got to love Mass government??????

[bholler]

Last democratic congress to balance the budget: 1969 (!)

Last republican congress to balance the budget: 2001

Most recent string of balanced budgets: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001.

The magic ticket seems to be having a republic congress (both house and senate) and democratic president (Clinton), causing just the right amount of constipation. For what it’s worth, Clinton also had two years with a democratic congress, and they ran enormous deficits both years (to the tune of $200B/year). Yes, that’s a “B”.

Obama’s deficits were of course the high water mark of all time, being greater than the sum total of 235 years of presidents preceding him, but I’m not going to pretend we can’t top that.

I agree completly when they can work together that is the best

Last democratic congress to balance the budget: 1969 (!)

Last republican congress to balance the budget: 2001

Most recent string of balanced budgets: 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001.

The magic ticket seems to be having a republic congress (both house and senate) and democratic president (Clinton), causing just the right amount of constipation. For what it’s worth, Clinton also had two years with a democratic congress, and they ran enormous deficits both years (to the tune of $200B/year). Yes, that’s a “B”.

Obama’s deficits were of course the high water mark of all time, being greater than the sum total of 235 years of presidents preceding him, but I’m not going to pretend we can’t top that.

i absolutly agree if they work together republican congress with democratic president works best. Unfortunately no one will work together at all so nothing happens. Yes obama added much more but if you sctually look at the percentage of debt added he is behind all bit pne of the last 4 presidents. One of them topped obamas percentage in one term

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Yes and that is all the govts fault. You do realize every generation says stuff like this about the next ones.

Its different now. When i was young i didnt see so many 20 and 30 YR olds and their kids living off the Govt. There are no restrictions anymore and no work requirements for most of this stuff. Disability is the new welfare. My sister is a mail carrier and she tells me households receiving disability checks have been exploding in numbers for years ,many of which are very young people. I recently had an employee (35Yrs old) who thinking he may want to try working for a living,gave up his SSI check. He is now back on it ,finding out getting up in the morning and going to work was too much effort. And of course a disability check is the door way to food stamps and all the other goodies. We are ruining a generation with this crap. Or helping them ruin themselves. It will end someday, and it wont be pretty.

 

[bholler]

Its different now. When i was young i didnt see so many 20 and 30 YR olds and their kids living off the Govt. There are no restrictions anymore and no work requirements for most of this stuff. Disability is the new welfare. My sister is a mail carrier and she tells me households receiving disability checks have been exploding in numbers for years ,many of which are very young people. I recently had an employee (35Yrs old) who thinking he may want to try working for a living,gave up his SSI check. He is now back on it ,finding out getting up in the morning and going to work was too much effort. And of course a disability check is the door way to food stamps and all the other goodies. We are ruining a generation with this crap. Or helping them ruin themselves. It will end someday, and it wont be pretty.

There always have been and always will be freeloaders. That is nothing new. And yes there are restrictions and work requirements. You do realize the majority on assistance are working many either full time or multiple part time jobs yet they are not payed enough to support them selves. Yet no blame is placed on the corporations who wont pay living wages.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

As a property manager im always amazed at the number of people calling who actually work vs who are living off Govt checks. Because i always have to ask about income and sources. Probably 75% of the callers dont work and no one in the family works .I know every town is different but having been in this business for 35 years its been steadily getting worse. Those figures were reversed when i started,and the people not working were mostly because they were retired.

 

[bholler]

As a property manager im always amazed at the number of people calling who actually work vs who are living off Govt checks. Because i always have to ask about income and sources. Probably 75% of the callers dont work and no one in the family works .I know every town is different but having been in this business for 35 years its been steadily getting worse. Those figures were reversed when i started.

And how much of that problem is caused by companies shipping manufacturing jobs over seas? Our area used to have lots of furniture factories. Currently we only have one left the rest which for.the most part were profitable were bought by large corporations just for the name and the factories were shut down and production was moved over seas. That means in the past 12 years our area has lost 9000 manufacturing jobs. And the story is the same in most manufacturing areas. So again who is to blame???

 

[Ashful]

Yet no blame is placed on the corporations who wont pay living wages.

You can’t blame math. Corporations are autonomous mathematic equations, paying exactly what each employee is worth. The good news is that we live in an environment where any individual can change their worth, with some effort.

 

[bholler]

You can’t blame math. Corporations are autonomous mathematic equations, paying exactly what each employee is worth. The good news is that we live in an environment where any individual can change their worth, with some effort.

No not what they are worth. They pay the min they can get away with paying. Worth has nothing at all to do with it.

 

[bholler]

And yes people can change their worth. But that only works when there are higher level jobs available.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Which underscores how important trade issues are to jobs fleeing the country.Cant blame the corporations ,its the govt that makes the rules ,corporations just adjust to them. You can also make your own job in places where few good jobs exist. Theres always a need to fill. Its what i had to do if i wanted to stay here.

 

[begreen]

Some corporations value their employees and pay them well to retain them. Other corps treat their employees like a cheap commodity. For certain that math doesn't work for chief officers pay. CEOs are now often making 10-20 times what their position made 30 yrs ago and sometimes doing no more or less work.

Offshoring jobs has been the biggest issue for labor in this country. The textile industry is a prime example. But the issue is not just corporate globalism. There has also been a systematic dismantling and takeover of most consumer industries by China. Since just the 1990s they have taken over the furniture, electronics, steel industries etc.. The big decline started after they joined the WTO in 2001. We've lost about 5 million manufacturing jobs since then. And then there is automation... This all equates to a lot less jobs for Americans.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

They used to say for every $1 Billion of trade deficit 20000 jobs are lost or transferered to the countries on the surplus side. Given the huge trade deficits we have thats a lot of jobs.

