Healthcare

AlbergSteve

Minister of Fire
Dec 11, 2017
840
n
The reasons are known. CDC budgets cut. CDC pandemic response team cut. Advance CDC epidemiologist in China, cut. Stock piles of masks, ventilators, cut. Just in time supply chains sound good when one wants to maximize efficiency and profit, but that model doesn't fit for health care. The lesson being learned is that we need to take healthcare as seriously as national defense (which has lots of stockpiles of things it will never use).
You forgot lack of leadership and direction. In Canada, if the provinces don't get it right, the federal government steps in. So far the provinces have had excellent medical leadership(looking at you BC) with the full support of their respective governments. You are fortunate that at least at the state level, those officials have been on the ball for the most part. If the feds say it's business as usual, you know, gotta get all those chocolate bunnies sold, the state can tell them to pound sand.
 

WinterinWI

Member
Dec 6, 2018
175
Wisconsin
It's not just the severity. It is the unpreparedness that is concerning. This is compounded by those lowlifes that seek to mine this horrible situation to their own benefit.


Death squads made real. Another reason to have a national health care system.
So you rip the government for being unprepared, being general idiots ect, then go on to advocate for government controlled healthcare...

I get my fill of government efficiency at the DMV.
 

mcdougy

Feeling the Heat
Apr 15, 2014
424
ontario
So you rip the government for being unprepared, being general idiots ect, then go on to advocate for government controlled healthcare...

I get my fill of government efficiency at the DMV.
I hope it will be a case of World healthcare. If trillions can be created, human survival should be addressed on a global level, leaving no man left behind.
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
999
Northern Indiana
I hope it will be a case of World healthcare. If trillions can be created, human survival should be addressed on a global level, leaving no man left behind.
Most People do not have a clue as to why we have the limited beds in our healthcare system.

Medicare and Medicaid (government) have been allowed to dictate payments for so long now hospitals have been forced to lean out. Empty beds cost a lot of money to have equipment and staff for. Our major hospitals run at 80% plus capacity on a normal basis and ICU beds run 90%+ capacity for profitability. Along comes something like this and the beds do not exist, nor do we have the ability to change that quickly.

All this was brought to us by the governments, both local and national, in this country and every other country. Healthcare became a business that was based in profits, not needs.

You’re absolutely blinded and insane if you think the government could take complete control and run healthcare.
 

Sawset

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2015
892
Palmyra, WI
Mod Edit: Tangent moved from the Corona Virus thread

Our major hospitals run at 80% plus capacity on a normal basis and ICU beds run 90%+ capacity for profitability. Along comes something like this and the beds do not exist, nor do we have the ability to change that quickly.
The ability to change quickly is the part that needed to be addressed (hospitals built in 8 days, we looked on in disbelief?). Pandemics to this point have been "over there", so no sense of urgency here. Bet updates to preparedness will be coming in the future.
 
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Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
999
Northern Indiana
The ability to change quickly is the part that needed to be addressed (hospitals built in 8 days, we looked on in disbelief?). Pandemics to this point have been "over there", so no sense of urgency here. Bet updates to preparedness will be coming in the future.
I highly doubt much will be done after this to prepare for the next. This is a numbers and money driven industry. From what I’ve seen in the past well learn lessons on how to react better. But we won’t plan for the future.
 

Sawset

Minister of Fire
Feb 14, 2015
892
Palmyra, WI
This is a numbers and money driven industry.
We had a little clinic down town that tried but closed because the numbers weren't there. I wouldn't expect them or anyone else in the "industry" to build 1300 bed units in 8 days.
If it's to a point of national security, then those involved to that end would be involved.
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
999
Northern Indiana
We had a little clinic down town that tried but closed because the numbers weren't there. I wouldn't expect them or anyone else in the "industry" to build 1300 bed units in 8 days.
If it's to a point of national security, then those involved to that end would be involved.
I’m waiting for the government to deploy the combat support hospital. That would be a quick way to add to our healthcare industry with the active duty military personnel and have the level two trauma center capabilities. They can handle the majority of the day today for larger cities to allow them to focus their facilities on COVID-19
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,668
South Puget Sound, WA
The ability to change quickly is the part that needed to be addressed (hospitals built in 8 days, we looked on in disbelief?). Pandemics to this point have been "over there", so no sense of urgency here. Bet updates to preparedness will be coming in the future.
They are converting a big exhibition hall under Century Link Field into a field hospital. This will not be for Covid-19 patients. Instead it will be for the many patients displaced as our hospitals are turned in to large Covid-19 treatment centers.
 
