Goodbye Defiant. Hello Mansfield.

[Heat Miser]

The burning season is almost over. After three years with my Defiant Catalytic I've finally decided to let it go. Early in the season I had a seal problem that was an easy fix, but since then I've needed refractory boards replaced and one catalytic element since we bought the stove in 2005. These were covered under their (short) warranty, but it was a major pain.

I also run the stove 24/7 during the winter and it just seemed like the performance got worse and worse the longer things went on and I burn dry wood seasoned over one year. Further, my warranty expired and parts are going to either be hard to get or very expensive with the problems VC is having.

On the positives though, the thermostatic control generally worked well. And the stove did put out a good deal of heat steadily when it was in its sweet spot. However these plusses are not enough to offset my general lack of confidence in the rest of the stove.

I hate talking bad about products. But sadly, I just don't think the Vermont Castings name is the same as it was many years ago. I was never happy with the build quality and components of the stove. My feeling is that the bean counters came in and wrecked the company while hiding behind their good name.

So I looked at the Hearthstone Mansfield. I was intrigued by the soapstone and the the quality appears top notch. The local dealer has been in business for over 30 years and has been a long time Hearthstone dealer. He carried other products, but seemed to think the Mansfield is what we need for our home size and heating needs. I'm happy with the function of the stove in the store and I think it is also a nice looking appliance which is also a plus.

The stove is coming Monday. The dealer has already reviewed our blueprints to make sure the stove will suit our needs. He will also do an onsite inspection before install just to make sure we don't need another product. That on top of Hearthstone's great warranty sealed the deal (well there was a $200 off sale going on now too).

I think I have another week or so of burning season to try it out. I'm pretty excited and hope that I won't have to mess with a replacement stove for a long time. Based on the reviews I've heard and seen of this stove I think it will serve me well.

 

[begreen]

Bummer heat miser, I agree that's a lot of maintenance for a new stove. Sorry to hear it's been a problem for you.

On the plus side?, with our chilly spring temps you may have lots of opportunity to try out the new stove. Who's your Hearthstone dealer?

 

[Heat Miser]

I'm buying from Bucks Stoves in Portland Oregon. They are local and seemed very down to Earth. I wanted to deal with a local dealer for logistic and warranty reasons. They also had competitive prices and had a good knowledge of many different products.

I think there is perhaps one VC dealer around me (where I bought my stove). I was very unhappy with their install and won't deal with them. When my stove was having problems they wouldn't come out to service it (even if I paid). They said they don't repair wood stoves during the winter because they're too busy. I asked them if they thought that AC repairmen shouldn't repair air conditioners in the summer because they're too busy. They didn't have an answer for that so I don't give them my money any more.

 

[begreen]

Keep us posted. I hope the Hearthstone is a real winner for you.

 

[Flame]

Good luck Heat Miser and welcome to the Mansfield group. This was my first winter with my Mansfield and I have been very pleased with the whole soapstone "gentle heat" effect. Below I will list some good, some bad and any tips I have discovered over my first burning season:

Good:
- Even after fire is out for a good while you still get long lasting heat (enough to keep the chill out) from the soapstone.
- Stove can be directly in your favorite room close by. The gentle heat wont force you out so you can sit right near by and enjoy the fire (my favorite attribute).
- Large glass window for viewing that really does a great job keeping it self clean.
- Secondary tubes make it easy. No baby sitting. just get the fire going and when it reaches temp the secondaries will kick in.
- I found that it left wonderful coals for the next fire each time. After a while I had so many coals that I had to scoop some out to make room for the second layer of wood.
- The stove just has a down right beautiful appearance.

