Getting nervous about stove dangers?

[enigmablaze]

Depends on the stove. In this case the issue often is not creosote, it's smoke spillage. Many rear vented stoves have a wide but shallow firebox. If the chimney is short then rear-venting can lead to smoke spilling out when the door is opened, especially in mild weather. If that is the case then top venting with the same stove can address this issue.

I understand. Do you think it would make any difference in models like the Morso's 1410, 1440 or 7110? These are the ones we are looking at right now...I'm not sure if maybe the 7110 has the shallow firebox you're talking about?

 

[enigmablaze]

FWIW, I used to be pretty worried about chimney fires, too, having had to run a stove through a masonry chimney with a bad liner (near the top) for a few months. Nowadays, I still feel a little better having a Chimfex flare, or a bag of that generic chimney fire suppressant powder (available at the box stores) lying around. I haven't needed it yet, but some of the videos on YouTube are encouraging and I'd feel a lot better about suppressing a chimney fire (once detected) using one of those sulfurous oxygen-displacing suppressors rather than just spraying an ABC fire extinguisher up the flue (which I've heard also can help) and hoping the MAP powder reaches the flames.

That's not to say I don't clean my entire flue at least yearly, burn dry wood with plenty of oxygen, and all that good stuff, though! I did find that a good-quality P95 respirator is a necessity during flue cleaning for the DIY-er... our lungs really can't handle finely-ground carbon.

The Chimfex flare seems a great idea. I wonder what happens if you don't detect one though. I wish there was a way to monitor the higher metal chimney...

 

[enigmablaze]

Go with a straight up flue pipe setup with a telescoping connection pipe...this allows you to clean the flue from the bottom up either through the pipe its self or through the stove...no roof top acrobats.Burning dry wood and keeping your chimney clean IMO is very safe heat. Are you opposed to a boiler set up? This would isolate and eliminate any risk of having a house fire.

I'm glad you mentioned the pipe setup, I will definitely keep that in mind as getting on our roof would be a big job for sure. I did not realize it made a difference in which direction you could sweep it. I do not know what you mean by a "boiler set up"? I feel like I should, but nothing is coming to mind.

 

[enigmablaze]

Random thoughts . . . as a firefighter since 1990, full time fire prevention officer since 1995 and a woodstove user since 2008.

Woodstoves are not for everyone . . . and that's fine. Honestly though, I like it when folks are a little bit worried about installing something in their home that could burn down their home and kill everyone in it. The folks who really worry me are the ones who buy any, old woodstove without knowing if it is sized for their home or even if it is safe . . . then installing it without paying attention to clearance requirements or hearth requirements . . . and then proceed to burn unseasoned wood (along with who knows what else) without ever cleaning the chimney . . . and they think nothing of it. As I said, it's good to worry . . . a little bit.

Just a check on some of your original statements . . . you can burn softwood safely in a woodstove -- it's not just for hardwood (although usually folks find hardwood burns longer.) Also, it's not all about burning at high temps . . . rather it's about burning at the correct temps. Burn too cool and you'll produce creosote. Burn too hot and you can ignite that creosote. You need to burn in the Goldilocks Zone -- not too cool, not too hot, but just right. This is where a thermometer will help.

I am one of those guys who tends to inspect and sweep my chimney monthly . . . although this past year I'm getting lazy and it seems as though it has been every other month. It's not because my chimney needs it. To be honest, for me it's really an easy-peasy task that takes up maybe 10 minutes since I sweep it from the bottom-up (which is nice since my roof is wicked steep). I would not recommend only sweeping annually (at least at first as there is a learning curve) . . . and you don't necessarily need to hire a sweep if you have your own equipment. Incidentally, the reason I sweep as frequently as I do is a) it is a quick and easy task and b) due to the nature of my work I never, ever want to be that one guy at the firehouse that has a fire as I would never hear the end of it . . .

Since you asked . . . zero chimney fires since 2008. There is a possibility that I may have had something small going on in the first week or two when I was still learning how to use the stove and was burning less-than-optimal wood . . .but even that was nothing . . . and in all honestly I'm not really sure if it was a true chimney fire since things never got hot and the only possible sign of a fire was a minute or so of the sound of rice krispies falling down my stove pipe. Since then . . . nothing.