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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,668
South Puget Sound, WA
I hope it will be a case of World healthcare. If trillions can be created, human survival should be addressed on a global level, leaving no man left behind.
We can and should do better. Healthcare should be a national priority and not a profit center.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,668
South Puget Sound, WA
If you want to see the profit side of healthcare look at the insurance companies. Hospitas don’t make the money, they get by.
Yes, that is part of the ugly picture, but the medical equipment companies are another profit facet along with the drug companies.
On a positive note, this is what can happen when teams work together. Hope Musk gets in touch with Dyson and licenses production.

10 days from design, to review, to approval and an order for 15,000.
 
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CaptSpiff

Feeling the Heat
Jan 13, 2014
481
Long Island, NY
I hope it will be a case of World healthcare. If trillions can be created, human survival should be addressed on a global level, leaving no man left behind.
So do you really believe the US Govt just created $2.2 trillion ?
I see it as borrowed. Just simply added onto the $20+ trillion debt already carried by the US taxpayer.

The numbers are still a bit fuzzy, but with about 330 million US population, that would be about $6,700 borrowed per US person.
I look at that as the avg family will pay $20,000 extra over the next 20 years on their tax bill, plus another $20,000 interest over those 20 years. Were you expecting to be saddled with $40,000 of extra taxes over the next 20 years?

What'll really tip you over is that the total portion of the $1200 cash payment for every taxfiler, plus the $600 per dependent child, is only estimated to cost $330 billion.
That's only 15% of the total $2.2 trillion.
Your Government at work.
 
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NickW

Member
Oct 16, 2019
195
SE WI
So do you really believe the US Govt just created $2.2 trillion ?
I see it as borrowed. Just simply added onto the $20+ trillion debt already carried by the US taxpayer.

The numbers are still a bit fuzzy, but with about 330 million US population, that would be about $6,700 borrowed per US person.
I look at that as the avg family will pay $20,000 extra over the next 20 years on their tax bill, plus another $20,000 interest over those 20 years. Were you expecting to be saddled with $40,000 of extra taxes over the next 20 years?

What'll really tip you over is that the total portion of the $1200 cash payment for every taxfiler, plus the $600 per dependent child, is only estimated to cost $330 billion.
That's only 15% of the total $2.2 trillion.
Your Government at work.
And they should run the healthcare system...?
 

Medic21

Minister of Fire
Feb 26, 2017
999
Northern Indiana
And they should run the healthcare system...?
They basically do now. Drs don’t decide when your hospital stay is over or what treatments you get. Medicare, Medicaid which is the government and now private insurance uses their guidelines and decides what medical care you get.
 
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NickW

Member
Oct 16, 2019
195
SE WI
They basically do now. Drs don’t decide when your hospital stay is over or what treatments you get. Medicare, Medicaid which is the government and now private insurance uses their guidelines and decides what medical care you get.
True to a point... Blew my acl a year and a half ago; called and saw the family doc, sent me to the specialist, who sent me for an MRI and then replaced it. Yes, it needed approval; but in a completely government run operation I'd probably still be waiting for surgery because you can "live" with a blown acl... Maybe that's a little exaggerated, but I believe the private sector can do anything more efficiently than government. I think we have the right idea in this country, it's just poorly executed - too much special interests and pork...
 
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NickW

Member
Oct 16, 2019
195
SE WI
I’ll give you the other side of it. I pick up grandma after being on a ventilator for sepsis and taker back to the nursing home. Then I pick her up 16 hours later and put her back in a ventilator and she goes back into the icu. Difference is the hospital can’t bill because she was admitted again within 24 hours but, the only reason she was discharged was because her ICD code only allowed so many days of admission, not because the dr wanted her to be discharged.

