Hearthstone Heritage LEAKS i think...

[rydaddy]

Hey guys...

Hearthstone Heritage burner on season #4. Over the years I have become a big supporter of these stoves. They are not perfect, but definitely have their place in the hierarchy of "best" stoves out there. And I have had some ups and downs.

My current "down" is that I am fairly certain my stove is "leaking" and I believe it has become more prominent/noticeable over the last couple of days. I have really good draft, and installed a damper at the end of last season with positive results. I am currently cranking at 650-700 on the stove and 700+ on the cast iron "filler" at the top of the stove. Everything is completely shut down. Now, on occasion we all know that our stoves are going to act differently than they do on other days. But this is becoming a habit. And i would love some input on what to try next. I replaced all the gaskets today, and I should add that this is the 4th time it has been done (gaskets) since I bought the stove. The entire door assembly was replaced last fall due to "warpage".

Is there something else I am not looking at that could be my culprit? I know these are scary threads because people will start throwing a lot of different suggestion out there. I am hoping that one of them turns on a "light bulb" and I say... AhAh!


Thanks in advance.

Edit: Stack probe thermo 900 deg.

 

[regalflyer]

Make sure that all the nuts are tight around the bottom of the stove!

 

[rydaddy]

Make sure that all the nuts are tight around the bottom of the stove!

Will certainly do that in the AM. Just checked it out underneath and found 3 on ea. side (ends) of the stove. It appears as though they hold up the ash pan.

 

[regalflyer]

I suspect the pan might be loose - If you are running 900 stack and 650-700 on the top, I would not add any wood tonight - the stone should not see over 600 - Good luck

 

[rydaddy]

I suspect the pan might be loose - If you are running 900 stack and 650-700 on the top, I would not add any wood tonight - the stone should not see over 600 - Good luck

That is why I started asking questions... thanks for wishing me luck. I need it.

 

[edthedawg]

You replaced the gaskets for the 4th time - how's the dollar bill test do all around all 3 doors? You're running really, really hot there - definitely a concern.

In the short term, I would use less wood - if it does continue to overfire (i know - a bad word, but you are there, dude) at least it won't be sustained for a packed fuel run...

How much ash do you keep in the bed? I find w/ a regular packed ash bed, there's no real fire-up associated w/ opening the ash pan door. If you are running w/ ashes perpetually shoveled, then yeah - any ash pan door leaks will be a problem. Do the flames look like they have a really fierce draw on them? If so, is the flame-up localized any one spot in the box?

 

[Todd]

What kind of chimney setup do you have? Is it tall? Do you have a pipe damper?

 

[rydaddy]

You replaced the gaskets for the 4th time - how's the dollar bill test do all around all 3 doors? You're running really, really hot there - definitely a concern.

In the short term, I would use less wood - if it does continue to overfire (i know - a bad word, but you are there, dude) at least it won't be sustained for a packed fuel run...

How much ash do you keep in the bed? I find w/ a regular packed ash bed, there's no real fire-up associated w/ opening the ash pan door. If you are running w/ ashes perpetually shoveled, then yeah - any ash pan door leaks will be a problem. Do the flames look like they have a really fierce draw on them? If so, is the flame-up localized any one spot in the box?

Dollar bill test is good. The amount of ash varies, hadn't thought of that one so thanks. If I am remembering correctly last night I had an average amount of ash when it did this and today was after I had cleaned the stove out etc. So not sure if that helps trouble shoot this or not. On this last one there seemed to be more flame than usual near the glass, not sure if it was just they way the wood was stacked in there, that particular piece of wood? Which sounds ridiculous but I am grasping at straws here. It would lead one to believe that there was a door gasket issue. But I am pretty certain that with the new changes etc. it was not. I was not planning on changing the gaskets this season until this new issue arose.

 

[rydaddy]

What kind of chimney setup do you have? Is it tall? Do you have a pipe damper?

25' SS chimney liner, w/damper. In the middle of the house, inside the chimney for my old fireplace.

 

[badger1968]

Is your glass "dirty?" When I suspected a leak in my Homestead, this was the first question a professional (who I really respect) asked. In my case the answer was no--and this gentleman told me if the glass wasn't dirty, he doubted it was a leak. He was right, I didn't have a leak. Now, you've been burning your Heritage for four years so you've seen some ups and downs . . . but maybe this will help. Good luck.