I've never heard of a roof catching on fire from a chimney fire. I suppose it is possible, maybe if the roof had less of a pitch or was cedar shakes vs. asphalt or metal roofing. Even then I suspect the chimney fire would have to be pretty intense. What I've seen most often is a chimney chocker blocker full of creosote burning away so that we've had to put out the fire before it can cause damage to the liner. Almost every single time -- in fact all that I can remember -- these chimney fires have been in older masonry chimneys and the common denominator has always been a failure to inspect and clean the chimney. Most of these fires have not been a big deal. The few that were a little more serious tended to be in homes where the installation was not just out of code and the proverbial box, but in fact were installed in a way that almost made it look like the home owner read the code and did everything the opposite . . . the other times chimney fires have been a little more of a concern is in older chimneys when either they are unlined, the clay liner is cracked and degraded or the chimney was built too close to wood framing and embers and/or the heat managed to set the house on fire. I honestly cannot recall any fires in a modern Class A or metal lined chimney.

Finally, if the truth were told . . . I would be more concerned with the installation (we've seen some fires due to improper installs), clearance requirements (i.e. not stacking kindling, wood and the chair you're sitting in too close to the woodstove) and the improper disposal of ashes (i.e. using a plastic bucket or cardboard box to dispose of ashes and then sticking that bucket or box on a covered porch, deck, garage, etc. and having a coal in the ash catch the container and structure on fire.)

This is really encouraging, I guess I was afraid fires could happen anyway even in nearly clean chimneys...maybe I was getting a little overly-concerned about them. I was afraid burning creosote or sparks could float out and hit the asphalt roof and ignite it but...I guess for some reason that must not happen that much. I have heard of a spark arrestor at the top of the pipe, I don't know how it works but I assume that's its job?

I'm surprised the majority of fires are in masonry chimneys and not the metal pipe, do you think there's a reason the metal pipe fares better?

For that matter, aside from the "class A" designation...is there any brand/model of metal chimney for stoves that is the "gold standard" safest? Also, is stove chimney different than metal chimney for a zero-clearance fireplace or something?

 

[enigmablaze]

I think you take more risk on by driving your car everyday than running properly installed stove proper way. Of course there is a risk but as other said you can minimize it. It's a learning curve. I rember with first year I couldn't understand how people had their glass clean my would get black after first but. You at least are here where there is a ton of very knowledgeable people. They will help you understand the stove and how to run it, like no one else. I wish I knew about this site before I bought my stove.

I am enormously thankful for this forum! Unbelievably they have not yet tired of my seemingly unending barrage of questions

 

[enigmablaze]

My setup is pretty easy to clean. I have the stove rear-vented into the fireplace with a tee, connected to a stainless liner. All I do is remove the cap on the bottom of the tee, attach a plastic bag to the open bottom of the tee, and brush down into the bag. I think I could clean from the bottom if I wanted to, but my one-story roof isn't too steep.
I brush the liner once a year; I get about a quart of stuff. There is a little bit of flaky stuff at the top 4' of the liner, where the flue gasses have cooled. Below that, all I see is soot, which I wouldn't expect to burn at all. I'm not too worried about a little flaky stuff at the top...I think it would be very hard to get enough heat up that high in the chimney to be able to ignite that.
That sounds like me. I didn't try to do everything wrong; That's just how it worked out. I burned wet Red Oak, only split and stacked a few months. I had stove pipe to the top of the masonry chimney, not chimney liner, and it would rust through from condensation if I waited too long to change it out (like three years.) Needless to say, it was un-insulated. I would only brush my chimney when draft slowed down in the stove to the point where smoke rolled out when I opened the door, usually once or twice a year. Elbows would be full of creosote to the point of being half blocked off. I ended up having few chimney fires...they started after re-loads, when I had the stove burning hot to get the stove up to temp. Usually could cut the air and put 'em out in a minute or so, and somehow I never burned down the house.
Then, about seven years ago, I found this forum and got "dry-wood religion." I got many years ahead on my split-and-stacked wood supply and lined the chimney with an insulated stainless heavy-duty flex liner. I think the likelihood that I would ever have a chimney fire now is extremely low. Plus I have the added insurance of the insulated liner.
enigmablaze, your biggest worry is going to be getting dry wood by next fall, but it's possible to do. It's hard to buy dry wood; Sellers will call it "seasoned" but I would re-split and test several pieces of the wood with a moisture meter before buying it. It should already be in the low-20% range in order to be usable next season. Then stack it in the wind and top-cover, letting wind blow through the stack from the side.
If you have a chain saw, you may want to get your own wood. One possibility is to find a tree service that will drop free wood when they cut close to your house (specify the length needed) and start splitting and stacking Tulip Poplar, soft Maple and other fast-drying woods (no Oak unless it's for a couple years down the road.) These woods won't burn quite as long as the more dense species, but they will get you through until you can get ahead.
If you have access to a woodlot, grab small, dead trees (<8",) standing or down, with all the bark gone. Those will be almost dry enough to burn when you cut them. The upper branches of larger dead White Ash may be fairly dry.
Check your chimney frequently at first, until you have a handle on how clean your setup is burning.

