Getting the heat from the rooms that have it to the rooms that need it

[Gridlock]

My house is approximately 2500 sq ft. The wood stove is in the living room on the first floor, which is vaulted to the second floor which then opens to rest of the entire second floor. The second floor is used very little. There are two bedrooms on the first floor at the end of a hall on the opposite side of the house from the wood stove.

The problem is that a high percentage of the heat from the stove is going up to the second floor which is not needed since it is not used much. I also don't get much heat to the bedrooms, so need to use electric radiant heaters in those rooms at night. I installed a fan in the living room (which hangs downward from the 2nd floor ceiing) to try to keep more heat from rising to the second floor; it helps but it can only do so much.

Is there any way to both keep more of that heat from rising to the unused second floor, and to distribute some of that heat to the back bedrooms? Will a couple of fans aimed from the stove toward the bedrooms help much?

One idea I had is to rig a duct with a fan that is installed between the two floors that draws heat from the 2nd floor (part of the 2nd floor which gets very warm is directly over the bedrooms, which do not) and pipes it down to the bedrooms on the first floor; does something like this exist?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It sounds like you have ceiling fans trying to keep the heat down. I'm also betting you are doing what we always did before we learned the correct way. Set the fans so they blow up and not down. It sounds backwards but it works. For the colder rooms the key is to blow the cold air out rather than trying to blow the cold air in.

We have a long hallway and now to get heat to the farthest room we use a very small fan, set on low speed. We set this fan on the floor at the entry to the hallway and blow the cool air into the stove room. It really works!

I see the problem with your layout and understand why you want a duct. But first try the suggestions and see if it helps as it could be a really cheap fix that works well. Good luck.

 

[Gridlock]

It sounds like you have ceiling fans trying to keep the heat down. I'm also betting you are doing what we always did before we learned the correct way. Set the fans so they blow up and not down. It sounds backwards but it works. For the colder rooms the key is to blow the cold air out rather than trying to blow the cold air in.

We have a long hallway and now to get heat to the farthest room we use a very small fan, set on low speed. We set this fan on the floor at the entry to the hallway and blow the cool air into the stove room. It really works!

I see the problem with your layout and understand why you want a duct. But first try the suggestions and see if it helps as it could be a really cheap fix that works well. Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestions; I'm not completely clear on a couple of points:

"For the colder rooms the key is to blow the cold air out rather than trying to blow the cold air in." - Did you mean blow the warm air in?

"We have a long hallway and now to get heat to the farthest room we use a very small fan, set on low speed. We set this fan on the floor at the entry to the hallway and blow the cool air into the stove room. It really works!" - Hmmm, I have trouble seeing how this would work; I could see maybe installing the fan in the bedroom window to blow the cool air out and create negative pressure which might draw the warm air from the living room into the bedroom....

"It sounds like you have ceiling fans trying to keep the heat down." - That is correct. The problem with blowing upward is that the top leads into a much larger area on the second floor, so not sure if the warm air will ultimately make its way back down.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Gridlock, as you can tell, I did not proof read that post. lol

Blow the cold air towards the stove. You don't want to put a fan in a window though. Just sit a small fan on the floor (the coolest part as cool air drops and warm air rises).

Here is some of the theory: First, cool air is denser and heavier than warm air and that is why warm air rises and the opposite happens with cool air. So we move the denser air into the warmer room which will force the warm air out. When we move the cool air out, that air has to be replaced and it is replaced with the warmer air coming from the stove room. On the ceiling fans, you try to go with the natural flow of air. Along the walls of the house it will be cooler and therefore that cool air goes down to the floor. What happens then? Well, it forces the warmer air up creating a flow of air going up in the middle and down along the outer walls. So we just help that natural flow along rather than trying to reverse it. So the air going up you just move a little faster so it doesn't pocket at the top. The only way to know for sure if it will work is to try it. I do understand that your layout could possibly cause some problems but you have nothing to lose by experimenting.

