Healthcare

mcdougy

Feeling the Heat
Apr 15, 2014
438
ontario
Here is something positive from the hospital my wife works from a couple days ago. at.https://london.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world-first-covid-19-dialysis-treatment-comes-from-canadian-research-team-doctors-say-1.4927659
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,000
South Puget Sound, WA
True, but research is very expensive, with little or no payback unless a cure for something major is found, so most research would be done via private universities. Public healthcare would be better served treating those who truly need it, with proven treatments, not on research.
There are many diseases that we don't have a cure for, but we are getting much closer. Research is how we are get there. The puzzles of cancers, Alzheimers, heart disease, epilepsy, diabetes, etc. are getting solved via step by step by research. In the meantime treatments for some of these issues are almost barbaric. There is lots of payback for coming up with better treatments or cures for these diseases and many more. Often the steps are incremental, but overtime the progress is significant. Just look at what has happened since the human genome project. Yes, private universities do a lot of this research, but often those studies are funded by the NIH or other organizations.

I followed epilepsy research closely for over a decade and at times the leading research was coming out of Australia and then France. The US has also made some great breakthroughs, but one thing I noticed while attending forums and symposiums on this disease was that there was no "we're better than you, or our system is better than yours". All those doctors were dedicated to finding a solution and were generous in sharing information, research and results from nation to nation.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
83,000
South Puget Sound, WA
With a socialistic health care system this type of research would have been deemed too expensive, try looking up who leads the world in medical advancements.
Tried that and found that for medical innovation:
The Global Innovation Index 2019 found that overall, “Switzerland is the world’s most-innovative country followed by Sweden, the United States of America (U.S.), the Netherlands and the United Kingdom (U.K.),” according to a World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO)
 

Sodbuster

Minister of Fire
Sep 22, 2012
1,455
Michigan
There are many diseases that we don't have a cure for, but we are getting much closer. Research is how we are get there. The puzzles of cancers, Alzheimers, heart disease, epilepsy, diabetes, etc. are getting solved via step by step by research. In the meantime treatments for some of these issues are almost barbaric. There is lots of payback for coming up with better treatments or cures for these diseases and many more. Often the steps are incremental, but overtime the progress is significant. Just look at what has happened since the human genome project. Yes, private universities do a lot of this research, but often those studies are funded by the NIH or other organizations.

I followed epilepsy research closely for over a decade and at times the leading research was coming out of Australia and then France. The US has also made some great breakthroughs, but one thing I noticed while attending forums and symposiums on this disease was that there was no "we're better than you, or our system is better than yours". All those doctors were dedicated to finding a solution and we generous in sharing information, research and results from nation to nation.
My daughter (a PICU) nurse noticed that her boyfriend was dropping weight like a stone, and he was not overweight. He was almost always thirsty, and would almost get cranky if he couldn't get a drink of water, he also ate like a horse. She called my wife and my wife advised her to get him in ASAP. He had no access to his Primary Dr. due to COVID, so he had to go to the ER. They ran his blood work and his blood sugar level came back at 450 which is apparently quite high. They immediately put him on some medication and his results are improving every day. Shows you how fast something can creep up on you.
 

mcdougy

Feeling the Heat
Apr 15, 2014
438
ontario
My daughter (a PICU) nurse noticed that her boyfriend was dropping weight like a stone, and he was not overweight. He was almost always thirsty, and would almost get cranky if he couldn't get a drink of water, he also ate like a horse. She called my wife and my wife advised her to get him in ASAP. He had no access to his Primary Dr. due to COVID, so he had to go to the ER. They ran his blood work and his blood sugar level came back at 450 which is apparently quite high. They immediately put him on some medication and his results are improving every day. Shows you how fast something can creep up on you.
Well that's good they might be finding a solution for him. If he requires insulin he might want to come here for our govt negotiated prices. A bottle worth$ 250 in USA is $23 in Canada for the exact same bottle.

 
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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,341
Downeast Maine
Every time I type a response I delete it. All of you saying that government run health care doesn't work have never used it. The US military is almost entire socialist, especially the Healthcare. It absolutely works and almost everyone in the military is fit, healthy, and not suffering from chronic illness.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
4,341
Downeast Maine
This thread: a few men with mediocre health care benefits telling folks with even better benefits how good the mediocre benefits are.
 
