Green Mountain 80 vs BK king 40 vs F5200 regency

[Teachme]

Burn Times!!

Let me write your inquiry for you:😄

I am interested in comparable burn time data for "x" model of stove when burning 16" length pieces of oak seasoned and properly measured to a m.c. range of 15-20%, with a fuel loading density of 80%, comprised on a minimum of 5 pieces of oak with cross sectional measurement of 20" each, with no more than 8 pieces to achieve 80% density, burned at a kg/h burn rate of a 1.23 with a chimney system with a total length of 15' and ONLY operated consistently by the same experienced stove operator.

Seriously, far too many variables to get an apples to apples comparison. Don't make me drag out the old numbers versus swoosh discussion.

O my that is extremely technical And detailed
I was just looking more along the lines of real world usage. And to be fair I kind of figured anybody that’s on this website that isn’t saying that they’re complete new probably knows what they’re doing. If you’re that much into wood burning that you’re on here I’m assuming that you’re trying to heat your house. Not just have a fire to look pretty hear and there.

 

[Highbeam]

If you asked that question, or email, to many dealers they would fire you as a customer. Or, blank stare and “do you want fries with that?”

 

[Teachme]

If you asked that question, or email, to many dealers they would fire you as a customer. Or, blank stare and “do you want fries with that?”

Did you really just insult me lol Internet bully lol
Yeah heaven forbidden someone asked the question they actually wanted honest answer call for a company to stand behind their work. I don’t know i stand behind mine maybe you don’t high beam.
In any case I’m not asking a Company I was simply asking for some real life opinions from owners of the stoves i listed and I thank everyone that did that.

 

[webfish]

They can but if run on low it usually isn't a major factor

Run them in reverse and it gets rid of the draft feel and moves the heat to the corners better.

 

[Highbeam]

Did you really just insult me lol Internet bully lol
Yeah heaven forbidden someone asked the question they actually wanted honest answer call for a company to stand behind their work. I don’t know i stand behind mine maybe you don’t high beam.
In any case I’m not asking a Company I was simply asking for some real life opinions from owners of the stoves i listed and I thank everyone that did that.

Didn't insult you, but perhaps some of the dealers. I hate going to a dealership and knowing much much more about the products than the employees. If you come in hot and ask hard questions and demand commitments then you may be more trouble than you're worth as a customer. Especially given the hot market for stoves and the low pay of many salesman. At this level, very few stand behind their work. Just look at all the threads here.

If you can find a good dealer that you trust that would be a great start.

 

[BKVP]

I disagree; if 10 people here give their experience of what a normal burn is, it's pretty clear what a normal burn is. A few will be too short a few will be unexplainably long, but the rest is right on.

My stove (a different one than the OP is asking about), I mostly get 18 hr burns when it's 30 outside (i.e. my heat needs are ...). I can go up to 26-27 without trying too hard (but I don't use it when I need that type of heat, see minisplit+solar). When it's 20 outside, I get 12-14 hr burns. I've never ran the system such that I only get 8 hr burns.

Real life experience will always result in a distribution of numbers, due to the many variables you touch upon. However, that distribution is informative to a prospective user.

My point was, this is not your normal wood burning audience. I can go to Phoenix and get 30 people to tell you a King will burn 50 hours. Not so in Fairbanks, maybe 20+ on low with their fuel.

This forum audience is a group defined by it's members and visitors. If "x" number of folks have a 10 hour burn time on this site, it could be extremely educated and experienced wood burners that know precisely how to manipulate a fuel load to achieve long burn times, keep the glass cleaner and know wood stove tetris, etc. Then there is a much, much smaller subset that may have buyers remorse or technical issues and can say they only get a certain hours of burn time. This subset could also be less informed (that's why they come here)

Look at these forums. There is a very small group of very participatory members (like you and me and others), then there a few folks that join up and participate. You want to know the biggest number? Those folks that read these posts, never participate in any forum discussions but look to get information.

I never said there is no value in opinions, that would be false. But opinions are based upon singular experiences and there are far fewer of those here than in the real world.