 

[bholler]

Which underscores how important trade issues are to jobs fleeing the country.Cant blame the corporations ,its the govt that makes the rules ,corporations just adjust to them. You can also make your own job in places where few good jobs exist. Theres always a need to fill. Its what i had to do if i wanted to stay here.

Really you think the corporations who fund the politicians have no input on the rules. Really? And yes you can make your own job but if the people in your area have no money to pay you for you service or product what good does that job do

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Really you think the corporations who fund the politicians have no input on the rules. do

Sure they do. Wealthy donors fund most politicians. The job give away in the last 30 years made a lot more wealthy donors. Whats surprising is the last 4 or 5 presidents barely mentioned it. They must have been protecting their wealthy donors!

 

[bholler]

Sure they do. Wealthy donors fund most politicians. The job give away in the last 30 years made a lot more wealthy donors. Whats surprising is the last 4 or 5 presidents barely mentioned it. They must have been protecting their wealthy donors!

I agree completly and citizens united made it worse. Corporations themselves can now make the contributions.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

Really you think the corporations who fund the politicians have no input on the rules. Really? And yes you can make your own job but if the people in your area have no money to pay you for you service or product what good does that job do

been involved with shoes for 45 of my 69 years. Watched an industry die over that time. why, tariff reductions. back in "50-80's the US protected ours and Europe and Far East fought for theirs. We stopped and the Brands went with the tariff less mindset. No matter whether you made the low of low or the best of best. Big winner , the Brand. Consumers paid much the same on both low & high end. Brand went to the bank. Today all that is left are the $500-1000.00 dress guys, high end $300.00+ work, and the almighty cowboy boot guys. Cowboys survived due to fierce loyalty of brand and USA Made.
not meant to go into today's tariff talk. just a fact, as I was involved with lobbying to keep full free and fair trade in those days. We had Kennedy and Kerry's ears because of $$$ and votes.

I would guess alot of the great folks that worked in my factory back then, the high school dropout,HS grads, the underachievers, would today be waiting table or flipping hamburgers. where as our factory was a chance to move on to one of the big guys because there used to be a demand for a leather cutter you could train to cut uppers. Hell the folks that worked in our place could only max at $20-30k/, full med, 2wks after 1 yr, 10Hol., and a turkey?
Corps do have a lot to say and DO.

just an addendum, today in the US there is really only one major heel manufacturer left. Montello
Heel in Brockton. If you wanted to buy his product you can't. If your a customer today, you may not be tomorrow. Why? With the shoes went the tanneries! Montello now subject to 90% foreign supply of sole leather offal

Got to add again. Twin Leather, in same building as Monello , different company.. Twin mfgs. leather washers from the heel offal. Leather water washers are most often used in muni h2o depts. Not sure if he's given up? look up his web site?

 

[begreen]

We have become a service economy.
"In 1990, the manufacturing industry employed more workers than any other sector in 36 states. Today, the picture is totally different: Manufacturing is the dominant industry in only seven states."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...ce-economy-in-one-gif/?utm_term=.af0147ca9b1a

 

[Seasoned Oak]

We cant survive selling each other foreign made goods forever. We have to make as many things as we can here. The people that told us "those job s aint coming back " did a disservice to us. Lots of those jobs can and will come back with a little effort. Im doing my part by drinking as much LOCAL brewed beer as possible.

 

[Doug MacIVER]

We cant survive selling each other foreign made goods forever. We have to make as many things as we can here. The people that told us "those job s aint coming back " did a disservice to us. Lots of those jobs can and will come back with a little effort. Im doing my part by drinking as much LOCAL brewed beer as possible.

We just bought some machinery used for Cabin Brand and as a contract supplier to KIWI. The folks we bought machines from in China next week. Can only hope the work stays. Job moved from Missouri to Mass. Mo min. wage $7.85/ Ma $11.00 and rising! Didn't like new price?

 

[Ashful]

No not what they are worth. They pay the min they can get away with paying.

Then that's what they're worth, for that skill, in that economy, at that time, in that place. Change any one factor, and the equation changes. You may not have control over the economy or the time, but you have complete control over the skill and place.

You sound like the guy complaining that his car didn't fetch enough at auction. What it fetched is the very definition of what it was worth, at that point in time, at that location.

 

[begreen]

What someone is worth and the least you can get away paying that person are not the same thing. There are many factors in that can imbalance that equation at least on the worker's side. The other side of the equation can include outrageous compensations for officers, R&D, marketing, etc..

 

[Doug MacIVER]

What someone is worth and the least you can get away paying that person are not the same thing. There are many factors in that can imbalance that equation at least on the worker's side. The other side of the equation can include outrageous compensations for officers, R&D, marketing, etc..

we are getting borderline here, answer? legislate it or market it? the market has worked in history. the other?

 

[Ashful]

What someone is worth and the least you can get away paying that person are not the same thing. There are many factors in that can imbalance that equation at least on the worker's side. The other side of the equation can include outrageous compensations for officers, R&D, marketing, etc..

“Outrageous” is an opinion, and corporations don’t have “good” or “bad” personality traits.

 

[bholler]

“Outrageous” is an opinion, and corporations don’t have “good” or “bad” personality traits.

Well they are now legally individuals that have a right to express their political opinions so why would they not have personality traits?

And no what you can get away with paying someone is not what they are worth. If you dont see the difference you clearly have never been stuck in a position where you were clearly underpaid.

 

[begreen]

Corporations definitely have personality traits. Compare the attitude of Tesla or Google vs Wells Fargo or Turing Pharmaceuticals.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Thats what i like about being self employed ,Ill decide what im worth. OR the market place will.