 

[ddown]

If you have a stick of incense light it and go around doors, ashpan, bottom of stove smoke will suck in where ever there is a leak. I had a stubborn leak and this helped me find it fast. I wouldn't expect draft problem four years on same Chimney. Let us know what you find<please> Sorry Clicked twice I think

 

[ddown]

If you have a stick of incense light it and go around doors, ashpan, bottom of stove smoke will suck in where ever there is a leak. I had a stubborn leak and this helped me find it fast. I wouldn't expect draft problem four years on same Chimney. Let us know what you find.

 

[Highbeam]

I like ddown's suggestion of searching for an air leak with incense. I will do this if I suspect a leak.

When you have a ripping fire and everything is shut down, fresh load of wood, do you notice any jets of flame or unusual air currents inside the firebox? I have had leaks in the secondary air system that resulted in a jet of air being introduced to the firewood load and the jet of fresh air was very noticable. Look for these jets of flame from the rectangular riser tube on teh back wall and from the bottom of the cast iron secondary manifold. Black as needed with rutland black furnace cement.

When the primary air is shut off there should be very little flames on the wood at all. Just the smoke burning like mad on the baffle.

Does your primary air control feel responsive like it is working properly? You're sending a lot of heat up the flue to get 900 degree temps up there. Somehow air is getting into your stove.

Smoke free chimney correct?

What type of wood and how big are the splits? Dryness? Is it rocketfuel or fatwood?

 

[rydaddy]

Is your glass "dirty?" When I suspected a leak in my Homestead, this was the first question a professional (who I really respect) asked. In my case the answer was no--and this gentleman told me if the glass wasn't dirty, he doubted it was a leak. He was right, I didn't have a leak. Now, you've been burning your Heritage for four years so you've seen some ups and downs . . . but maybe this will help. Good luck.

In general it goes through cycles where it (the glass, or portions of it) are darn near black. Then it cleans itself off and then for the duration (until I clean it again, which isn't often) the bottom half of the glass is at best a "haze." I think the black areas are based on where the wood is at and often when it is really black in spots there is wood right up against it.

 

[rydaddy]

I like ddown's suggestion of searching for an air leak with incense. I will do this if I suspect a leak.

When you have a ripping fire and everything is shut down, fresh load of wood, do you notice any jets of flame or unusual air currents inside the firebox? I have had leaks in the secondary air system that resulted in a jet of air being introduced to the firewood load and the jet of fresh air was very noticable. Look for these jets of flame from the rectangular riser tube on teh back wall and from the bottom of the cast iron secondary manifold. Black as needed with rutland black furnace cement.

When the primary air is shut off there should be very little flames on the wood at all. Just the smoke burning like mad on the baffle.

Does your primary air control feel responsive like it is working properly? You're sending a lot of heat up the flue to get 900 degree temps up there. Somehow air is getting into your stove.

Smoke free chimney correct?

What type of wood and how big are the splits? Dryness? Is it rocketfuel or fatwood?

Highbeam, you are pretty much asking the same questions and giving the same advice that I would be giving someone else had they asked the question. We are definitely on the same page. Yes on the smoke-free chimney, good question. Air control is responsive. The fire while I type this is in the 350 range on the top stone, and there is almost no visible flame... which we know is expected. So, I will more closely check for specific flames next time I have a fire. Well seasoned maple, cherry, elm. And okay seasoned ash. Various size splits, this fire from this afternoon was smaller splits, last nights was 4 splits and it was pretty packed/tight.

 

[rydaddy]

If you have a stick of incense light it and go around doors, ashpan, bottom of stove smoke will suck in where ever there is a leak. I had a stubborn leak and this helped me find it fast. I wouldn't expect draft problem four years on same Chimney. Let us know what you find.

I tried this with a match and had varying results. I plan to get some incense tomorrow and try it.

 

[edthedawg]

Yeah you need to get something w/ some sustained smoke, that won't smoke up your house. This is a puzzler - overfire w/ average wood & chimney... have you confirmed the baffle is intact and in the right spot? flames not shooting past it?

 

[rydaddy]

Yeah you need to get something w/ some sustained smoke, that won't smoke up your house. This is a puzzler - overfire w/ average wood & chimney... have you confirmed the baffle is intact and in the right spot? flames not shooting past it?