When we conducted the 2020 Wood Stove Users Survey, this site produced the greatest number of all online sites in terms of responses, which speaks to it's draw. However, if those thousand plus folks were all participating with posts, that would be super and a much broader representation of wood burners experiences.

 

[stoveliker]

My point was, this is not your normal wood burning audience. I can go to Phoenix and get 30 people to tell you a King will burn 50 hours. Not so in Fairbanks, maybe 20+ on low with their fuel.

This forum audience is a group defined by it's members and visitors. If "x" number of folks have a 10 hour burn time on this site, it could be extremely educated and experienced wood burners that know precisely how to manipulate a fuel load to achieve long burn times, keep the glass cleaner and know wood stove tetris, etc. Then there is a much, much smaller subset that may have buyers remorse or technical issues and can say they only get a certain hours of burn time. This subset could also be less informed (that's why they come here)

Look at these forums. There is a very small group of very participatory members (like you and me and others), then there a few folks that join up and participate. You want to know the biggest number? Those folks that read these posts, never participate in any forum discussions but look to get information.

I never said there is no value in opinions, that would be false. But opinions are based upon singular experiences and there are far fewer of those here than in the real world.

When we conducted the 2020 Wood Stove Users Survey, this site produced the greatest number of all online sites in terms of responses, which speaks to it's draw. However, if those thousand plus folks were all participating with posts, that would be super and a much broader representation of wood burners experiences.

I agree, we are not normal

My point is that especially those on here that are experienced, even if they are able to get the 50 hrs, will be able to give a decent answer to what an expected normal burn time would be (with a proper install, in some climate - folks on here from almost all states; and for some "poor, avg, or great" insulation etc).

If no dealer and not a forum of enthusiasts here can provide an answer as to what is a reasonable expectation (not a quantitative warrantied number...), something is very, very wrong.

 

[Teachme]

That's what the manual says. I don't know what procedure was used compared to today's testing of stoves.

I am Still learning this site and not sure if i can edit after i post in any case its a lot easier to navigate when on a computer then my cell so I apologizes for any writing that i have posted that is a bit miss written.
That being said If my current stove VC 1977 Vigilant Max btu is 50k and a bk 40 is 57k I should in theory at worst still put out more heat then the vc and due to being a larger box and holding more fuel be able to run longer times.

I guess were I really have no experience and what I have 0 exp with is the cat. I burn at most 1500 hrs a year and that's prob a bit more then I do. (id like to do so more as a over night burn would help with that) As I have been cuting and splitting my own wood for the past 2 to 3 years I am just now coming in to a Good amount of good wood. As I can get all the logs I want for free of Great hard wood. I have split close to 10 to 12 cord this year and as such am going to have a surplus as that's the idea each year. When I see video like this That say no water on the out side i start to think they are delicate things that don't last. (also so many places talk about cleaning them in dif ways.)

1. If you treat it well and get 10,000 is that common?
2. After that time if say the world came to a end or cats were no longer made for the stove or for some other reason you could not get the cat but its cold and you need to heat your home can you still do so with a stove like these?

The last few nights have been Cold 0 to 20 that's colder then norm and I have been able to relite with the coals. But i do feel the old Vigilant couldn't go to long with out alot of ash removal. I feel you get worse and worse air flow with ash due to its design.

​

 

[Teachme]

If you can find a good dealer that you trust that would be a great start.

I am trying I have called a number and stopped in on 2. Most around hear will not do instill. The one that dose has not come out and I doubt will till there slow. However they were vary nice! (even give me to compressed wood logs? to try I did try one worked well was still burning next am though not much)

 

[Highbeam]

1. If you treat it well and get 10,000 is that common?
2. After that time if say the world came to a end or cats were no longer made for the stove or for some other reason you could not get the cat but its cold and you need to heat your home can you still do so with a stove like these?

In my BK I have logged the life of several cats and mine all dependably fail at 10-12k hours. Fail hard too.