Bad:
- Ash pan is a joke. Too shallow, grate system gets plugged with coals making it hard to slide closed. Is just messy when you pull the ash pan out. Not worth using, easier to just scoop the ashes out the old way.
- Very sensitive to wet / damp wood. Because of the fire box being soapstone (slower to heat up), it is difficult to get the wood to dry itself out quickly and light up like I had experienced with wet / damp wood in my cast iron stove.
- I have cooked with it (made omelet's in a very small cast iron pot), but it cooks much slower then a cast iron and it's best to cook when the stove is pumping out some good heat (stove to 450-500). You also have to be careful nothing dribbles over or it can stain the stone.

Tips:
- I found that stacking the logs high (even if it's just in the back of the fire box) gets those secondary tubes hot fast and this gets the secondaries going which in turn gets your heat up quicker.
- I usually formed a channel going down the center of the firebox with the logs slghlty proped up by the hot coals on each end. This way the air shot right from the air hole in the "dog house" and went under the wood, pulling the flames back over the top and right in to the air tubes.
- Just one or two chunks of coal lined up with the air hole acts like a blow torch and will get things lit up quickly.
- Strongly suggest installing a damper in your stack. It works great for keepng the heat in the fire box and out of the stack when the stack temp starts to climb. Also worked great for a long slow burn when closed up for the overnight burn.
- Get a stack probe temp gage and a stove top temp gage. They are a very useful tool to keep it all in tune and prevent overfire situations.
- If you are starting up after things have been cooled down and have no coals. I found that a few pieces of kindlin or a Bio Brick are great to help get things going quick.
- If your wood is damp or wet, toss in one or two Bio Bricks with the wood. It will get some heat going and speed things up.
- I'm not a paper fan and have found that Fat Wood is a great friend to have around.
- Plan a head. If you know the temps going to drop in two hours then get the fire going now.

I hope some of this will help you a long your journey.
Again best of luck and welcome aboard !

 

[Heat Miser]

Thanks for the tips, Flame. I agree the ashpan is not very functional. Seems easier to just scoop out the ashes. I'll be sure to try out your tips on starting the beast. As for the wet wood, I have heard the same issues from other owners. I try really hard not to burn wet/unseasoned wood. Even in my cast stove wet wood burns really poorly and requires the highest heat setting to keep things running.

Also about the chimney damper. I don't have one installed and would like to avoid the added complications of running the stove with one. Is it required to run the stove well with one for long burns, or is it just install dependent? I have a chimney that is perhaps 20-30ft. tall so draft has never been a problem. But perhaps too much draft could cause issues.

 

[Flame]

[Also about the chimney damper. I don’t have one installed and would like to avoid the added complications of running the stove with one. Is it required to run the stove well with one for long burns, or is it just install dependent? I have a chimney that is perhaps 20-30ft. tall so draft has never been a problem. But perhaps too much draft could cause issues.]

As for long burns I think you would still be fine without it "as long as" like you said you do not have an excessive draft issue. The Mansfield (and from what I understand most or all new EPA stoves) will not close off completely when the stove damper (primary air damper) is shut all the way (so they wont smoke out of the stack/chimney). When the stove damper is closed you will notice some space between the two side cover plates that cover the front draft slots (designed this way to still let some air in). Then you have two open holes at the bottom rear of the stove that feed air to the secondary air tubes at all times. This is all fine but a few times when the temperature outside was really cold, my draft was pretty strong. Without the stack damper my overnight burns would have been shorter and a lot of heat would have been lost up my continually climbing stack temp. It really helps in those instances. You can trully see the flames slow down. I think it is all dependant on your draft. You could always add it later if you think it becomes necessary. Just watch the temps so you don't reach over fire. There is another thread about a Mansfield owner that was watching his temps continuing to rise even though his stove damper was shut all the way. He wound up using his gloves to close off the two rear secondary air holes to get it under control again. He did not have a stack damper but this happened only after he had added wood on top of an already well established fire. In this instance I'm sure a stack damper would have helped. I just think it gives you a little more added flame control not to mention better shut down in case of a stack/chimney fire. Only you will know if you "need" one once you get to bonding with the beast. In the manual it states it is not needed unless you have an excessive draft issue of over 0.1 wc.