Is the "T" connection on the back for any purpose other than easier cleaning? It does seem like it would simplify sweeping, and maybe collect creosote in it instead of clogging up the elbow as much?

I really didn't realize the issue seasoned wood could be. I need to get looking into this. I have access to 40 acres, just question my abilities to judge which woods etc.

 

[Mikey pellet guy]

I respect your interest in learning about wood burners & there great! I have had one & never had a chimney fire even with a not code chimney it was risky for me but i did keep that Clay insert clear on my old brick chimney. Being the safe person that i am it was short term for me just got to nervous after two years burning plus the mess involved i switch to pellet stoves & i love them, but the downfall is the electricity the stove requires, which i do have power back up. I found it simpler & i never worry as much about the creosote build up cause you always get dry pellets just a lot of ash which is work to clean. A clean stove is a happy stove.

 

[Woody Stover]

.I'm not sure if maybe the 7110 has the shallow firebox you're talking about?

Even with a front-loader, smoke roll-out usually isn't a problem if your chimney is tall enough to meet the maker's required minimum height, usually specified int the manual. Draft will be weaker when it's warm outside, so you may have to be careful at that time...open the door a crack to evacuate the smoke out of the box, then open the door slowly. If you wait until the load is down to coals before you re-load, there won't be any smoke in the box anyway.

what happens if you don't detect one though. I wish there was a way to monitor the higher metal chimney...

If your wood is dry, and you inspect your chimney from time to time, it's not something you really have to be worried about. There won't be anything to ignite down low in the pipe, just a little soot, and higher in the pipe, where heat diminishes, fires would be less likely to start up there.
What is your chimney setup going to be, liner in a masonry chimney, or through the roof Class A? If you are venting either through the interior of the house, the chimney will stay even warmer, and creosote deposits are even less likely except at the top where the flue exits the roof. There might be a few flaky deposits up there by the end of the season, but very little chance of it igniting unless you have a run-away fire in the stove (also not likely once you are familiar with how your stove runs and are comfortable with its operation.) I've stuck my hand in the top of the flue when my stove is running (Insulated liner in exterior masonry chimney) and the exhaust is barely warm at the top of the stack...not much chance of anything igniting up there under normal conditions.

This is really encouraging, I guess I was afraid fires could happen anyway even in nearly clean chimneys...maybe I was getting a little overly-concerned about them.....do you think there's a reason the metal pipe fares better?
For that matter, aside from the "class A" designation...is there any brand/model of metal chimney for stoves that is the "gold standard" safest? Also, is stove chimney different than metal chimney for a zero-clearance fireplace or something?

Yep, you are still overly concerned, but you seem to be getting a little better. Chimney fires are extremely unlikely if you clean your chimney on a timely basis (once a season for me,) and take care when ramping your stove up to temp on a fresh load (I use the timer in my phone so I don't get distracted when I have the air open.)
Class A double-wall has insulation between the layers, thus keeps flue gas temps high and creo deposits to a minimum. Here is a description:
"....blanket insulation encased between dual walls, offers the optimum in safety and performance. It keeps the outer wall of the chimney cool, while ensuring high flue gas temperatures for optimum draft performance. The inner wall is 25% thicker than competitive chimneys for an extra margin of safety. No locking bands or mechanical fasteners required. sleek 1" wall design provides for easy installations through 16" on-center framing. Designed for normal, continuous operation at 1000° F flue gas temperatures, subjected to rigorous and stringent HT requirements of the UL standard, including one hour at 1400° F, plus three ten minute chimney fire tests at 2100° F."
Here is a FAQ link on liner and pipe, and their opinion on Class A.
(broken link removed to http://www.hartshearth.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPages.asp?idpage=15)
(broken link removed to http://www.hartshearth.com/ProductCart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=4)

Is the "T" connection on the back for any purpose other than easier cleaning? It does seem like it would simplify sweeping, and maybe collect creosote in it instead of clogging up the elbow as much?
I really didn't realize the issue seasoned wood could be. I need to get looking into this. I have access to 40 acres, just question my abilities to judge which woods etc.