After that time it is still possible to burn a fire and not freeze to death but it will be polluting the air, gunking up the chimney, and burning way less efficiently. All similar to an old smoke dragon. In an emergency, yes, I would still burn it.

 

[begreen]

Agree but ceiling fans can feel like a draft in heating season.

Run them in reverse in the winter.

 

[BKVP]

Cat's don't have 9 lives and they do become over plated with time. There is one online supplier that had on their site the number of hours of expected cat life. They sell cats. They want to sell lots of cats. Unfortunately, that lifespan is often quoted in many places on the internet. It became some rampant, it became an issue for a primary combustor manufacturer. How far did it go? They no longer sell combustors to that online manufacturer!!

There are lots of folks that have plenty of different experiences with cat life expectancy. Some folks are ultra aware of diminished performance, they replace their cats at that point.

Cats are like tires. They are super duper on day one and less super duper some many days, months or years later (this equates to hours).

My personal experience is I get about 8 years of use (not producing any visible opacity after 20 minutes or so on reloads) out of a cat and which time I then do the deep cleaning method and try to get another season or two.

Our warranty is very clear and I have reinforced it on this site...it is against thermal degradation or (crumbling in ceramic substrates or delamination of the wash coat in the metal based substrates). The warranty does not cover the expectation of combustors becoming less effective over a specific duration of time.

Fairly, as I stated in the first sentence, they do not last forever.

Chris

 

[Teachme]

In my BK I have logged the life of several cats and mine all dependably fail at 10-12k hours. Fail hard too.

After that time it is still possible to burn a fire and not freeze to death but it will be polluting the air, gunking up the chimney, and burning way less efficiently. All similar to an old smoke dragon. In an emergency, yes, I would still burn it.

So after the 10k hrs its basically a old stove? Would my old vc 1977 vigilant be a "old smoke dragon"?

 

[stoveliker]

No,.just as your car is not an old car when you have to replace the oil.

 

[Teachme]

Cat's don't have 9 lives and they do become over plated with time. There is one online supplier that had on their site the number of hours of expected cat life. They sell cats. They want to sell lots of cats. Unfortunately, that lifespan is often quoted in many places on the internet. It became some rampant, it became an issue for a primary combustor manufacturer. How far did it go? They no longer sell combustors to that online manufacturer!!

There are lots of folks that have plenty of different experiences with cat life expectancy. Some folks are ultra aware of diminished performance, they replace their cats at that point.

Cats are like tires. They are super duper on day one and less super duper some many days, months or years later (this equates to hours).

My personal experience is I get about 8 years of use (not producing any visible opacity after 20 minutes or so on reloads) out of a cat and which time I then do the deep cleaning method and try to get another season or two.

Our warranty is very clear and I have reinforced it on this site...it is against thermal degradation or (crumbling in ceramic substrates or delamination of the wash coat in the metal based substrates). The warranty does not cover the expectation of combustors becoming less effective over a specific duration of time.

Fairly, as I stated in the first sentence, they do not last forever.

Chris

Im not sure how cold it Gets there or how much you burn. Do you have a BK 40? How much do you burn?
Thanks for all the info guys!

 

[BKVP]

So after the 10k hrs its basically a old stove? Would my old vc 1977 vigilant be a "old smoke dragon"?

No. A study done by OMNI ENVIRONMENTAL LABS of Portland Oregon, presented as supporting data to eliminate bifurcation standards between technologies, demonstrated 1 gr/h more emissions on combustors up to 9.5 seasons with a minimum of 3 cords per year usage.

 

[BKVP]

Im not sure how cold it Gets there or how much you burn. Do you have a BK 40? How much do you burn?
Thanks for all the info guys!

I do own a KE40. Our lowest temperature this winter was -1F. We get some snow, some still in our parking lot, hasn't snowed in 2 weeks. Lots of freezing rain.

I burn 3-4 cords of mixed fuels each year. Was much more until 2019 when I firred out the 2 x 4 walls of my home, built in 1895. Now 2 x 6 with R34, 5/8" osb, house wrap, new siding, doors and windows. Much tighter.