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maple1

Minister of Fire
Sep 15, 2011
10,485
Nova Scotia
I would also like to add that we could likely all agree that there probably isn't one perfect system in the world, and they all have things that could use improving in one way or the other. There is always a health care debate here around how we will keep affording it in the future and things that need fixing in the present.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
I would also like to add that we could likely all agree that there probably isn't one perfect system in the world, and they all have things that could use improving in one way or the other. There is always a health care debate here around how we will keep affording it in the future and things that need fixing in the present.
Plus 100 . Too many here who seem to drone on and on about how lousy america does everything. And how great things are in other countries. Be it Cars, Healthcare, Govt Ect .I never understood that mindset,the sport of home team bashing. There is actually a term for that .Oikophobia
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
This thread: a few men with mediocre health care benefits telling folks with even better benefits how good the mediocre benefits are.
So this means that all are quite fortunate. A good problem to have.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
Plus 100 . Too many here who seem to drone on and on about how lousy america does everything. And how great things are in other countries. I never understood that mindset,the sport of home team bashing. There is actually a term for that .Oikophobia
There is nothing wrong with recognizing where we fall short. Acknowledging that we have areas where we need to improve is not saying everything here is lousy.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
So this means that all are quite fortunate. A good problem to have.
Yes we are all quite fortunate unless you are one of the people that is not fortunate. Absolutely there is a much higher percentage of fortunate people here in the us than in many other places. But you really can't say we are all fortunate.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
But you really can't say we are all fortunate.
I think we are. Those that cant afford it get it free, how much more can be done. You can always
trim around the edges of even a perfect system. And we bring a lot of health problems on ourselves ,cant blame anyone else for that. Covid may take 100000 to 150000 this yr. Cigarettes will take 500000 to 600000 this yr alone. Completely preventable.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
I think we are. Those that cant afford it get it free, how much more can be done. You can always
trim around the edges of even a perfect system. And we bring a lot of health problems on ourselves ,cant blame anyone else for that.
Those is the middle are not fortunate. They make to much to get it for free but not enough to afford decent healthcare. Which means if something happens they will be paying for it for a very very long time. Believe me we were there. Making 55 to 60k between the two of us. Paying about 8k for our insurance and then easily paying another 10 to 15k ontop of that out of pocket. That 60k is pretty good for this area. But when you take 20k out of it just for medical care it really isn't much.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
As long as they get the HC which possibly saved their life the system worked. We cant insulate every person in the country from having to pay for HC, sometimes pay a lot. HC is expensive we all have to pay for it. Excuse me for trying to point out the good here and how supremely fortunate we all are to be living under the system we have, with all its flaws . Including those who can only find the bad in it.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
As long as they get the HC which possibly saved their life the system worked. We cant insulate every person in the country from having to pay for HC, sometimes pay a lot. HC is expensive we all have to pay for it. Excuse me for trying to point out the good here and how supremely fortunate we all are to be living under the system we have, with all its flaws . Including those who can only find the bad in it.
I have repeatedly pointed out that our quality of care is fantastic. And that for the many who have access to it without going broke the system works very well. I don't see why you take issue with recognizing the problems and wanting to work on them.
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
Paying about 8k for our insurance and then easily paying another 10 to 15k ontop of that out of pocket. That 60k is pretty good for this area. But when you take 20k out of it just for medical care it really isn't much.
Seems like all your problems are with insurance companies. But also that much out of pocket must be a lot of HC in a single year.
Most likely if you were paying cash you would have been looking at $100000 or more in medical bills. So could have been worse? I didnt have any kind of HC insurance most of my life being self employed and paid in cash (over time).
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
Seems like all your problems are with insurance companies. But also that much out of pocket must be a lot of HC in a single year.
Most likely if you were paying cash you would have been looking at 100000 or more in medical bills. So could have been worse? I didnt have and kind of HC insurance most of my life being self employed and paid in cash (over time).
Well that plan which was about 8k a year had a 2500 per person and 7500 family deductible. One year was our second pregnancy and birth. That triggered my wife' fibromyalgia and she has been trying to control cronic pain ever since. I needed shoulder surgery the next year and knee surgery the next. Add in relatively normal medical care for the kids. $300 a month for Lyrica for my wife and it didn't leave us much to live on. It took us many years to pay off the accumulated debt. So yes I have a problem with insurance companies who we are paying to cover our medical expenses making massive profits and paying out about 12% of what we paid in. Over those 3 years
 

Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
IV always felt Insurance companies should not be allowed anywhere near HC , but that is a whole other subject i guess. One of the problems with ACA is the windfall to insurance companies. All our local hospitals and clinics have been gobbled up by Geisinger seems like they are buying up the whole state.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
IV always felt Insurance companies should not be allowed anywhere near HC , but that is a whole other subject i guess.
I agree which is my whole point here. But the cost of medical care has gone up so drastically it is hard to afford it without decent health insurance.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
Oh i wouldnt try to go it uninsured at my age anymore. I do feel fortunate that the income limits are pretty high with ACA. I certainly could not pay $2400 a month full freight for HC insurance for 2 adults. Id be back to self pay . But it will be Medicare in 2 yrs.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
But the cost of medical care has gone up so drastically it is hard to afford it without decent health insurance.
I remember paying $300 a month for my wife for a good private plan (Geisinger plan)in 2006 which covered all expenses, No copay, no deductibles, for the birth my youngest son,who was a whopping 3lbs at birth and fell to 2lbs 14 oz while in the hospital in an incubater. The hospital also supplied a free lobster dinner for both parents. My have times changed .
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
Oh i wouldnt try to go it uninsured at my age anymore. I do feel fortunate that the income limits are pretty high with ACA. I certainly could not pay $2400 a month full freight for HC insurance for 2 adults. Id be back to self pay . But it will be Medicare in 2 yrs.
Things get a bit distorted because I was arguing against a view point that our system is far better than any other out there. There is without a doubt allot of good about our medical system and in some ways it is the best. But there are lots of areas mainly in the financial side of things where things could be much better.
 
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Seasoned Oak

Minister of Fire
Oct 17, 2008
7,075
Eastern Central PA
Things get a bit distorted because I was arguing against a view point that our system is far better than any other out there.
Dont sweat it , my original comment was not about anyone or anyones particular post but just the overall negative tone in general in the forums. And not just about HC. Also in the discussions about cars and trucks, imports and domestics, govt issues. I guess im an optimist for america, ill root for the home team every time. Not that we are the best at everything ,but we can be when we dont get sidetracked.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
21,592
central pa
Dont sweat it , my original comment was not about anyone or anyones particular post but just the overall negative tone in general in the forums. And not just about HC. Also in the discussions about cars and trucks, imports and domestics, govt issues. I guess im an optimist for america, ill root for the home team every time. Not that we are the best at everything ,but we can be when we dont get sidetracked.
Well said