Healthcare

mcdougy

Feeling the Heat
Apr 15, 2014
424
ontario
As long as they get the HC which possibly saved their life the system worked. We cant insulate every person in the country from having to pay for HC, sometimes pay a lot. HC is expensive we all have to pay for it. Excuse me for trying to point out the good here and how supremely fortunate we all are to be living under the system we have, with all its flaws . Including those who can only find the bad in it.
The pay alot part can be extinguished with a social system. Everyone pays their fair portion based on income.
Bhollers story of having to fork out close to a third of his household income is horrible imo and I doubt it's all that unusual. Money like that is far better off saved for education funds or paying off existing debt. It may sound utopian to some but social healthcare works. It sounds as if America isn't all that far off of it, if I'm understanding that many 65 and older go on a program that sounds close to a financial worry free system. Not everyone is going to have jobs that can supply private worry free care, there simply isn't enough of those jobs for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

paulnlee

Feeling the Heat
Dec 2, 2018
310
Flemington, NJ
Things get a bit distorted because I was arguing against a view point that our system is far better than any other out there. There is without a doubt allot of good about our medical system and in some ways it is the best. But there are lots of areas mainly in the financial side of things where things could be much better.
So how you would recommend improvement on the financial side?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,477
central pa
So how you would recommend improvement on the financial side?
Get rid of the multiple layers of companies making massive profits between the patient and the doctor.

The only way I know to do that is with a single payer system. But I am open to any other options that would work. But I have yet to hear any. What ideas do you have to improve it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seasoned Oak

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,668
South Puget Sound, WA
I think we are. Those that cant afford it get it free, how much more can be done. You can always
trim around the edges of even a perfect system. And we bring a lot of health problems on ourselves ,cant blame anyone else for that. Covid may take 100000 to 150000 this yr. Cigarettes will take 500000 to 600000 this yr alone. Completely preventable.
Covid will reach those numbers in months. Cigarettes in decades. Covid is exceptionally contagious. Cigarettes are not. It's not the best analogy, a different issue. And folks that can't afford it are not getting it for free. Often they are told to stay at home until it gets serious, then they have to rely on public transport, which often has shut down these days. By then it's too late. If the system was working well we wouldn't have the very high death rate from this disease amongst the poor.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: SpaceBus

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,477
central pa
The pay alot part can be extinguished with a social system. Everyone pays their fair portion based on income.
Bhollers story of having to fork out close to a third of his household income is horrible imo and I doubt it's all that unusual. Money like that is far better off saved for education funds or paying off existing debt. It may sound utopian to some but social healthcare works. It sounds as if America isn't all that far off of it, if I'm understanding that many 65 and older go on a program that sounds close to a financial worry free system. Not everyone is going to have jobs that can supply private worry free care, there simply isn't enough of those jobs for everyone.
Luckily for us she was recruited by her current employer who offers far better medical benifits at a lower price. So we are in a much better spot but there are many still in the situation we were in.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
Covid will reach those numbers in months. Cigarettes in decades.
That was the yearly number. One source put it at 480000 another 600000 per year. Every year. And another 41,000 yr. from second hand smoke. Some big numbers for something thats so easily prevented. But yes it usually takes many yrs start to finish.
The regular flu took 80000 last yr. Many of those did not get vaccinated. Hard to get numbers of the % vac.
. And folks that can't afford it are not getting it for free.
Explain? If not, we are spending a lot of money for medicaid (600B)for just that purpose.
 
Last edited:

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
, if I'm understanding that many 65 and older go on a program that sounds close to a financial worry free system.
From what i hear from friends on Medicare its not exactly a financially worry free system .Lots of additional cost to pay either for insurance to cover your 20% otherwise your paying out of pocket to cover that. Or having deductions from what may be a small SS check making it that much smaller. Im 2 yrs from that so ill be looking into it soon. Possibly why some cant stop working at 65.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Between Medicare and our high option Federal Employees BC, we pay basically nothing except a 5 buck scrip co pay on non generics. Of course the high option BC is 650 a month. We use the heck out of it too. It has eyecare and dental as well.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Covid will reach those numbers in months. Cigarettes in decades. Covid is exceptionally contagious. Cigarettes are not. It's not the best analogy, a different issue. And folks that can't afford it are not getting it for free. Often they are told to stay at home until it gets serious, then they have to rely on public transport, which often has shut down these days. By then it's too late. If the system was working well we wouldn't have the very high death rate from this disease amongst the poor.