I wanted the tee for cleaning convenience. If you top-vented and had a telescoping slip connector, the entry point would be higher when sweeping from the bottom, and that might be easier for feeding the brush and rods.
For sure, get your wood split, stacked and top-covered ASAP to take a advantage of the spring breezes and get a jump on drying your wood. Post in the "Wood Shed" forum for advice on getting your wood.

 

[blacktail]

I am coming across an alarming number of chimney fires specifically even among knowledgeable folks.

Some of those people aren't as knowledgeable as they think they are.

 

[NateB]

I agree start collecting wood now. Find a certified pro that will spend time with you, and make sure your have the knowledge to run the appliance properly. Don't rely on some guy that says I been burning since I was knee high to a grass hopper. I have gotten some bad advice from those old guys, and the more I read hear the more I am amazed the old guys house hasn't burnt down.

There is a lot of safety build in to the modern wood stoves, but get a certified pro for the install.

 

[2ndburn]

You said you were a mother so I can relate, As a father w/ young kids in the house I take wood burning safety and home fires seriously. So along with all the good advice here about chimney fire prevention, burning seasoned wood, etc. from a fire safety stand point I also have smoke alarms in every room in the house, including the hallway, for a total of 6. (and remember, they have a shelf life, so replace them per. manufacturer specs) I also have a couple fire ext. stashed around the house, including one in my bedroom behind the headboard of our bed so in the event of a fire at night it gives me an option within reach, with the idea not necessarily to extinguish the fire, but a tool to help me get the family to safety. I think along with stove safety, planning for the worst and having some simple safety measures in place to give you an advantage is also important and may help give you some peace of mind to enjoy your wood stove, I know we sure do!

 

[ponderosa77]

[snip] is there anything that can help avoid a fire?

You are doing the *right* thing by looking for information, considering safety, and seeking the correct way.

Why do you want a stove? I wanted the freedom from having to buy fuel, such as pellets, and also wanted to have a backup heat source, among other things. However, many people I associate with these days really like their gas furnaces and beyond those, pellet stoves. A pellet stove, in my opinion, should be much safer and very efficient.

If you still would like to have a wood stove, I would just add a few comments that might help you understand them better. In my opinion, a wood stove is like a car engine; fill up the fuel tank with gas; turn on the engine; step on the gas pedal to drive the car; use the brakes to slow or stop. With a wood stove, the gas is the wood (fuel), the gas pedal (throttle) is the stove's air inlet system, and the brake is the damper. Many stoves have different configurations of the above and specific experience with and knowledge of the specific stove and flue is needed.

A car engine only runs while it has fuel, air, and ignition. It's the same with a wood stove. Feed it too much wood and air and it may take off and over fire, overheating the flue and stove. This situation can be dangerous. Cut off too much air and close the damper too much, too early, and the fire will smolder, which can also cause problems. Independent stovetop and flue thermometers are extremely helpful and in my opinion, should be required.

A wood stove is *unlike* a car engine in one important way, however: the gas and brake pedals on a car typically respond immediately. Hit the brakes and you stop; mash the pedal and the car accelerates. On some wood stoves, it can take some time for the stove to respond when you close the damper or air inlets. It takes time to spool up and spool down. So when starting a fire, you'll have to learn when to start closing the damper and air inlets before an over fire situation occurs.

I know people who have stoves that they can start and "walk away from" but I would never recommend that. It can be far too easy (especially with an insulated flue and/or chimney chase) to start a fire in the stove and leave the stove for 5 minutes, only to come back and find the stove flue at 6 or 800f. It is safer to watch the flue temp rise and start closing the damper (braking the car) as the stove enters the correct temp range than it is to try to slow everything down when the temp is already too high.

There are of course other safety devices that can be used as well, in addition to the independent stovetop and flue thermometers, such as an appropriately sized and matched fire extinguisher.

Stove and flue systems have a "sweet spot" where they can be quite safe and efficient but it does take actual practice in my opinion to get comfortable with them. The information you find here from certified and experienced people is the first step and will hopefully point you in the right direction.

 

[Mikey pellet guy]

Some of those people aren't as knowledgeable as they think they are.

Maybe true but everybody has there own experience with what they have learned , no one ever said you have to take the advice. We all have some kind of burning appliance & thats what its about we all have the same intrest in something wood burners.

 

[blacktail]

Maybe true but everybody has there own experience with what they have learned , no one ever said you have to take the advice. We all have some kind of burning appliance & thats what its about we all have the same intrest in something wood burners.

