I was talking to my neighbor today and she's having foam blown into her walls. She's going to get me the guy's number so I can have him look at my place and give me a quote. One has to start somewhere.
Having foam blown into walls
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newbieinCT
Feeling the Heat
I just moved from NY to CT - so I don't know about the energy rebates available, but you might want to look into it. In CT, it's called EnergizeCT. If you get an energy assessment done on the house (for <$100, they do a bunch of energy upgrades - such as air sealing, energy efficient lighting, door sweeps, etc - and give you energy recommendation). This qualified us for rebates of up to $1.00/sq ft on insualtion. We were also able to finance it through our electric bill - so we are paying it back slowly over 5 years and a low interest rate. I have heard they have something similar in NY - you should definitely look into it. It was huge that we were able to insulate our house so soon after moving in.
As for insulation - we went with cellulose (blown in and dense pack - throughout the attics and exterior walls). We just purchased a 1894 farmhouse (with 1980s additions). The cellulose was messier than blown in fiberglass, but after researching, it was absolutely worth it. I'm not an expert, at all, but I did learn a few very important things I learned while researching all this (and believe me, I drove my husband nuts telling him all about what I learning online) are:
- ABC (Attic, Basement, Center). Insulate in that order. Most heat goes out the attic - so if your walls are insulated, who cares? The heat goes up and out the top. The basement is usually full of holes and gaps - insulate the rim joists and other areas as best you can before moving to the center of the house.
- Air Sealing is also key to effective insulation. Doesn't matter how much insulation you have, if there is cold air coming in and warm air going out.
- Dense packed foam in the walls will, most likely, stay right where it is. Just as someone said above, it takes a while to settle, if at all. I've seen photos of walls opened up after 20-25 years and the cellulose is right where it's supposed to be. Dry Dense pack (not wet) is the way to go to avoid most moisture issues, especially in our area
Our experience w/ whole house insulation:
- I barely remember the beginning of January with the polar vortex. Even with the P61a running, we were SO COLD. Insulation install began end of Jan. -- and little by little, as they worked around the sides of the house, we got warmer and warmer. So far, a great investment.
- We had quotes for cellulose and foam. In the end we went with cellulose. Prices were similar but we were wary of the flamability of the foam along. We are actually in a bit of a "dispute" with our contractors now. We agreed on cellulose in the attics. We discussed blown in fiberglass but didn't ultimately decided on blown in (loose fill) cellulose. Dustier clean up but better in the long run - less air flow through the loose fill cellulose than through the loose fill fiberglass. Contractor insistes he put fiberglass up there - but I have photos and my eyes can see cellulose. He's confused but in the end, we got the best in the attic
- Walls had empty bays, some styrofoam in other bays and then the new addition (from 1980s) had fiberglass batts. All exterior walls were "drill and fill" w/ dense pack cellulose. We had old wiring, as well (not knob and tube). No issues installing over it.
- Foam spray on rim joists and all over our stone foundation basement - it's made a bit improvement.
- "whole house air sealing" - well worth it b/c we didn't have the knowledge on how to get all the gaps and make sure we got everything
Overall, we are very happy with the results. It's only been a few weeks and it has been getting much warmer outside, but there were quite a few days where there were single digit temps and we were inside with only a long sleeve tshirt on. Much different than early January where we had ski caps, layers of socks and sweatshirts on. We were even able to see our breath while sitting on the couch!
Crazy few weeks...but so warm and cozy now :
velvetfoot
Minister of Fire
Try having 14 of them on the shelf and by the time I could get to it they just spewed out stinky liquid.
semipro
Minister of Fire
Just curious. Do the contractors verify that complete filling of the walls using an IR camera or some other method?
From what I've read it may be hard to fill walls without leaving voids depending on how the walls are constructed.
Building Science article on this: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-043-dont-be-dense
Nice graphic showing IR scan at this site: http://www.insulwise.com/insulation/walls/
From what I've read it may be hard to fill walls without leaving voids depending on how the walls are constructed.
Building Science article on this: http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-043-dont-be-dense
Nice graphic showing IR scan at this site: http://www.insulwise.com/insulation/walls/
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
I do my own. Used to cost me about $250 for a small home for materials. now its around $500. Still a good investment.