I know this sounds backwards and I could hardly believe it when I read about it. As you can tell by my signature line this wood heating is not new to us but this idea was. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but that is false for sure because this old dog is always willing to learn new tricks.

Good luck.

 

[Gridlock]

Gridlock, as you can tell, I did not proof read that post. lol

Blow the cold air towards the stove. You don't want to put a fan in a window though. Just sit a small fan on the floor (the coolest part as cool air drops and warm air rises).

Here is some of the theory: First, cool air is denser and heavier than warm air and that is why warm air rises and the opposite happens with cool air. So we move the denser air into the warmer room which will force the warm air out. When we move the cool air out, that air has to be replaced and it is replaced with the warmer air coming from the stove room. On the ceiling fans, you try to go with the natural flow of air. Along the walls of the house it will be cooler and therefore that cool air goes down to the floor. What happens then? Well, it forces the warmer air up creating a flow of air going up in the middle and down along the outer walls. So we just help that natural flow along rather than trying to reverse it. So the air going up you just move a little faster so it doesn't pocket at the top. The only way to know for sure if it will work is to try it. I do understand that your layout could possibly cause some problems but you have nothing to lose by experimenting.

I know this sounds backwards and I could hardly believe it when I read about it. As you can tell by my signature line this wood heating is not new to us but this idea was. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but that is false for sure because this old dog is always willing to learn new tricks.

Good luck.

The problem with the ceiling fan is that only one side of the upstairs wall is shared with the downstairs. The rest of the upstairs opening is completely open to the entire second floor. so I'm afraid that the natural flow of air will tend to fill the rest of the space upstairs rather than flowing back down.

I suppose I can try your technique of blowing cold air out the bedroom. I still believe that trying to create a duct upstairs where there is lots of wasted heat and forcing it back down would ultimately be a better solution; I do wonder if anyone has tried this and if the hardware is available for it.

Thanks

 

[SolarAndWood]

We were using a large pedestal fan trying to move the hot air and have since replaced it with a much smaller floor model. Works much better and uses the natural currents in the house. A duct to move hot air down may be like trying to fight the flow of the river.

 

[Shari]

+1 on what BackwoodSavage said. We didn't believe it either - until we tried it.

Shari

 

[spencer186]

You could always try the same principle with the ductwork. Instead of trying to force the warm air down, blow the cold air up from the bedrooms you are trying to heat. This will lower the air pressure in those rooms and effectively draw more heat down the hallway. In theory anyway. If it dosent work, you can always reverse the fan. I imagine you could use an attic fan installed in some duct work.

 

[summit]

Gridlock, as you can tell, I did not proof read that post. lol

Blow the cold air towards the stove. You don't want to put a fan in a window though. Just sit a small fan on the floor (the coolest part as cool air drops and warm air rises).

Here is some of the theory: First, cool air is denser and heavier than warm air and that is why warm air rises and the opposite happens with cool air. So we move the denser air into the warmer room which will force the warm air out. When we move the cool air out, that air has to be replaced and it is replaced with the warmer air coming from the stove room. On the ceiling fans, you try to go with the natural flow of air. Along the walls of the house it will be cooler and therefore that cool air goes down to the floor. What happens then? Well, it forces the warmer air up creating a flow of air going up in the middle and down along the outer walls. So we just help that natural flow along rather than trying to reverse it. So the air going up you just move a little faster so it doesn't pocket at the top. The only way to know for sure if it will work is to try it. I do understand that your layout could possibly cause some problems but you have nothing to lose by experimenting.

I know this sounds backwards and I could hardly believe it when I read about it. As you can tell by my signature line this wood heating is not new to us but this idea was. They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but that is false for sure because this old dog is always willing to learn new tricks.

Good luck.

The problem with the ceiling fan is that only one side of the upstairs wall is shared with the downstairs. The rest of the upstairs opening is completely open to the entire second floor. so I'm afraid that the natural flow of air will tend to fill the rest of the space upstairs rather than flowing back down.