The OP said they're apprehensive about a wood stove because they've run into a lot of "knowledgeable" people having chimney fires. I'm not claiming to be a pro. I just think we all know people who would consider themselves knowledgeable in the world of wood heat because they've been burning wood for a certain number of years. Many of those people have slammer inserts, burn green wood, and think softwoods cause chimney fires.

 

[xman23]

Thank you so much, can you tell me what you mean by the above? Do you mean an open, masonry fireplace? Does it not have a damper?

Yes, Dad built the house. The fire place was a large heatalator built into a huge masonry wall / chimney. A chimney fire could burn forever and you wouldn't know it. The flue damper is used to stop house heat from going up the chimney.

 

[xman23]

Great thread. I consider myself a seasoned wood burner, but read all the responses. You can always learn something new. There are very knowledgeable professionals here, all with excellent answers.

I think the Class A insulated metal chimney of the correct size for the stove is the way to go. Creosote build up is caused by unseasoned wood, smoldering fires, and cold chimneys. Masonry chimneys can be to cold for a woodstove, although it's done. Straight up out of the stove to the roof with a the proper height chimney. Of course there are allowable variations to this.The stove should be installed with all the clearances, chimney and hearth requirements as outline in the owners manual. Do to much wrong and you may not know it until something bad happens. That said, installing monitoring and running a safe stove is not a hard thing to do.

 

[xman23]

Random thoughts . . . as a firefighter since 1990, full time fire prevention officer since 1995 and a woodstove user since 2008.

Since you asked . . . zero chimney fires since 2008. There is a possibility that I may have had something small going on in the first week or two when I was still learning how to use the stove and was burning less-than-optimal wood . . .but even that was nothing . . . and in all honestly I'm not really sure if it was a true chimney fire since things never got hot and the only possible sign of a fire was a minute or so of the sound of rice krispies falling down my stove pipe. Since then . . . nothing.

)

Jake, I the early years I would get that sound of Rice Krispies falling down the stove pipe. Due to a cold cabin I would push the stove at 650 for hours. I don't think it was a fire, but more that the chimney up top was getting hot enough to expand the metal, and dislodging the light glazed creosote chips. Hopefully. It doesn't happen anymore since I don't run at those temps.

 

[EJL923]

The OP said they're apprehensive about a wood stove because they've run into a lot of "knowledgeable" people having chimney fires. I'm not claiming to be a pro. I just think we all know people who would consider themselves knowledgeable in the world of wood heat because they've been burning wood for a certain number of years. Many of those people have slammer inserts, burn green wood, and think softwoods cause chimney fires.

My thoughts exactly, this forum is full of stories about old timers who've been burning forever and some of those stories scare the heck out of me. I mean some of those stories involve people burning their chimney hot to clean it. Follow the advice of the guys on this forum and there will be no need to worry.

 

[edyit]

usually when the "old time burners" start talking about burning tin / aluminium cans to remove the creosote in their chimney I stop paying attention to them...

Burn good dry wood without smoldering it or going into a full inferno, (the goldilocks zone) maintain proper clearance to combustibles and hearth ratings, and always empty ashes into a metal can with a lid that is stored, preferably, outside on a noncombustible surface.

 

[firefighterjake]

usually when the "old time burners" start talking about burning tin / aluminium cans to remove the creosote in their chimney I stop paying attention to them...

Burn good dry wood without smoldering it or going into a full inferno, (the goldilocks zone) maintain proper clearance to combustibles and hearth ratings, and always empty ashes into a metal can with a lid that is stored, preferably, outside on a noncombustible surface.

. . . and let's not forget about burning the potato peels or stuffing the chimney with a bunch of hay and setting it on fire.

 

[enigmablaze]