Secondary burn is working. Girlfriend is not excited about the incense, nor am I... but it seems a decent option for testing. As a side note, when I bought the stove the dealer installed as well. I asked about a damper and they said I didn't need one, and shouldn't use one. I added one at the end of last season in an effort to increase "burn-time," but I think it has done more to control temps than anything else. I'm also not bashing the dealer at all. My contacts there are helpful, knowledgeable, and helped with a warranty claim in the fall of '07. They are defintely against dampers.

I will start dreaming of a pleasant, easy to use, smoke maker for testing "leaks"

 

[regalflyer]

I see 900 degrees in the stack almost every time a new load is done charring. I read about 300 degrees on the stove top at that point until I can shut the primary down completely. After the secondaries are going well the stack usually runs at about 550-600 until most of the gases are consumed, then starts to fall. The stove top is normally about 400 on the center tile during this period of the burn. Glass is always clean, never cleaned it. Sometimes it will get to 450 stove top, but thats the highest I have ever seen it. My dealer also said " no damper", but I routinely run > .14 WC draft, with 3 hour burns. I hope to get this increased with the damper.

 

[Todd]

Could be the thermometer is off. I've seen Rutland's read 150 on the high side. Test it in oven.

 

[regalflyer]

Good idea to test, but the instruments I am using are not the normal wood stove shop variety. They come from a Bacharach combustion efficiency kit - accurate but very expensive. I am quite certain of the numbers they indicate. I watch the stove cruise along at 400 degrees top tile and 550 - 600+ stack. The draft is just pulling too much heat out of the stove - hope to have it corrected by next week. If I cannot tame the burning cycle with a damper, I may switch to a cat type stove. I may switch anyway. I am more interested in long steady controlled output than peaky hot burns.

 

[rydaddy]

I see 900 degrees in the stack almost every time a new load is done charring. I read about 300 degrees on the stove top at that point until I can shut the primary down completely. After the secondaries are going well the stack usually runs at about 550-600 until most of the gases are consumed, then starts to fall. The stove top is normally about 400 on the center tile during this period of the burn. Glass is always clean, never cleaned it. Sometimes it will get to 450 stove top, but thats the highest I have ever seen it. My dealer also said " no damper", but I routinely run > .14 WC draft, with 3 hour burns. I hope to get this increased with the damper.

That is awesome that your glass is always clean. I think you will find that the damper will definitely help, but don't be surprised if your glass suffers a little bit.

 

[rydaddy]

Good idea to test, but the instruments I am using are not the normal wood stove shop variety. They come from a Bacharach combustion efficiency kit - accurate but very expensive. I am quite certain of the numbers they indicate. I watch the stove cruise along at 400 degrees top tile and 550 - 600+ stack. The draft is just pulling too much heat out of the stove - hope to have it corrected by next week. If I cannot tame the burning cycle with a damper, I may switch to a cat type stove. I may switch anyway. I am more interested in long steady controlled output than peaky hot burns.

Also, for what it is worth. Before I had the damper, I could get the top stone and the top of the cast filler both to 500-550 without any problems. And could take the cast even farther when hot. And my dealers also warned against the use of dampers. Must be a standard that they go by.

 

[Todd]

Good idea to test, but the instruments I am using are not the normal wood stove shop variety. They come from a Bacharach combustion efficiency kit - accurate but very expensive. I am quite certain of the numbers they indicate. I watch the stove cruise along at 400 degrees top tile and 550 - 600+ stack. The draft is just pulling too much heat out of the stove - hope to have it corrected by next week. If I cannot tame the burning cycle with a damper, I may switch to a cat type stove. I may switch anyway. I am more interested in long steady controlled output than peaky hot burns.

My test idea wasn't directed at you, it was for the OP, it was for rydaddy. Isn't he the one with the possible overfire?

 

[rydaddy]

Thanks for all the input you have been giving me guys. No MAGIC find yet as to a miraculous air leak. Ad dumb as this sounds, it might be easier to find if was firing even hotter. I know, careful what we wish for. Anyway... I made another fire this AM and kept it smaller than usual. While it had them (flames), I was trying to pay close attention to fire patterns etc. Not sure If I am seeing leaks or just paying such close attention that I am "wanting" to find something that is not there. Will continue this same research at the next re-load.

Thanks!