Hearthstone Bari - firebox size for overnight fire ?

[RicardoD]

Hello everyone!

I current have a modern looking Wittus Trendline 2 in the middle of my great room and it works great except after 15yrs I have had enough of the tiny firebox and inability for me to get a fire that lasts overnight. By that i mean going to bed at 11pm with the firebox fully loaded and then walking up at 7am with enough hot coals to simply re-load with wood and be on my way again. Instead I walk up with a pile of warm ash and I am basically starting a brand new fire. Yes, I burn overnight at the lowest possible air control setting on the Wittus (slow burn).

I was looking at updating this stove to a Hearthstone Bari with a claimed heat life of 14hour and assurance from my local stove store that I can get an overnight fire but I am suspicious. This thread on this forum wasn't too re-assuring:

New stove operation

Another noob post. I got a new stove installed this fall and it’s been a great addition for some heat. Just want to know how I can be more efficient. One issue I have is I always get it in to “too hot” portion of the thermometer, and i’m not throwing many splits in at all, 2-3. Putting the...

www.hearth.com

The firebox size is 1.25 cu ft (small, and requires vertical log orientation). Anybody have experience with a Bari? Or is it all firebox dependent and should go for a traditional wood stove like the Hearthstone Shelburne at 2 cu ft firebox size? The Bari is obviously the perfect cosmetic replacement and my wife and I really appreciate the design.

 

[begreen]

Your concern is on target. It takes a bit more capacity to have a predictable and repeatable 8 hr burn. Some will say 1.6 cu ft and others will say 2 cu ft. In addition to the wood species, this can be affected by the loading orientation. It's easier to pack a N/S loading stove than an E/W loading stove.

 

[Caw]

I replied to that thread you mentioned but TLDR is I can get an 8 hour burn cycle in my 1.85 cu ft firebox if I stuff it chock full. Sadly there's no way you're going to get anywhere close with only 1.25 cu ft. Id say 4-5 hours is more realistic. Also keep in mind the last couple hours there isn't any real heat being produced, just coals burning down at low temps.

If your goal is to have reliable 8 hour burn cycles I'd suggest getting something at least 2 cu ft or bigger.

 

[RicardoD]

Ouch, this is what I feared and it makes sense. There is no magic physics that will somehow extend the burn time of my current Wittus stove which is maybe a 1.2 cu ft firebox. The Bari Plus has a catalyst but that is not going to double the burn time.

However, when you look at the Bari Plus spec sheet the claim is 14 hours HeatLife (which I am not sure what that means) and look at the footnote " under the right conditions, you will be able to start a new fire with kindling up to the end of the product's HeatLife TM. "

 

[Caw]

I just don't believe you're going to heat 1400 SQ ft with a 35,000 BTU catalytic unit. My 1.85 cu ft unit is rated for 65,000 BTU and is just the right size for my 1700 SQ ft house in my climate. If it was below 10 degrees more often I'd need something bigger.

Again I'm not trying to pee in your Cheerios here. I just think you're going to be much happier with a bigger unit that will meet your needs easily instead of battling the small unit. I know aesthetics sound important to you but at what cost to your sanity and sleep.

Id love to know what "the right conditions" are because that seems like total BS.

 

[Ashful]

If I were looking to stay in a small stove with modern looks, I'd just slam a BK Chinook 20 in there, and enjoy repeated 20-hour (or anything up to it) burn times. Loading a stove every 8 hours is a drag!

Chinook 20.2 - Blaze King

There is a strong European influence in its design from the integrated legs to the large rectangular glass viewing area. The convection deck is standard on the Chinook 20.2. Add the optional dual fan system to further move the super-heated air into your room. The standard ash-drawer opens on...

www.blazeking.com

 

[RicardoD]

I want to thank everyone for their valuable feedback, and through a private conversation I also heard back from an actual Hearthstone Bari Plus owner who states. "On an average evening we will re load the stove at 8-9pm and we will sometimes have some coals in the morning, all depending on how I loaded it, or possibly the draft... the fire box is just too small to try to run it overnight, it’s a great little stove. If you are looking for a overnight stove it is probably best to look elsewhere"

I will investigate other option or just sticking it out with my Wittus Trendline 2 for this season.

 

[begreen]

Ouch, this is what I feared and it makes sense. There is no magic physics that will somehow extend the burn time of my current Wittus stove which is maybe a 1.2 cu ft firebox. The Bari Plus has a catalyst but that is not going to double the burn time.

However, when you look at the Bari Plus spec sheet the claim is 14 hours HeatLife (which I am not sure what that means) and look at the footnote " under the right conditions, you will be able to start a new fire with kindling up to the end of the product's HeatLife TM. "

View attachment 320385

I'd like to see a marketing guy accomplish that. It's hyperbole and strictly marketing.