 

[snobuilder]

I'm in deep chit when they get around to fart emission studies.

 

[Teachme]

No. A study done by OMNI ENVIRONMENTAL LABS of Portland Oregon, presented as supporting data to eliminate bifurcation standards between technologies, demonstrated 1 gr/h more emissions on combustors up to 9.5 seasons with a minimum of 3 cords per year usage.

Sorry but I don't belive I have the relevant back round data to know what that means. Ie. if it means it still burns cleaner then what I have or worse or if it means the stove i have is not a "smoke dragon"

 

[snobuilder]

I do own a KE40. Our lowest temperature this winter was -1F. We get some snow, some still in our parking lot, hasn't snowed in 2 weeks. Lots of freezing rain.

I burn 3-4 cords of mixed fuels each year. Was much more until 2019 when I firred out the 2 x 4 walls of my home, built in 1895. Now 2 x 6 with R34, 5/8" osb, house wrap, new siding, doors and windows. Much tighter.View attachment 291321

Cool backer to look like weathered board.

 

[Teachme]

I do own a KE40. Our lowest temperature this winter was -1F. We get some snow, some still in our parking lot, hasn't snowed in 2 weeks. Lots of freezing rain.

I burn 3-4 cords of mixed fuels each year. Was much more until 2019 when I firred out the 2 x 4 walls of my home, built in 1895. Now 2 x 6 with R34, 5/8" osb, house wrap, new siding, doors and windows. Much tighter.View attachment 291321

Wow that Looks Great! Ty for the pic I did not know Bk could have that much of a fire look to them. We have about 24" of snow atm but it wont stay. and its not norm. You prob are a bit colder there.

 

[Highbeam]

So after the 10k hrs its basically a old stove? Would my old vc 1977 vigilant be a "old smoke dragon"?

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear, after complete cat failure it’s like burning an old smoke dragon which you must realize can be done quite cleanly if you burn it hot enough. Lots of people happy with their smoke dragons. You will want to replace your cat before total failure.

Before total failure, you will lose a lot of the reasons why you want a cat stove such as low output ability while burning clean.

All of those old studies that use “seasons” or “years” are questionable data with questionable conclusions. My year of burning (9 months on low) looks much different than some interior folks and that burn far fewer months at high rates which is much different from the hobby burner that might only light one fire per weekend in December. “Years” is a worthless unit of measurement in this application. It’s just lazy because most stoves don’t have hour meters.

Many users from all brands that have no bias have demonstrated the 10-12k hours of cat life to be a very dependable prediction before unacceptable performance occurs. We would all be happy for longer life. Why not?

 

[bholler]

Wow that Looks Great! Ty for the pic I did not know Bk could have that much of a fire look to them. We have about 24" of snow atm but it wont stay. and its not norm. You prob are a bit colder there.

Yes they absolutely can be turned up and have flames. But if you do that you aren't going to be anywhere near the long burn times the stove can get

 

[bholler]

I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear, after complete cat failure it’s like burning an old smoke dragon which you must realize can be done quite cleanly if you burn it hot enough. Lots of people happy with their smoke dragons. You will want to replace your cat before total failure.

Before total failure, you will lose a lot of the reasons why you want a cat stove such as low output ability while burning clean.

All of those old studies that use “seasons” or “years” are questionable data with questionable conclusions. My year of burning (9 months on low) looks much different than some interior folks and that burn far fewer months at high rates which is much different from the hobby burner that might only light one fire per weekend in December. “Years” is a worthless unit of measurement in this application. It’s just lazy because most stoves don’t have hour meters.

Many users from all brands that have no bias have demonstrated the 10-12k hours of cat life to be a very dependable prediction before unacceptable performance occurs. We would all be happy for longer life. Why not?

I replaced mine in that range as well. It was still working but taking a long time to reach active temp and dropping off early

 

[BKVP]

Cool backer to look like weathered board.

Concrete from Wisconsin! Made by MagraHearth. Non combustible.