 

[Highbeam]

The heritage has the same "unless you have an excessive draft issue of over 0.1 wc" quote in it. I have a heritage purring away right now while it is lightly snowing on April 20th in Washington. I am considering a damper even with my 14' chimney because it will give me that much more control to extend burn times and as a safety device in the event of a chimney fire or runaway stove. I have been very happy with the heritgage's low air setting that only lets the stove get to about 450 even with a full load of fuel on a good bed of coals unless I accidently put in a big chunk of fatwood. It doesn't run away but I would like it to be at 350 or 400 all for 6 hours vs. 450-500 for 3 hours. Also to consider is that I want a stove pipe thermometer and if I install it without a damper it will be in the right place, if I then add a damper to my double wall pipe then the thermo probe will be too far from the stove and maybe into the overlap of the telescoping section of pipe.

20-30 feet of good vertical chimney above your mansfield is too much. I think you need a damper in line.

I have found some mediocre craftsmanship in the assembly and even in the iron parts. The stove is really growing on me since I installed it last summer and began 24/7 burning on September 15. Everybody loves it and is impressed with how warm it feels up close. People sit right on the hearth next to it while it hums along at 400.

 

[Heat Miser]

The dealer was able to do the install today. So it's now doing its first burn-in fire. I have two more to go before I can let er' rip. He looked at the install and didn't think I needed a damper. He thought my draft was just "fair" and didn't need the restriction. I will see him again tomorrow though and ask about the damper. I like the idea of the extra control of the draft just in case there is a problem with the stove.

It's a good looking stove. Seems to be more sturdily built than the VC. I'm hoping it heats as good as it looks.

 

[swestall]

You'll love it. I'd install the pipe damper even if you only use it once in a while. When the temps start to go down into the low teens and lower, it will prove usefull on the long burn.
Overall, this is one heck of a stove and when you've had a Defiant, one heck of a relief But, note all the suggestions above; they are on point This stove will take some getting use to; and as you use it you will learn more and more. It will grow on you BIG time.
Definately you are going in a great direction. Give it time as you learn to use it as it is different in many subtle ways.
Best of luck!

 

[Heat Miser]

I completed my three burn-in fires and now have it running full speed. The paint smell is wafting through the house, but is largely cured off now from the stove. It's been running since 11AM this morning. I left the house and returned about five hours later to a small bed of coals. I put in some wood, opened the damper, and 10 minutes later the fire was blazing again. With my catalytic defiant this would have required about 30 minutes of babysitting. Also, the secondary burn system really works well. There is nothing but waves of heat coming out of my chimney. This was a huge improvement over my catalytic which just seemed to get worse and worse or was just fussy about lighting off at all.

So far I'm happy with the stove. We'll have to run it longer before I give it a more thorough review. I did notice inside that the fire cement was applied sloppy between some of the bricks. Seems like they just slapped it on and didn't make any attempts to remove the excess. Otherwise, the stove build quality appears to be better than my VC.

I have put my thermometer on the stove top. What I'm seeing now is even though the damper is about 90% closed the stove still is reading 550 degrees. It just doesn't seem to want to run cooler than that when the wood is burning. Anyone have any ideas? What is a good low-burn temp? I was thinking about 300 degrees based on what the manual said. This is my first official full load of wood (and it's really dry wood!) so maybe it's just running hotter than normal.

I know this is install dependent, but how open do others run the damper for a long clean burn?

 

[mikeathens]

I've only gotten a few burns out of my Masfield, and it was a big surprise how much more heat this thing put out than the Heritage. I'll have to wait until next season to really crank her up since we're hitting 70's during the day and 40's at night. I haven't had a fire going for a week now.

Did you notice some nice black stinky goo running down the rear legs of the stove and puddling on the floor when you had a fire going? Mine leaked for the first couple fires like that and stained my grout.

And I know what you mean about the cement. Mine have a huge gap between the cast frame on the left (1/2") with cement squished in there, and they're tight against the frame on the right side.

