Go Big? Or Go Small?

[Johnny1977]

Hey Guys,
I am getting ready to buy a new Jotul fireplace insert. The dilema I am facing is do I buy the biggest one that will fit in my firebox (Rockland C550), or do I
buy a smaller one so I can burn it with the damper wide open more? The insert will be in my living room, and I don't want to be driven from my living room when the insert gets goin. What are your thoughts? I was told an insert is like a space heater, and to try and heat a whole house with one will make the rooms close by unliveable because of the heat.


thanks, Johnny

 

[webbie]

A couple factors....which may apply to you. Some of them are spelled out in this article:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/choosing_a_wood_stove

One factor is your supply of wood. If you have a limited supply, then it is better to burn it in a smaller stove - in general
Another is the fact that you are probably using softwood - this means a bigger firebox is needed for the same burn time and output.

As with any other such purchase, you have to carefully think things through. Ask yourself the right questions....about how you really intend to use the stove. A 24/7 burner who has unlimited wood and wants to save every dime possible might choose the larger stove, while someone who wants to burn evenings and weekends might choose the smaller, etc.

 

[Highbeam]

Always get the biggest insert that will fit. Well, almost always. There is no need to burn a stove with an open draft to make it clean, those were the old days. You want the bigger firebox to allow you room to build your fire and to load enough wood for longer burns. None of the inserts will cook you out of a room since they require a blower to make much heat and if you get too hot then just shut the blower off.

So yes, the 550.

 

[Johnny1977]

Ok, great. I will read that article, and make my decision.

So with the bigger stove I get more versatility? Small loads, big loads, overnight burn, burn slow with the damper choked down almost all the way?
Seems like a no-brainer then... i was told by a guy with an old stove that you wanted something small so, you could burn it wide open and get a clean
burn. I guess those days are gone.

 

[Slow1]

Something I will add that I feel is important is the layout of your room/house. If you are putting the stove into a room that is more enclosed - i.e. has a single door and is smaller then you are more likely have the heat trapped than if you put the stove in a room that is part of a large 'open plan' style home where essentially there are few walls around the room and air can flow easily in and out to carry the heat through the house. Most likely you are somewhere in between. Try to imagine the stove sitting there heating up the space and the hot air flowing slowly up - where is it going to flow? Where is the cold air going to flow into the room? If there are many places for it to go and come from then you are less likely to get overheated by the larger stove.

 

[madrone]

inserts are different, I'm told, but I'm glad to have a mid-size stove rather than a smaller one, even though I'm generally not a 24/7 burner. I have used it for up to a month as my only heat source. 2.2 cu ft box heating ~1200sqft 2-story in the Portland area.

 

[begreen]

Need more info. You are in a mild climate, so the C450 might be fine.

It would help to know a lot more about the house and the room the insert is going into. How large is the livingroom, how high is its ceiling? What is the overall sq ftg of the house? Is it an open floorplan with large openings from the living room or is the livingroom an area all by itself and closed off from the rest of the house?

 

[Johnny1977]

Yeah, I am in the Portland area which is milder than most northern climates. I live in a 1911 house with old windows and doors. The square footage
on the main floor is 714, it is not an open type floor plan. The total square footage above grade is 1428. Ceilings are 10ft. I am just worried that if I
get a Rockland C550 I will drive everyone out of the living room/dining room.

 

[Jags]

i was told by a guy with an old stove that you wanted something small so, you could burn it wide open and get a clean
burn. I guess those days are gone.

Yeah, don't bust that guys chops too hard. Old school rules is what he was referring to. Todays EPA stoves are a little different critter. BUT - ya still have to be able to burn them at safe temps. Feed us a little more info, like house layout. The brain trust here is amazing.

 

[Johnny1977]

Well as far as layout goes, the front door opens up into the living room which is about 300 square feet of space, off to the right is the dining room about 200 square feet of space (connected to the living room via french doors double wide). Through the dining room is the kitchen about 150 sq ft. The upstairs mirrors the main floor in square footage at about 715 square ft, and is connected to the main floor by a switch back staircase. The living room is where the old masonry fireplace is located, it has and exterior brick chimney, and is about 30 ft high...