Got to know what your doing. IF you dont get a good machine or you dont know how to run it you wont get enough pressure and the cellulose will settle.
Impressive Randy, but I would never do it DIY. Apparently there is a BIG operator skill factor....you are essentially filling a complex three dimensional space, blind, by the 'feel' of a big vibrating hose and your imagination. Folks who have done it for a while can do some amazing fill jobs.
I would ask about how long the guy has done densepack.
I would ask about how long the guy has done densepack.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Iv been doing my own rehabs for about 25 years. First few jobs were not great. Id say almost just about anyone could do an attic crawl space ,but filling the walls takes some know how and experience and good equipment.
Did you price out what it would cost for you to do it? Im having my ceiling done between my garage and a bonus room. I really only would have saved about 10% doing it myself. Im sure I would have screwed it up as well not that the contractor cant screw it up.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
Around here contractors were charging $1500 to do it when the materials were about $250 .So thats a lot more than 10% markup. Dont know what they want now, but iv seen some of their work and i do a much better job myself. Its one of those things where mistakes and half measures are not at all obvious to the homeowner.
nick123
Member
Randy I have been looking at doing blown in cellulose little by little myself, but can't find anywhere to rent a decent machine. Where do you rent yours from?
Thanks..nick
Thanks..nick
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
EIther my local ACE hardware store or Home Depot or lowes.
Just make sure the machine is in good condition and is working poroperly. YOU need to pack wall cavities tight to ensure when the cellulose relaxes over time it does not settle. Also i use a 2-2.5" hole. Any small takes too long. You need a good deal of air along with a stream of insulation.
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
I thought there was a special machine that the ones at the big box stores do not have enough pressure?
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
IMPORTANT FOR DIYers TO NOTE
Last time i picked up the machine at my local ACE Store ,the air adjusting plate was missing. THe clerk said he hadnt seen that plate for over a year. Someone brought the machine back without it. I informed him the machine was useless for all but open attic applications and with out that air adjusting plate you could not regulate the amount of insulation going into the hose. This is crucial to blowing walls. The hose will block easily and gives no pressure this way. Walls will be only loosely pack and will settle up to a foot or more.
Apparently no one else noticed a problem and were renting the machine that way for over a year. THer will be a lot of settling in walls around here.
I proceeded to fabricate a new plate from a flat piece of steel 6"by 24" they had in the store. Fit perfectly.
Last time i picked up the machine at my local ACE Store ,the air adjusting plate was missing. THe clerk said he hadnt seen that plate for over a year. Someone brought the machine back without it. I informed him the machine was useless for all but open attic applications and with out that air adjusting plate you could not regulate the amount of insulation going into the hose. This is crucial to blowing walls. The hose will block easily and gives no pressure this way. Walls will be only loosely pack and will settle up to a foot or more.
Apparently no one else noticed a problem and were renting the machine that way for over a year. THer will be a lot of settling in walls around here.
I proceeded to fabricate a new plate from a flat piece of steel 6"by 24" they had in the store. Fit perfectly.
mellow
Resident Stove Connoisseur
One for the memory bank. Thanks.
I can't find a good picture of the rental blowers with the plate, where is it usually located?
I can't find a good picture of the rental blowers with the plate, where is it usually located?
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Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
The one at my local ace store has enough pressure as long as you regulate enough air into the mixture for walls. When the wall is full the hose will expand
and the machine will labor. YOU only need between 3-5 Lbs of pressure to pack a wall properly. My son used it one time without the air regulator plate and all his walls settled, some almost a foot.
THe best setting for this particular machine was about half air and half insulation.
While I am sure Randy is doing a great job, I still think densepack is for pros with pro machines (that run at higher pressure than rentals), and the skill factor for avoiding holes, going around wires, etc.
For loose filling your attic with cellulose, its pretty easy and I am sure any machine would be fine.
IMO, two different animals.
For loose filling your attic with cellulose, its pretty easy and I am sure any machine would be fine.
IMO, two different animals.
jdp1152
Minister of Fire
Foam for roof decks. Dense pack for walls unless you're doing new construction with staggered studs to prevent thermal bridging. Dense pack and a good house wrap and sealed foundation cap are more than sufficient.
Seasoned Oak
Minister of Fire
I agree WG, Walls are a different animal. In my case i was experimenting on rental houses i already own and not hiring out services.
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