Even with a front-loader, smoke roll-out usually isn't a problem if your chimney is tall enough to meet the maker's required minimum height, usually specified int the manual. Draft will be weaker when it's warm outside, so you may have to be careful at that time...open the door a crack to evacuate the smoke out of the box, then open the door slowly. If you wait until the load is down to coals before you re-load, there won't be any smoke in the box anyway.
If your wood is dry, and you inspect your chimney from time to time, it's not something you really have to be worried about. There won't be anything to ignite down low in the pipe, just a little soot, and higher in the pipe, where heat diminishes, fires would be less likely to start up there.
What is your chimney setup going to be, liner in a masonry chimney, or through the roof Class A? If you are venting either through the interior of the house, the chimney will stay even warmer, and creosote deposits are even less likely except at the top where the flue exits the roof. There might be a few flaky deposits up there by the end of the season, but very little chance of it igniting unless you have a run-away fire in the stove (also not likely once you are familiar with how your stove runs and are comfortable with its operation.) I've stuck my hand in the top of the flue when my stove is running (Insulated liner in exterior masonry chimney) and the exhaust is barely warm at the top of the stack...not much chance of anything igniting up there under normal conditions.
Yep, you are still overly concerned, but you seem to be getting a little better. Chimney fires are extremely unlikely if you clean your chimney on a timely basis (once a season for me,) and take care when ramping your stove up to temp on a fresh load (I use the timer in my phone so I don't get distracted when I have the air open.)
Class A double-wall has insulation between the layers, thus keeps flue gas temps high and creo deposits to a minimum. Here is a description:
"....blanket insulation encased between dual walls, offers the optimum in safety and performance. It keeps the outer wall of the chimney cool, while ensuring high flue gas temperatures for optimum draft performance. The inner wall is 25% thicker than competitive chimneys for an extra margin of safety. No locking bands or mechanical fasteners required. sleek 1" wall design provides for easy installations through 16" on-center framing. Designed for normal, continuous operation at 1000° F flue gas temperatures, subjected to rigorous and stringent HT requirements of the UL standard, including one hour at 1400° F, plus three ten minute chimney fire tests at 2100° F."
Here is a FAQ link on liner and pipe, and their opinion on Class A.
(broken link removed to http://www.hartshearth.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPages.asp?idpage=15)
(broken link removed to http://www.hartshearth.com/ProductCart/pc/viewcontent.asp?idpage=4)
I wanted the tee for cleaning convenience. If you top-vented and had a telescoping slip connector, the entry point would be higher when sweeping from the bottom, and that might be easier for feeding the brush and rods.
For sure, get your wood split, stacked and top-covered ASAP to take a advantage of the spring breezes and get a jump on drying your wood. Post in the "Wood Shed" forum for advice on getting your wood.

Is it ok to wait until coals to reload or does that let the temperature drop too much? I understand the coals are not contributing creosote but as the flames burn out is the flue temp dropping too much? What you say about the soot in the lower pipe and the creosote in the upper pipe is encouraging. I expect that there would be at least 10-12 feet of pipe inside the house too before going out the roof so that is making me feel more comfortable too. Haha, I think I am doing a little better! I think if we back-vented a "T" would be most convenient.

I agree start collecting wood now. Find a certified pro that will spend time with you, and make sure your have the knowledge to run the appliance properly. Don't rely on some guy that says I been burning since I was knee high to a grass hopper. I have gotten some bad advice from those old guys, and the more I read hear the more I am amazed the old guys house hasn't burnt down.

There is a lot of safety build in to the modern wood stoves, but get a certified pro for the install.

I had a couple guys from a very professional install/sweep company today and I was super impressed with them. They are both firefighters too and they definitely made me feel better. I have also contacted a local wood supplier who say they have partially seasoned wood that would be by next season so I need to learn more about that and possibly get some ordered.

You said you were a mother so I can relate, As a father w/ young kids in the house I take wood burning safety and home fires seriously. So along with all the good advice here about chimney fire prevention, burning seasoned wood, etc. from a fire safety stand point I also have smoke alarms in every room in the house, including the hallway, for a total of 6. (and remember, they have a shelf life, so replace them per. manufacturer specs) I also have a couple fire ext. stashed around the house, including one in my bedroom behind the headboard of our bed so in the event of a fire at night it gives me an option within reach, with the idea not necessarily to extinguish the fire, but a tool to help me get the family to safety. I think along with stove safety, planning for the worst and having some simple safety measures in place to give you an advantage is also important and may help give you some peace of mind to enjoy your wood stove, I know we sure do!

I had not thought of keeping a fire extinguisher near the bed in case of needing a "route"...that seems a good idea anyway. So it sounds like you would say that the safety concerns are definitely subordinate to the enjoyment of the stove for your family?

You are doing the *right* thing by looking for information, considering safety, and seeking the correct way.

Why do you want a stove? I wanted the freedom from having to buy fuel, such as pellets, and also wanted to have a backup heat source, among other things. However, many people I associate with these days really like their gas furnaces and beyond those, pellet stoves. A pellet stove, in my opinion, should be much safer and very efficient.

If you still would like to have a wood stove, I would just add a few comments that might help you understand them better. In my opinion, a wood stove is like a car engine; fill up the fuel tank with gas; turn on the engine; step on the gas pedal to drive the car; use the brakes to slow or stop. With a wood stove, the gas is the wood (fuel), the gas pedal (throttle) is the stove's air inlet system, and the brake is the damper. Many stoves have different configurations of the above and specific experience with and knowledge of the specific stove and flue is needed.

