Got a leaf (the car, not from a tree)

[woodgeek]

The backup power options for the leaf look a lot like the Prius and the Volt. Turn car 'on', and pull power off the 12V accessory line. This can either be simple....plug a small inverter into the 12V power outlet (fused at 10A or 120W), or clip a bigger inverter onto the battery under the hood, and get up to 1.7 kW of continuous power, with a higher surge rating due to the 12V battery buffering. Say 1.5 kW continuous and 2 kW surge is completely aok. Of course an inverter that size needs good connections and 100A wiring.

Obviously, the Leaf can only deliver ~20 kWh total, but that could run my fridge, an insert blower, wifi, a couple lights and our small electronics for ~4 days. The plug-in hybrids could go longer (or forever if refueled), but you would have to worry about leaving the whole thing in a garage. Alternatively, every four days I can drive over to the Nissan dealership and pick up another 20 kWh in 30 minutes.

 

[woodgeek]

That's it! I read that too, but it is only in Japan, I do wonder why they don't make it available in the US as well. Then again, such things could shut down the "free to charge" stations in the USA. I could just see folks going to work/whatever and charging the car just to use the power at night and then charge again the next day. If you had a short range to where you were driving it just might work (we use like 16kwh/day so that is well within possibilities for us).

The rub is the battery cost....if the battery is good for 1000 cycles of 20 kWh depth, that is 20,000 kWh. If a replacement battery costs $5k (it may be more currently), that works out to a lifecycle cost of $0.25 per kWh for that 'free' electricity. The 2013 and later Leaf batteries are supposed to have better endurance than the earlier models (yay), but I don't think I will be shuttling a lot of electrons except in an emergency like a long blackout.

 

[mass_burner]

You know there is a company in NH I believe that will install a second battery and a charging port for a Prius hybrid. When you deplete the battery, it goes back to hybrid.

 

[woodgeek]

Why not just get the plug-in Prius from Toyota?

 

[mass_burner]

I already own outright my '04. I would be saving $100/ month on gas. Depends on how much the extra battery installation cost. I don't have any payments now and spend $100/month on gas. My plan was selling the Prius to a family member and using that for the lease cash down. Then my cost would roughly $100/month more at $199/month, minus $100 for gas/month. This would all be business deductible and the depreciation is more attractive for a lease.

 

[woodgeek]

In welcome news, it looks like the 'free 2 years to charge' thingy is back.

http://green.autoblog.com/2014/07/09/nissans-no-charge-to-charge-incentive-for-leaf-sales/

This allows all recent Leaf buyers/lessees to get a single card that talks to the 4 biggest charger networks in the US, and Nissan picks up the bill too. So one card to rule them all, never pay for a charge.

One of the biggest networks, ChargePoint, had threatened to pull out, making the program a lot less attractive. AS of yesterday they are back in. The first cards were supposed to be mailed out July 1.

With a May Purchase, I should be grandfathered, might have to call them to get a card sent. I will still charge mostly at home, but I might now mess around with some other chargers, if they are not charging me $2-5 per charge for $0.50 of juice.

 

[Slow1]

Well, if you happen to be in one of the "select" markets good for you! heh. I don't think it will matter much to me here - we're not in their markets. Even if we were I'm not sure it would be exciting to me as most chargers in my range are free already (and on Chargepoint which I picked up a free card for to boot). Ironically the only charger that has a cost that I may ever use is the one at my place of work! Apparently they felt a need to put a $1/hr charge on the EV parking spots to "encourage people to free up the space for others to us"... Hmm... well, so far I've not actually seen anyone charge and only have heard of one person who tried it just to see how it worked.

Charging is a factor for folks I'm sure. I bought with the plan of charging at home 99% of the time and only treating public chargers as emergency backup. The exception to this being going to the airport - there I am glad they have several chargers (no additional cost over the standard parking cost) so I can go and return with a comfortable margin in range.

 

[woodgeek]

Well, with the MA cash back on EVs, I suspect you will be a Leaf hotspot soon enough. I'm on the Cape now, and have already spotted a black Leaf.

I thought the 'free charging' was nationwide, not only in some regions?

Looks like they have added a few more Chademo stations in NJ, so I might now be able to use my leaf for one of my frequent trips to NYC. Now I've got one 70 highway miles from my house, but close to NYC, and another closer to Philly but 70 miles from NYC. So I could stop at both for 10 minutes.....

 

[Slow1]

Well, I now have a 40amp plug in my garage - time to make a final decision on my EVSE for home, more choices out there than I realized before. At the moment I'm leaning very strong toward just upgrading the default one (via evseupgrade). Seems folks are happy with theirs. Not quite up to full 6kw charging with this option but still much faster than my current home situation.... What did you do Woodgeek?

 

[woodgeek]

Well, I now have a 40amp plug in my garage - time to make a final decision on my EVSE for home, more choices out there than I realized before. At the moment I'm leaning very strong toward just upgrading the default one (via evseupgrade). Seems folks are happy with theirs. Not quite up to full 6kw charging with this option but still much faster than my current home situation.... What did you do Woodgeek?

I went for a 7kW Bosch unit that listed for $500 from amazon. If you want portable, the EVSE upgrade idea seems like a deal. As a leasee, I can't do that.

 

[mass_burner]

Nissan dealer emailed me to ask about the offer they made. I said I am shopping around. He asked what I wanted for terms. I said no more than 1k down and $199/ month for an SL. Decided leather seats were a must. He said he would work on it.

 

[woodgeek]

I'd never get that in PA, but I think you have a shot with the MA incentive.

 

[woodgeek]

One complaint from the wife is the lousy/dark high-beams on the Leaf. The stock ones are 65W halogen, with badly done reflectors. I am looking at a plug and play replacement with 55W HID lamps for ~$90. Should get 3x the lumens, with some loss of focus.