Just look at Metro Detroit if you want to see how Covid impacts the poor. Scary situation and it's about to get much worse with the relaxation of social distancing measures and workers going back to work. It's still out there, just waiting for a host.

I understand both sides of the coin. You cannot have any economy with no one working and the government bleeding money like a stuck pig but on the other hand, allowing things to return to 'somewhat normal' will allow people to forget about Covid until it bites them. People today have very short memories.

I see how well 'normalization' is working in South Korea. New infections are going through the roof..

My wife and I will continue to practice social distancing, wear masks and avoid others as much as possible. You never know who is asymptomatic, I don't want Covid, just like I don't want the common flu.

I dread the very thought of expiring with a tube down my throat or surgically implanted in my windpipe, drowning in my own bodily fluids, all alone in some hospital.

All of us expire sometime, life isn't finite but I don't want to go that way.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
That was the yearly number. One source put it at 480000 another 600000 per year. Every year. And another 41,000 yr. from second hand smoke. Some big numbers for something thats so easily prevented. But yes it usually takes many yrs start to finish.
The regular flu took 80000 last yr. Many of those did not get vaccinated. Hard to get numbers of the % vac.

Explain? If not, we are spending a lot of money for medicaid (600B)for just that purpose.

Problem with the influenza vaccine is, it's hit and miss. It's never 100% effective because the flu mutates every year. I have a bad feeling that Covid will do the same. I see it's mutated already into a strain that impacts children.

Heck of a population control agent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
Problem with the influenza vaccine is, it's hit and miss. It's never 100% effective because the flu mutates every year.
Iv had very good luck with the shot for about 15yrs. Although iv had a weird very mild flu like spell that lasted several weeks
in Feb, not normal. Im going to ask to get the antibody test when i get my annual this week. If iv already had this thing it would be a huge load off to know. Would save a lot of stress.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,668
South Puget Sound, WA
My wife and I have only had a flu shot a couple of times in the past decade. Have not had the flu regardless in a very long time. I had some terrible symptoms a couple years ago, constant cough, 2 month old sore throat, mega sneezing that triggered serious nerve pain in my right thigh. Went to a new doc and he took me off the blood pressure meds (valsartan) and put me on something completely different (amlopidine). Within a month all symptoms disappeared and have not returned.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
My wife and I have only had a flu shot a couple of times in the past decade.
You may be taking a huge risk there. Sounds like that last bout could have turned fatal if it was a little worse. 2 months is a long time to suffer. Isn't your Dr recommending the shot? After 60 the regular flu is nothing to mess with.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,212
Downeast Maine
Problem with the influenza vaccine is, it's hit and miss. It's never 100% effective because the flu mutates every year. I have a bad feeling that Covid will do the same. I see it's mutated already into a strain that impacts children.

Heck of a population control agent.
Hardly a population control method. I also find it unlikely it just now started to affect children. This was probably happening the whole time but the data is so incomplete. There are less than six months of study on this novel virus.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,071
Eastern Central PA
Hardly a population control method. I also find it unlikely it just now started to affect children. This was probably happening the whole time but the data is so incomplete. There are less than six months of study on this novel virus.
Even if the shot was only 10% effective id still get it. 10% could be the difference between life and death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SidecarFlip

peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,297
Northern NH
Anyone with kids and child care usually have flu shots as child care centers are generally breeding grounds. Anyone who routinely travels tends to have flu shots. In many cases with the flu, the shot may not be 100% effective but it normally reduces the impact.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,212
Downeast Maine
I'm not advocating against a flu shot. I'm just saying that population control/overpopulation is BS and definitely has nothing to do with healthcare.
 

Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,454
Michigan
My wife has to get the flu shot every year in order to do her job. She can refuse, but then has to wear a mask 100% of the time. She makes sure to get the single dose version so it is Thimerosal free.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,477
central pa
I'm 76, never had a flu shot, never had the flu. Must be either all the supplements I take or the Bud Lite
So no ideas to improve things I take it?
 

johneh

Minister of Fire
Dec 19, 2009
2,785
Eastern Ontario
I'm 76, never had a flu shot, never had the flu. Must be either all the supplements I take or the Bud Lite
I'm 71 Had the shot once doctor insisted. First time and last time I have ever had the flu
But I think it is the single malt snow snake medication I take Keeps it away
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcdougy

Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,454
Michigan
I have a neighbor down the road, an 81 year old farmer. Hasn't been to the Dr. since his physical for the Korean war. Healthy as can be, go figure. He may have all kinds of ailments but they haven't killed him in 81 years so go figure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bholler