A car engine only runs while it has fuel, air, and ignition. It's the same with a wood stove. Feed it too much wood and air and it may take off and over fire, overheating the flue and stove. This situation can be dangerous. Cut off too much air and close the damper too much, too early, and the fire will smolder, which can also cause problems. Independent stovetop and flue thermometers are extremely helpful and in my opinion, should be required.

A wood stove is *unlike* a car engine in one important way, however: the gas and brake pedals on a car typically respond immediately. Hit the brakes and you stop; mash the pedal and the car accelerates. On some wood stoves, it can take some time for the stove to respond when you close the damper or air inlets. It takes time to spool up and spool down. So when starting a fire, you'll have to learn when to start closing the damper and air inlets before an over fire situation occurs.

I know people who have stoves that they can start and "walk away from" but I would never recommend that. It can be far too easy (especially with an insulated flue and/or chimney chase) to start a fire in the stove and leave the stove for 5 minutes, only to come back and find the stove flue at 6 or 800f. It is safer to watch the flue temp rise and start closing the damper (braking the car) as the stove enters the correct temp range than it is to try to slow everything down when the temp is already too high.

There are of course other safety devices that can be used as well, in addition to the independent stovetop and flue thermometers, such as an appropriately sized and matched fire extinguisher.

Stove and flue systems have a "sweet spot" where they can be quite safe and efficient but it does take actual practice in my opinion to get comfortable with them. The information you find here from certified and experienced people is the first step and will hopefully point you in the right direction.

I looked briefly into pellet stoves but the electricity is a deal-breaker. We have outages occasionally and have no way to heat this house without it so that is a major motivator in adding an off-grid heating source...for cooking too if needed . I'm really glad you said what you did about the lagged reaction in the stoves. I had never thought about that but it totally makes sense. I have a feeling for a while we would be VERY "babysitty" with the stove...partially out of pleasure and partially nerves .

Great thread. I consider myself a seasoned wood burner, but read all the responses. You can always learn something new. There are very knowledgeable professionals here, all with excellent answers.

I think the Class A insulated metal chimney of the correct size for the stove is the way to go. Creosote build up is caused by unseasoned wood, smoldering fires, and cold chimneys. Masonry chimneys can be to cold for a woodstove, although it's done. Straight up out of the stove to the roof with a the proper height chimney. Of course there are allowable variations to this.The stove should be installed with all the clearances, chimney and hearth requirements as outline in the owners manual. Do to much wrong and you may not know it until something bad happens. That said, installing monitoring and running a safe stove is not a hard thing to do.

The folks I spoke with today said definitely Class A (they quoted me "DuraTech"...is that a good one???).

. . . and let's not forget about burning the potato peels or stuffing the chimney with a bunch of hay and setting it on fire.

This is terrifying... :O

 

[enigmablaze]

I've never heard of a roof catching on fire from a chimney fire. I suppose it is possible, maybe if the roof had less of a pitch or was cedar shakes vs. asphalt or metal roofing. Even then I suspect the chimney fire would have to be pretty intense. What I've seen most often is a chimney chocker blocker full of creosote burning away so that we've had to put out the fire before it can cause damage to the liner. Almost every single time -- in fact all that I can remember -- these chimney fires have been in older masonry chimneys and the common denominator has always been a failure to inspect and clean the chimney. Most of these fires have not been a big deal. The few that were a little more serious tended to be in homes where the installation was not just out of code and the proverbial box, but in fact were installed in a way that almost made it look like the home owner read the code and did everything the opposite . . . the other times chimney fires have been a little more of a concern is in older chimneys when either they are unlined, the clay liner is cracked and degraded or the chimney was built too close to wood framing and embers and/or the heat managed to set the house on fire. I honestly cannot recall any fires in a modern Class A or metal lined chimney.

Our roof is a fairly normal, steep pitch with asphalt shingles. The firefighters I spoke with locally today said the same thing...in our area (with lots of chimneys) they have maybe 3-4 a year and have never seen one in a Class A chimney. They said it being smooth, round and insulated all help.

 

[firefighterjake]

Re: Fire extinguisher near the bed to clear a route.

Extinguishers are good. Smoke detectors are better. Just one working smoke detector increases your chance of surviving a fire by fifty percent. Studies have shown that if people immediately react to a smoke detector's warning they usually have time to exit the home through a door ... if not ... most everyone has a window they can go out.

Don't forget ... what kills most folks in a fire isn't the flames ... it's the smoke. A fire extinguisher cannot help clear a path or protect you from the smoke.