I suppose I can try your technique of blowing cold air out the bedroom. I still believe that trying to create a duct upstairs where there is lots of wasted heat and forcing it back down would ultimately be a better solution; I do wonder if anyone has tried this and if the hardware is available for it.

Thanks

Gridlock, don't over analyze it, just try it. Part of this forum is to get some new ideas, and other times, try to implement them. Heating your house with any kind of space heater is gonna require trial and error a bit. Just give it a shot, and let us know if it works for you. You got nothing to lose to try out making the fan draw for a few days than what you are already achieving with it pushing down. Especially this time o' yr: coming into spring, longer mild stretches, good time to judge it, try some things. It'd be a cheap option (flipping a switch) vs. installing and trimming out a pass thru fan if it works out. I will agree with you that the pass thru fan is a horny idea, and would probably work if you implemented it. But why run more electricity?

 

[Shari]

Forgot to mention: The fan we are running in our hallway is just a little old 6" fan set on 'low'. On really cold days we also run a ceiling fan (pulling air 'up') in the adjacent dining room.

Shari

 

[Eastern Sierra Wood Burner]

Checkout northineexpress.com under "fans and blowers". They have some products that can transfer heat around a house. I would rather have a ducting in the wall solution than the temporary looking solution of a fan sitting on the floor.

 

[vvvv]

The only reason for blowing a ceiling fan up is so that a breeze is not felt below it & it in fact pressurizes the area above the fan which will result in more heat penetration above the fan.

 

[Mainely Saws]

Gridlock ,
I like the idea of the duct work from the high warm ceiling to wherever you want the heat . I used to work in an old airplane hangar & that is a method that was used because all of the heat went directly to the very high ceiling & just stayed there . The duct that was used was just a big fan hung from just below the ceiling with a round fabric tube connecting from the fan to just a few feet from the hangar floor . If you went over & felt the air coming out the bottom of the fabric duct it was very warm . There were numerous of these around the very large hangar & it made a real difference .
I use a ceiling fan in my home with the air direction going upwards which circulates the warm down the colder outside walls & it works well but in your case there is so much open area that a warm air duct to transfer the heat sounds like just the ticket . After all , that is just what a forced hot air furnace does , it moves the warm air to all points throughout the house by means of a fan through ducting . You might have to experiment a bit with how much air to move & when . Let us know how it works out .

Bob

 

[Gridlock]

We were using a large pedestal fan trying to move the hot air and have since replaced it with a much smaller floor model. Works much better and uses the natural currents in the house. A duct to move hot air down may be like trying to fight the flow of the river.

Well keep in mind that I'd be moving heating air to a lower room that has a ceiling. The room is open right above the stove, but is not above the bedroom. The heated air from the stove fills the entire upstairs which is hardly used. The duct would draw that heated air and send it down a level to the bedroom where it should stay.

 

[Gridlock]

Gridlock, don't over analyze it, just try it. Part of this forum is to get some new ideas, and other times, try to implement them. Heating your house with any kind of space heater is gonna require trial and error a bit. Just give it a shot, and let us know if it works for you. You got nothing to lose to try out making the fan draw for a few days than what you are already achieving with it pushing down. Especially this time o' yr: coming into spring, longer mild stretches, good time to judge it, try some things. It'd be a cheap option (flipping a switch) vs. installing and trimming out a pass thru fan if it works out. I will agree with you that the pass thru fan is a horny idea, and would probably work if you implemented it. But why run more electricity?

I'm a software engineer by trade, so I've been trained to analyze! Seriously, I'll give it a shot.

Thanks

 

[Gridlock]

Checkout northineexpress.com under "fans and blowers". They have some products that can transfer heat around a house. I would rather have a ducting in the wall solution than the temporary looking solution of a fan sitting on the floor.

