outage gets into day 2. It's a 3000w inverter that can also keep our freezer & fridge cold and water pumped once in a while. I just run extension cords, cheap and simple if a bit clumsy and sloppy. We only had 2 outages this winter and didn't use gennie in either. Also keep a booster box charged that keeps cells charged and inet going.
     
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  14. tmsjava

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  15. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
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    One nice feature, that I do NOT have on my Champion (Chinese Honda) generator is idle control, where the generator goes down to an idle when there is not a high demand for power. I have 8000 watts all the time whether I'm running a 9 watt LED bulb or my well pump.
     
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  16. maple1

    maple1
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    Which really eats a ton of gas, which really comes into play in a multi-day outage. That's the biggest benefit with an inverter generator, IMO - fuel consumption.
     
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  17. chken

    chken
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    Everyone rates the Honda and Yamaha as the best for inverter generators. Quietest, most reliable. In general, you pay double over other brands. However, that price for the Yamaha at Costco is pretty amazing. And, Costco has a great return policy.

    I would think a $500 Yamaha would be a no-brainer.
     
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  18. tmsjava

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    So I think this is what we'll go with:

    Yamaha A-Ipower 2000w (1600 running) generator from Costco:
    https://m.costco.com/.product.1146127.html

    And the CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/?tag=hearthamazon-20

    We will see if we can get an electrician to install an outdoor inlet plug on the wall of the house, nearest to our shed, so we can run a cord just to that. And for that outdoor cord from the generator directly to the pellet stove (or freezer) or via an outdoor plug, is there a specific kind of cord I need to look for? Obviously, outdoor rated. It may well be sitting in the snow or rain.

    T.
     
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  19. chken

    chken
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    Looks good. If you're patient, and subscribe to Newegg's daily specials, that CyberPower model tends to go on sale once a month or so, for anywhere from $138 to $150.

    As for outdoor cords, get the shortest 10 or 12 gauge one from where you plan to set your Yamaha to where the outdoor plug is planning to go. Some outdoor cords are cold-rated, so they can still flex in Winter. Since it's not a 220v generator, you don't need special plugs or outlets.

    On the outside, you need a power inlet box to plug your Yamaha into. Then 12/2 Romex from the box, to a regular outlet near your stove/freezer.
     
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  20. Sodbuster

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    We get an extended outage maybe once every 5 years, fuel is cheaper than investing in a new generator. I eventually plan on installing an automatic stand alone generator that is plumbed into our NG. We'll be gone in the winter and spring, and need something that starts automatically when it senses an outage and can't run out of fuel. I need my sump pump and freezers to have a fail safe power source.
     
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  21. rich2500

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  22. tmsjava

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    Harman only approves of 2 specific models and they are old models (APC BE750G or TrippLite INTERNET750N). But I thought the Cyberpower did the same. Maybe I misread some of those posts. I thought I needed to look for "Pure Sine". But a pure sine does NOT put the stove into automatic shutdown??
     
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  23. rich2500

    rich2500
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    Yes that's what I was told about a pure sine wave. Maybe someone with a pure sine wave can confirm or deny but I dont think either of the approved back ups are pure sine wave.The same dealer told me that those are the only 2 back ups Harman tested to work but doesn't mean other backups won't work.
     
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  24. Harmanizer

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    A pure sine wave ups will not put the stove into auto shutdown.I have the APC BE750G.When power goes out it pulses the combustion fan to remove smoke until the fire is out then shuts down the stove.
     
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  25. tmsjava

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    So I guess that's the ideal one to get, if I can find it! I wrote to Harman to ask if the newer models were approved, but they said no because they hadn't been tested yet. Anyone have the newer model(s) of this APC and tested it?
     
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