That said ... it's still not a bad idea to have an extinguisher close to hand ... or in various locations in the home to deal with any potential small fires ... so one isn't searching in the back of a closet or in their garage.

 

[Woody Stover]

Is it ok to wait until coals to reload or does that let the temperature drop too much? I understand the coals are not contributing creosote but as the flames burn out is the flue temp dropping too much?

Right, flue temps will drop a bit in the coaling stage but it's not a safety concern since little creosote is being produced at that point in the burn. As far as heat output, sometimes I will open the air a little bit when the load is down to coals; This will burn the coals a bit hotter and keep the stove temp at 350+....usually plenty to maintain room temp at a comfortable level. You have to burn down the coals at some point to make room for the next full load.

I have also contacted a local wood supplier who say they have partially seasoned wood that would be by next season so I need to learn more about that and possibly get some ordered.

You need to know what stove you are getting so that you know what is the longest wood that will fit. You can get up to speed on what type of stove you want, in the sticky thread at the top of the topic page or searching for threads under "forums" above, using keywords like "which stove" etc. If necessary to finalize your selection, you can start another thread here.
If the wood from the seller you contacted is already split and stacked now, ask when, it may have a decent head start on drying. I would still take a moisture meter and re-split and check several of the larger splits, before I would order. You want something that is maybe about 28% moisture, maximum, in order to get it dry by fall. I wouldn't consider any wood that isn't already split....you can do much better on your own, out in the woods. Best would be to stack it in a single row where the wind can blow through, and top-cover the stack. If you buy wood, ask for White Ash, soft Maple, Black Cherry or other fast-drying types...they won't burn as long as some others, but dry wood is paramount. If not exclusively quick-drying species, I would order enough mixed wood so that I could separate the Oak or other dense species and put those in a different stack for the '18-'19 season, since dense woods take longer to dry. Oak may well be the slowest, though.
With that 40-acre wood lot, you can find a ton of smaller trees (bark gone, as I mentioned above) that will be ready now, or by this fall...plenty to get you through next season, if you have to time to go out there, get it, and process it. You have to be in decent shape to be able to split your wood by hand, and there are some species that you pretty much would need a power splitter for. In IL, you may have a bunch of White Ash that has been killed by the Emerald Ash Borer. It is easy-splitting wood that should be ready to go this fall, if stacked now and not split too big. Upper branches of dead trees will be drier than the trunks.

I looked briefly into pellet stoves but the electricity is a deal-breaker.

Not to mention the noise.

I have a feeling for a while we would be VERY "babysitty" with the stove...partially out of pleasure and partially nerves .

Yep, different types of stoves run differently, different types and sizes of wood burn differently, etc so there is a learning curve before you feel comfortable. You can start burning on weekends when you are there to watch, and gradually get to where you are comfortable loading the stove, getting it into cruise mode, and leaving the house.

The folks I spoke with today said definitely Class A (they quoted me "DuraTech"...is that a good one???).

Look at the second link I put into post #33...Dura Tech is one chimney brand mentioned.

This is terrifying... :O

So was driving a car at first, remember? Once you know how to do both, operating a car is much more terrifying than operating a wood stove.

 

[OhioBurner©]

I guess I get most concerned when coming across folks who have had chimney fires when they clean their chimney every month

I think someone already said that is red flag right there, if they are cleaning monthly it means they must be having serious creosote problems so they are the ones likely to have a chimney fire. This could be poor burning habits, or old inefficient stoves (often called 'smoke dragons') or combo of both. A lot of folks think they are experts because they have burned wood for so many decades but that itself doesn't make one an expert... especially since new EPA stoves operate very different from the old smoke dragons.

Just to throw myself out there for an example... when I first moved into my house it had an old no-named old stove and an unlined masonry chimney. I bought most of my wood during the summer and fall for the winter. Not only did that thing produce a lot of creosote it would actually plug up the chimney solid after a couple months if not cleaned. Fast forward a couple years to when I put in a new Jotul insert in my fireplace and an insulated stainless steel liner. I also researched on here and learned more about techniques. My wood was still within a year old mostly, but there was so little creosote in the flue I could probably have reduced my cleaning to maybe once every 3-4 years! (but still inspect at least yearly). Such a huge difference!

For example here is one year of buildup in the 22' liner from my Jotul. I remove the baffle plate inside the stove and the flue empties right into the firebox. I put a soup can in there just for size reference.



My old stove would fill a 5 gallon bucket in a couple/few months.