But...overall I'm happy with the build. I'm probably the only person that will ever notice the gap(s).

On the quality side, I noticed that this puppy is REALLY responsive to any adjustments with the primary air.

550 is on the upper end of where you should be buring (from what I know). This might be a symptom of too much draft. Your dealer should be a ble to loan you a meter (better yet, have them take a reading). That might be where your pipe damper comes into play...

 

[Highbeam]

I seriously suspect overdrafting if unable to get less than 550 at 90% this time of year. The draft will be even stronger as the outside temps get colder. High burn on the heritage is an allowed maintained 500. Your Mansfield's manual will show its max temp too.

The blocks of stone are not dependent on that cement to actually make a seal. Between the stones is a biscuited steel insert with a gasket cloth wrapper that actually makes the seal. My hearthstone's cement job was very sloppy and excessive. Much of the internal cement swelled up and blistered with heat. Most of that broke off so only the cement between the stones remains.

Oh and be sure to note that due to the slow heating nature of the soapstone you can overheat your stove pipe and chimney long before you overheat the stove when the draft is really humming. The stove pipe is only rated for about 1000 degrees. So just don't walk away with it at wide open draft, I did this over the weekend and got some nice new paint burnoff smell from the pipe even though the stove was only at 300.

For a long clean burn I run the heritage completely shut off after about 20 minutes worth of charring a new full load. The wood is ash and the glass is clean in the morning. Stove temps cruise at 450 before slowly falling off.

 

[Heat Miser]

Did you notice some nice black stinky goo running down the rear legs of the stove and puddling on the floor when you had a fire going? Mine leaked for the first couple fires like that and stained my grout.

I did notice that same thing when I ran the first real fire. It may have been there from the burn-in fires. The stove installer said that was normal. He said the stove should hiss slightly during one of the break-in fires. He said if the stove is "Whistlin' Dixie" though you're running the break-in fires way too hot. It looked like tar-black water and smelled like soot. I'm assuming it was water forced out of the cement and stones. It was nasty stuff and did stain my hearth. It would have been nice to have been warned about that possibility.

And I know what you mean about the cement. Mine have a huge gap between the cast frame on the left (1/2") with cement squished in there, and they're tight against the frame on the right side.

It just looked sloppy for such a nice stove. Why spend so much time making the outside look so good and make the inside look so sloppy? Just my own thoughts.

On the quality side, I noticed that this puppy is REALLY responsive to any adjustments with the primary air.

Yes I liked that. That's a nice change from my old stove which always seemed starved of air.

550 is on the upper end of where you should be buring (from what I know). This might be a symptom of too much draft. Your dealer should be a ble to loan you a meter (better yet, have them take a reading). That might be where your pipe damper comes into play...

I'm thinking it was the wood which was light and dry. I put in some different types of wood and it seemed to calm down. I'm going to play with it some more. I double checked again with the store and they really weren't big on adding a damper to the install. I may override them and put one in anyway just for my own peace of mind.

The good news is I loaded the stove last night and 10 hours later the outside temp was still 200 degrees and had a huge bed of hot coals to re-start in the morning. The house also stayed warmer and my gas backup didn't have to turn on all night. I loaded it up, put the damper to open, and 15 minutes later it was burning hot enough to close the damper and continue on with my day. That's a huge improvement over my old stove.

 

[Heat Miser]

I seriously suspect overdrafting if unable to get less than 550 at 90% this time of year. The draft will be even stronger as the outside temps get colder. High burn on the heritage is an allowed maintained 500. Your Mansfield's manual will show its max temp too.

It's saying 600 is the max. It never went over that temp, but hovered there for a while.

The blocks of stone are not dependent on that cement to actually make a seal. Between the stones is a biscuited steel insert with a gasket cloth wrapper that actually makes the seal. My hearthstone's cement job was very sloppy and excessive. Much of the internal cement swelled up and blistered with heat. Most of that broke off so only the cement between the stones remains.