 

[Jags]

If I have it pictured in my head correctly, your gonna want to be careful on the stove size. Creating a thermal loop is gonna be a son of a gun. Without the thermal loop to move air, you could overpower that room in short order.

A drawing would be really nice.

 

[Johnny1977]

I'll see if I can draw out the main floor plan tonight and post it.

 

[fossil]

In the Portland area, he may have access to hardwoods like Oak and Madrone. If so, that's something to consider, as well. Rick

 

[Johnny1977]

Hello this is a picture of my floor plan...http://files.me.com/jonathanbrawley/zuw5xv

The hearth is on the left in the living room, and also the stairs do a switch back thing so they are not just straight up.

Jon

 

[begreen]

This is a small home in a mild climate. Stick with a small to medium stove. You don't need the big guns. The C450 will be plenty.

 

[Johnny1977]

The total sq footage of the home is 1428. The upstairs is the same square footage as the main floor. The basement is about 700 sq ft also, but that wouldn't matter much because hot air rises, and the insert would be above the basement. Seems like I could get by fine with the winterport insert C350, or the Kennebeck C450.

 

[begreen]

Agreed. I'd probably go for the C450 if the goal is to provide a majority of the heat and the C350 if it's mostly for evenings and weekends.

 

[Johnny1977]

Thanks for the advice, I think the C450 would allow me to do as much or as little burning as I would need without driving me out of my living space.
thanks again for the advice.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Always get the biggest insert that will fit. Well, almost always. There is no need to burn a stove with an open draft to make it clean, those were the old days. You want the bigger firebox to allow you room to build your fire and to load enough wood for longer burns. None of the inserts will cook you out of a room since they require a blower to make much heat and if you get too hot then just shut the blower off.

So yes, the 550.

You can build a small fire in a big stove. You can't build a big fire in a small stove.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

This is a small, old, and poorly insulated home in a mild climate. Stick with a small to medium stove. You don't need the big guns. The C450 will be plenty.

I still vote big.

 

[bokehman]

i was told by a guy with an old stove that you wanted something small so, you could burn it wide open and get a clean burn. I guess those days are gone.

If you burn it wide open the other thing that will be gone is all your wood, straight up the chimney. The idea is you are trying to keep as much heat in the house as possible which is not going to happen if it is all wasted up the chimney.

 

[gerry100]

Also consider how many short burns ( < 12 hrs) you want to do in shoulder season.

A stove. doesn't stop heating until it burns out and the mass of the stove cools off.

So if you heat a big 500 pounder up for a 30 deg night and it goes over 50 the next day you may be opening windows to cool off.

I use a big stove ( Country Canyon now, Jumbo Moe before) and don't fire it up until the peak daytime temp are consistently low forties. ( usually late November around here)

If you want to do short burns a smaller stove might be best but you'll sacrifice if you need the output in January.

 

[begreen]

Invest on tightening up the house rather than oversizing the stove. Sealing up leaks and some insulation will give a much better return on investment and comfort.

 

[Slow1]

Invest on tightening up the house rather than oversizing the stove. Sealing up leaks and some insulation will give a much better return on investment and comfort.

+1

Not nearly as "sexy" to spend money and time on air sealing or insulation but the payback is pretty amazing when you look at the numbers - plus it pays back year round. Do a little research as I believe just about every state has some sort of additional incentives in place beyond the federal ones to encourage folks to improve their insulation.

 

[madrone]

Ok, I know I advocated for a bigger stove above in this thread, but I have to echo the winterizing comments. My house is 1910, previously very leaky and underinsulated. I brought the attic up to ~R26, (not the recommended value, I know, but a vast improvement, and the best I could do),spray foam and caulked a ton of leaks, and I'm in the middle of replacing my leaky windows with tax credit approved ones. Big difference so far. I'm interested to see how things go this winter, but I expect to not need to heat as much. My stove may see lots of small fires.

In fact, if I were buying a stove today, I'd probably look at the Jotul F400, or the PE Vista Classic. It is nice to be able to load up for overnighters if I want, but the truth is, I hardly ever do. In a power outage, I'd have to get up in the early morning and reload, or just wake up a little cold. This climate doesn't usually get as bad as last winter, so I'd probably take my chances on a slightly smaller stove next time around.

The review section of this website is very helpful as far as anecdotal experience with particular models.