There is a big difference between the ability to fill a vertically loaded firebox and a horizontal N/S loading, 1.25 cu ft stove like the VC Aspen C3. In a vertically loaded firebox one is lucky to use 50% of the firebox capacity because the logs need to be loaded teepee style, leaning toward the back of the stove.

 

[Ashful]

Upper limit on burn time for even the best and most recent cat stoves, is not much beyond 10 hours per cubic foot. Consider that the upper limit for reliable and repeated burn cycles.

... and as we always remind all new users, more hours doesn't mean more heat. You're loading ~225k BTU/ft3 into a box, and that's a fixed quantity. All you can control is the rate at which it's released, with the goal of matching that average rate to the average heat loss of your house. This is why a cat stove is not always the best choice for those heating larger spaces, or having higher heat losses, as the same can be done with a non-cat... and there are many more non-cat choices on the market.

Any time someone comes along asking about heating a very small space, a cat stove becomes more favorable, because they can burn at a lower rate. This has to do with the temperature required to maintain secondary burn, non-cats requiring 1100F and cats requiring only 500F, typical numbers. By going with a cat stove, you can move to a larger firebox for more reasonable reload cycle times, or more reliable overnight burns. With a non-cat, you may find the stove or loading that does not overheat your space is just too small for overnight or any long burn times.

 

[begreen]

This has to do with the temperature required to maintain secondary burn, non-cats requiring 1100F and cats requiring only 500F, typical numbers.

That is ignition temperature. The cat is likely to go up to 1000-1200º as it eats up the wood smoke. Neither of these temps relates directly to the stove temp which is a lagging indicator.

 

[Ashful]

That is ignition temperature. The cat is likely to go up to 1000-1200º as it eats up the wood smoke. Neither of these temps relates directly to the stove temp which is a lagging indicator.

Yes, of course, ignition temperature, but also a limiting factor in how low you can turn them down after ignition. Cat stoves can indeed run much lower stove temperature, due to the ability to maintain reburn at a lower temperature and rate.

We know many cat stoves run 10 hours per cubic foot, all day everyday. Is there a non-cat that can do this? Low BTU/hr is what it's all about, when trying to heat a small space with a stove having enough firebox to maintain easy overnight burns.

 

[Caw]

Me simple man. Me use tube stove. Unga bunga.

😉

 

[EbS-P]

Me simple man. Me use tube stove. Unga bunga.

😉

Your telling me a princess would not fit??? Or your like me and think I can burn wood cheaper than that??? Simple or cheap?? Are those different??

 

[Ashful]

Very different. I know some cheap people who go way out of their way to save a few dollars.

Princess would be total overkill. There's a limit to how far you can turn these things down, no matter what some think. It's not just a fuel tank with infinite range.

 

[Caw]

For me personally a princess was out of my price range at the time so I didn't bother considering them . I wasn't working when we moved in here. I also have a very oddly shaped fireplace and the Osburn was one of the only models that fit at the time. I think a cat stove would be very good in my house in the future but I also like the simplicity of my tube stove. Both appliances have their benefits and downsides.

 

[Caw]

I think the most important advice Id echo to the OP is having a stove that is too small stinks. It's way more work, frustrating, and almost always disappointing. Don't go crazy, you don't need a BK King in 1000 SQ ft for example, but go bigger than you think you need. If you calculate you need 1.7 I'd happily go 2.0 cu ft. Etc.

 

[RicardoD]

I heard back from Hearthstone directly and they stated:
"The Bari and Bari Plus have the potential to burn for appx 8 hours, depending on draft and wood used. The Bari Plus has a series of thermal mass rings above the firebox that allow it to store residual heat and continue to radiate warmth for a while after the fire has burned out."

Owners of the Bari / Bari Plus love them, they are pricey but have a unique design and many beautiful exterior finish options. I now feel I have accurate information on the performance of this stove and can make an informed purchase (or in my case not to purchase). I hope this helps others who are searching for more info on this stove. I think it is a great stove but it depends upon its intended purpose.

I am in Northern California so I am not fighting sub zero temps, in fact 33F is the lowest I have experienced in years, so running a Blaze King Chinook 20.2 for hours and hours at lower BTU output should work just fine (especially overnight). My current stove according to the EPA database has a range of 11k to 29k BTUs and that works well in my home. Just tired of having to load the thing multiple times per day.

I have an installer coming to my home for an evaluation and total install quote and will make a decision after that is complete. The Chinook 20.2 should fit well in the space available. I appreciate @Ashful recommendation for this stove as this wasn't on my list beforehand.