 

[mass_burner]

One complaint from the wife is the lousy/dark high-beams on the Leaf. The stock ones are 65W halogen, with badly done reflectors. I am looking at a plug and play replacement with 55W HID lamps for ~$90. Should get 3x the lumens, with some loss of focus.

wife has her own car, this would be a company car lease.

 

[mass_burner]

I'd never get that in PA, but I think you have a shot with the MA incentive.

sorry, I'm leasing,so no incentive.

 

[woodgeek]

sorry, I'm leasing,so no incentive.

The incentives go to the dealer, and are reflected in your lease rate.

 

[Slow1]

The incentives go to the dealer, and are reflected in your lease rate.

The Mass incentive goes to the owner I believe. IF your lease is at least 3 years you qualify - I don't think dealers have really gotten their heads wrapped around this one.

https://mor-ev.org/

Are leased vehicles eligible for the program?
Leased vehicles are required to have lease terms of at least 36 months to be eligible for the program.

Note that the entire application process is owner/leasee oriented. I could be wrong about rebate being assigned to dealer, but it looks a bit difficult. Unless they say "you owe $2500 in 3 months" or somesuch.

 

[woodgeek]

My 7500 fed rebate went to my dealer, and reduced the amount of my lease by the corresponding amount. Apparently the MA lease is administered differently somehow.

FYI the $2k 200/mo deal for the Model S includes the fed rebate to the dealer.

 

[Slow1]

My 7500 fed rebate went to my dealer, and reduced the amount of my lease by the corresponding amount. Apparently the MA lease is administered differently somehow.

FYI the $2k 200/mo deal for the Model S includes the fed rebate to the dealer.

Yes they are different. Fed is a tax rebate, MA is a rebate administered out of a fund from the DOER - it actually has a limited amount (enough for about 800 rebates), will be interesting to see how fast it is used up, apparently about 10% is reserved as of today. I may be wrong - there may be a way to incorporate it into the leases, just not sure at this point.

 

[woodgeek]

Yes they are different. Fed is a tax rebate, MA is a rebate administered out of a fund from the DOER - it actually has a limited amount (enough for about 800 rebates), will be interesting to see how fast it is used up, apparently about 10% is reserved as of today. I may be wrong - there may be a way to incorporate it into the leases, just not sure at this point.

Don't get me wrong, I love my birthstate, MA, but 800 rebates? Oy. Let's crunch the numbers. In 2013 total US sales for all EVs and Plug-ins were ~100,000. MA has 2% of the US population. If folks there bought such vehicles at the same rate as elsewhere in the US, they would buy 2,000 vehicles a year that are eligible for the MA rebate. So, to get folks to buy more EV/PHVs in MA, they incentivize 40% of expected organic sales in the last year?

I suppose this makes sense if MA folks were not buying thee vehicles at rates anywhere near those of the rest of the country, which would be pretty sad with all the lip service they give to environmentalism. Otherwise, I don't see how the incentive will lead to more sales....the money will go to 40% of folks that would have bought one anyway.

In other EV news....

my niece was all excited that my nephew got his first car, and that he got an 'EV-hybrid'-thing. But he actually got a PZEV subaru impreza. Which is a fine, cheap first car with an upgraded catalytic converter and no hybrid tech whatsoever. As someone who drives a zero emission vehicle, a ZEV, the whole 'partial zero emisson' PZEV emblem on the subarus make me steamed. I don't think my niece is the only one confused....I think folks think these subarus are hybrids or plugins, rather than being conventional cars with below average mpg.

My dad recently rented a ford fusion hybrid, and he and my bro were very impressed. Dad said it was basically silent, instant acceleration and no shifting lurches. Turns out it has a CVT/hybrid drivetrain from the same subcontractor that does the Prius, and Dad had been experiencing electric drive for the first time. He and bro had figured that it was some super luxury car that must cost $50k. I told them it was a $27k MSRP sedan with a Prius drivetrain. The minds were slightly blown.

Dad also reported that the Fusion had an in dash display that told him 'You're getting stressed, maybe you should pull over and get a coffee'. The car does this about every 10 minutes, using a variety of different wordings. He and mom were in stitches about this all the way from the airport.

 

[Slow1]

the money will go to 40% of folks that would have bought one anyway.

Well, I have to say that I bought based on this rebate - had it not happened (as well as the Nissan $3500 incentive) I would have remained on the fence for who knows how long. So in one case here it did make a difference. I also can see where my buying one may increase EV sales as others I've talked to now are getting interested - guess sprinkling them around can help drive acceptance.

 

[woodgeek]

or your friends and neighbors will merely end up 'on the fence' too until the MA incentive gets recharged next year....

 

[Slow1]

or your friends and neighbors will merely end up 'on the fence' too until the MA incentive gets recharged next year....

Ha - perhaps so. However as of now only 10% of that fund has been claimed... They have some time yet. I'm sure others are also eager to see how the car works out long term. That is my only real range anxiety - what range will I have in 2-5 years. Currently range is great for me, but if I lose 20 miles it will not be nearly as useful and that seems likely to happen, just a question of when.

 

[woodgeek]

FWIW, in the MA climate, with a 2013 battery formulation, I am confident that you will do a LOT better with battery life than CA folks with the 2011 battery.

 

[JP11]

Interesting reading here gents.

Installing my 12.2kw PV solar on the 'barn' roof in a few months.

Thinking plug in hybrid for my wife's next car.
I kind of like the idea of that BMW i3. It sure isn't cheap. But I'm 15 miles from town.. so that's 30 to really go anywhere. I think I'll need one of these 'range extender' cars. Which means a volt or i3 at the moment.

Realistically, I'm a year or two out from buying. I think this market segment is going to have many more choices by then.

JP