I see. Perhaps the excess cement is intentional then. I'll see how much breaks off as I use the stove.

Oh and be sure to note that due to the slow heating nature of the soapstone you can overheat your stove pipe and chimney long before you overheat the stove when the draft is really humming. The stove pipe is only rated for about 1000 degrees. So just don't walk away with it at wide open draft, I did this over the weekend and got some nice new paint burnoff smell from the pipe even though the stove was only at 300.

For a long clean burn I run the heritage completely shut off after about 20 minutes worth of charring a new full load. The wood is ash and the glass is clean in the morning. Stove temps cruise at 450 before slowly falling off.

I'm going to order a probe thermometer to watch the flue temps. I've heard others talk about the pipe vs. soapstone temp difference as well. I'll try shutting the damper down more for the longer burns. In my post above I mentioned a 10 hour burn with lots of hot coals left. I spoke to a Mansfield owner yesterday in the store and they were getting 12 hours of embers and 14+ hours of heat. They were very happy with their soapstone stove. It replaced a cast iron stove as well and they said it made a huge difference in how well their home was heated (for the better).

 

[swestall]

In talking to Hearthstone last year we were advised that you could approach 700 and the stove could handle it; but you should not exceed 600 as a practice.
Like we chatted before, get the damper in the pipe so you can control the pull and get your max burn from the wood you use.
And, that smell of the stove curing, that is the smell of sweet success; see ya later VC...................................or maybe never.

 

[Heat Miser]

A few more observations on this new stove:

1) The non-catalytic system really works well. Not only does it produce a nice looking fire, but there is no smoke coming from my chimney at all. Whether I run it full open or damped down all I see are waves of heat coming out. My catalytic system was really touchy by comparison.

2) I may possibly be burning less wood. My initial observations show me loading less wood into the stove to maintain the same temperature as my VC Defiant. I'll have to run a longer test to verify this though.

3) This stove can put out a tremendous amount of heat when I need it too. It is definitely on par with my VC Defiant. The intensity isn't as high (soap stone isn't as intense as the cast iron). In terms of pure heating power over an extended period the Mansfield I think produces a more consistent warmth. I think both stoves have about the same size firebox (3.2 cu. ft.) so this is interesting. I'm thinking the longer duration of heat output instead of the large spike in heat from cast iron is allowing my house to regulate temperature better.

With only about 24 hours on the stove, I'm impressed so far.

 

[Highbeam]

That sounds great1 I'm glad to see another soapstone convert.

Don't forget that the milder temperatures as of late will make most any stove feel like a powerhouse, but a 550-600 degree mansfield is a mjosr heat maker.

One thing that I really like about the soapstone is being able to load it up, give it air, and walk away for 15 minutes or more without worrying about the thing melting down. The slow reaction is great.

 

[Heat Miser]

One thing that I really like about the soapstone is being able to load it up, give it air, and walk away for 15 minutes or more without worrying about the thing melting down. The slow reaction is great.

Well I'm now on 48 hours of burning with the new stove. Been mid 40's here during the day and 30's at night. I can definitely say at this point the stove is working better than my VC. At these temps my upstairs would be a lot cooler than it is right now with my old stove even though they both had about the same firebox size. I am also getting more certain I'm burning less wood in this stove but I'll have to burn it some more to be absolutely sure.

My wife and pets love the new stove. The smooth constant heat is a real plus. I had another 10 hour burn last night. The stove was around 200-250 this morning and the house was still warm. This is a huge deal for me as before my gas stove would kick on by then to provide supplemental heat under my old arrangement.

It took about 20 minutes to get going again this morning on a huge bed of good coals. As you said, I just load up the wood, open the damper and come back to check on it in a few minutes. I would never do that with my old stove. I'd be afraid it would start running away on me.

I think I want to marry this stove. Let's see what happens when the honeymoon ends! It makes me wish we weren't so close to the cold weather ending.