Thank You! They look like they might have what I had been looking for. Interestingly I just bought a wood cart from them but did not notice that they sell this type of product. By the way the correct URL is northlineexpress.com (an 'L' was missing).

 

[vvvv]

A duct does develop resistance to airflow. I'd consider a duct which blows cold air from the room to the stove at a remote distance from the door where the intake air for the blower has to cross the room to get to the blower.

 

[Shari]

Simple - cheap : Close the unused bedroom doors upstairs. Set a small fan on the floor and pull air from the cold parts of your home & blow the cold air toward the room where your stove is. If you have a ceiling fan, turn it on and blow air up. Simple - cheap - works.

Our full bathroom is about the farthest room from our stove. Our results of using just the small floor fan: Before fans/toilet seat cold. After fans/toilet seat warm.

Shari

 

[Gridlock]

A duct does develop resistance to airflow. I'd consider a duct which blows cold air from the room to the stove at a remote distance from the door where the intake air for the blower has to cross the room to get to the blower.

Hmmm, sorry not following you.

 

[Gridlock]

Simple - cheap : Close the unused bedroom doors upstairs. Set a small fan on the floor and pull air from the cold parts of your home & blow the cold air toward the room where your stove is. If you have a ceiling fan, turn it on and blow air up. Simple - cheap - works.

Our full bathroom is about the farthest room from our stove. Our results of using just the small floor fan: Before fans/toilet seat cold. After fans/toilet seat warm.

Shari

It's always nice to have a warm toilet seat (I have electric ceiling heaters in the bathrooms which work great)! As you and Backwoods Savage have suggested, I'll try reversing the ceiling fan. The bedrooms are downstairs, not upstairs. Most of the upstairs is completely open, which fills with heat from the downstairs stove which goes up through the vaulted open ceiling which then fills the rest of the upstairs. I'll try to blow the cold air out of the downstairs bedrooms, but it has a long way to go to reach the location of the stove.

Thanks

 

[vvvv]

A duct does develop resistance to airflow. I'd consider a duct which blows cold air from the room to the stove at a remote distance from the door where the intake air for the blower has to cross the room to get to the blower.

Hmmm, sorry not following you.

A blower is located in the cold room [ideally in the coldest area] which blows cold air into a duct which terminates @ the stove. blower delivers cold [dense] air to the stove but needs to pull air back to its intake & to do so has to pull air essentially from the end of the duct near the stove [which is the high pressure zone] to the air intake of the blower[which is the low pressure zone].

 

[Gridlock]

Thanks for everyones help. I ended up finding a specialty level-to-level heat transfer fan: http://www.tjernlund.com/Tjernlund_Aireshare_Lit_8500730.pdf which I purchased through http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200394844_200394844. At $180 it's a bit pricey, but will hopefully do the trick. It seems like it will be a nice clean installation.

 

[Lighting Up]

Simple - cheap : Close the unused bedroom doors upstairs. Set a small fan on the floor and pull air from the cold parts of your home & blow the cold air toward the room where your stove is. If you have a ceiling fan, turn it on and blow air up. Simple - cheap - works.

Our full bathroom is about the farthest room from our stove. Our results of using just the small floor fan: Before fans/toilet seat cold. After fans/toilet seat warm.

Shari

doing this now and it works great idea...
md

 

[Shari]

Simple - cheap : Close the unused bedroom doors upstairs. Set a small fan on the floor and pull air from the cold parts of your home & blow the cold air toward the room where your stove is. If you have a ceiling fan, turn it on and blow air up. Simple - cheap - works.

Our full bathroom is about the farthest room from our stove. Our results of using just the small floor fan: Before fans/toilet seat cold. After fans/toilet seat warm.

Shari

doing this now and it works great idea...
md

I learned it here. It is easier to move cold air towards heated air than vice versa. Where cold air is drawn from heated air replaces it. Simple science. We accomplish this with a little fan I bought from the thrift store - cost was $2.

Shari