I see this every shift I work.
Agreed! Absolutely terrible! An example of special interests (insurance companies) influencing care instead of need dictating care... Doctors should have absolute control over the needs of patients.

Do we really think the government having full control of healthcare would improve it? (Because it does such a stellar job with everything else they run...)
 

mcdougy

Feeling the Heat
Apr 15, 2014
424
ontario
Ok mercy, there's no hope for the u.s.a because many people have accepted that nothing can be done.......don't forget YOU are supposed to be the government.
 

milothecat

Member
Mar 21, 2017
11
the great white north
I am from the great confederation of Canukistan. I have had two children that were born premature and had to spend time in the nicu. I also have a brother in law that experienced kidney failure and my wife donated her kidney to him. In my experiences with our health care system, the care we experienced was nothing short of stellar. The problem comes when you are not on deaths door and can live with whatever problem you have. Then you wait for diagnostic tests or to see a specialist. I have faith in our system and believe that we will fare better than our neighbors to the south. So to answer your question Medic21, yes I believe that the government can handle the health system. It would be nice to have a hybrid sort of system though as I see it. If you have a non life threatening problem that you want dealt with promptly and you have money to spend to do it, we should be able to. This is not the case unless you want to take a trip south.
 

festerw

Feeling the Heat
Nov 16, 2009
441
Cambridge Springs, PA
The funny thing is that just because you're paying for insurance doesn't mean your getting care quickly either. My Mom had a hip replacement a couple years ago, it took 8 months from the first doctors visit to actually get it done. Including 6 weeks of physical therapy she had to go through because the insurance company wouldn't pay for an MRI until it was done. Oh and the insurance company didn't cover the 2x weekly appointments at $65/visit. After getting the surgery her portion after insurance paid was still $10k.

Peoples health should not be a for profit business.
 
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peakbagger

Minister of Fire
Jul 11, 2008
5,297
Northern NH
Looks like a major thread drift to a very controversial health care subject that is not going to resolved in time to impact the current CV-19 pandemic . IMHO best to split it off into another thread.
 

milothecat

Member
Mar 21, 2017
11
the great white north
Maybe I am ignorant to the way things operate down there. I have heard stories of people needing an MRI or CT scan, not life threatening. Wait for months, get put off or told you will get it in 4 months. Call the nearest center south of the border, make an appointment for a week from now. Make a day trip, get your diagnostic imaging and pay your money. Doctor can now proceed instead of waiting months.
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,158
Southern IN
We can and should do better. Healthcare should be a national priority and not a profit center...It is the unpreparedness that is concerning.
You mean the prime directive shouldn't be capitalism? What are you, some kinda Commie?? ;lol
I'm pretty sure that an investment in some "insurance" i.e. preparation for what was no doubt inevitable (that we would eventually confront something like this) would have cost us a helluva lot less the two friggin' trillion bucks. <> And that's only enough to get us through the first few weeks. Thanks a lot, all you money-grubbing bass terds. ;hm
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
82,668
South Puget Sound, WA
You mean the prime directive shouldn't be capitalism? What are you, some kinda Commie?? ;lol
I'm pretty sure that an investment in some "insurance" i.e. preparation for what was no doubt inevitable (that we would eventually confront something like this) would have cost us a helluva lot less the two friggin' trillion bucks. <> And that's only enough to get us through the first few weeks. Thanks a lot, all you money-grubbing bass terds. ;hm
If I am then so is every other industrialized nation. We stand alone amongst developed countries without national healthcare. This is going to bite a lot of people in the ass as they are laid off and suddenly lose their insurance - in the middle of a health crisis. Feeling great again?
 
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Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,158
Southern IN
If I am then so is every other industrialized nation. We stand alone without national healthcare. This is going to bite a lot of people in the ass as they are suddenly laid off and with it their health care.
I'll offer them this advice; At all times, keep your hands six feet away from your face...even your smilie face. :oops: