Hearthstone in fireplace install questions

[jadm]

Changing direction after reading and viewing a lot of input on this site. Seems like what I'm reading is that stoves give off more heat than inserts - which is what I have now. On cold days -20's - my insert keeps room at 68-70 degrees but I can't seem to burn up all the coals and have to empty out some to add wood to keep heat up. When it's in the 40's it does better and the coals do burn better.

I'm also frustrated with the blower since it is mounted on the back and very hard to clean. It broke and had to be replaced after 1 season of burning....

Seems like a stove is less hassle.

Anybody out there who has switched from insert to stove mounted on fireplace? What has been your experience/satisfaction with the change? Or dissatisfaction...

Considering Hearthstone Phoenix because of it's size. Don't want unit that will totally dominate the room and the room isn't that big -11x14. Also like how it looks and I have found a knowledgeable dealer close by and they use my chimney sweeps as installers and I love my chimney sweeps because they know what they are doing - a fireman and his son.

Am leaning towards soapstone due to how it holds the heat - I am home all day and want more consistent heat.

Have read reviews posted but all seem from people who have just installed. Looking for input from people who have been using one for several years to see how they are feeling about their choice currently.

 

[swestall]

It sounds like you know what to do, trust your gut. The stand alone wood stove is better hands up; even though there is nothing wrong with inserts.
The soap stone is different; I've decided I like it and just went out and got one.
You'll have to wait about a month to hear how my acutal experience is. Look at Woodstock and Hearthsone when making a decision. I went with Hearthstone Mansfield, mostly for the BTU's, but the style is nice too.

 

[DriftWood]

I am not sure you have a secondary stove/ insert now This video will set you straight on the handling of a secondard burn tube stove.

This video helps.

http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/default.asp?lang=En&n=8011CD70-1

 

[colsmith]

We have had our Phoenix for two years as of next month. We are quite fond of it. We were considering the Hearthstone Heritage initially, about the same price, but it has more soapstone (Phoenix is just sides and top.) The hybrid nature of the Phoenix (some cast iron) seems to give it the best of both worlds, heats up the place faster than total soapstone, but retains heat for a long, long time. We never get an 8 hour burn, but attribute that to a very strong draft. The Heritage is supposed to have a longer burn time I believe, but we found the design to be inferior to the Phoenix. We have about a 2000 sq ft house, no blower or anything. Existing layout just happened to work well with where we put the stove, to spread the heat around to most of the house. We heat our house with just the woodstove when it is 20 F or above. Much below that and we let the furnace help a little. We like the nice viewing window, which is truly self-cleaning most of the time. We burn 24/7 except days like this that are 60 F, which is bizarre in WI for January. At least hubby reports this to me, I am in FL this week. (Yes, I stacked lots of wood on the porch for him before I left, you know how men can't handle this wood stuff. ;-) )

 

[jadm]

So you like stacking wood too. My kids and husband sure don't but I like the idea that it has a clear beginning, middle and end. I can see where I have actually accomplished something!! ( My children are still a work in progress.)

Nice to know you have had your Phoenix for a couple of years and are happy with it. Do you have any trouble with the damper control? When I looked at one in the store I was surprised that it had so little movement to allow are flow. My current insert has 4-5in. of adjustment to it.

Any trouble with the ash tray and emptying the ashes out?

How hot do you run your stove and where do you place your thermometer?

How well does it burn coals down and still maintain room temp. on cold days? (20's or below)

How does it handle wood that isn't totally dry? (My wood is usually pretty good but this year the outfit I order from delivered green wood and assured me it would be okay by winter. I am pretty new at this and I believed them but have found that it isn't burning as hot as when it is dry but otherwise in the unit I currently have it hasn't caused a real problem for me. Glass stays clean and my chimney hasn't been gooped up by it. I've read where other stoves really baulk at unseasoned wood.)

Do you burn oak? When I burn red oak it really heats up my stove -550's external temp-. I love the heat but have read that the soapstone stoves shouldn't be taken up that hot.

Well, there are just a few questions I have for you....Thanks for your input.

 

[DriftWood]

I have got to get my wife to read this post. maybe I should complain more about moving wood. It would not help, but who knows.

 

[Hokerer]

Nice to know you have had your Phoenix for a couple of years and are happy with it.

Not who you were originally responding to but we've been burning our Phoenix since 1999

Do you have any trouble with the damper control? When I looked at one in the store I was surprised that it had so little movement to allow are flow. My current insert has 4-5in. of adjustment to it.

The distance of travel of the damper has never been a problem. The only complaint I have (and it's the only complaint I have at all about this stove) is the way the damper mechanism works. Rotating the handle at the front causes the damper at the back to slide back and forth. Over the years, it's required a fair amount of force to operate to the point that I had to keep re-tightening the set screw that holds the front handle. For the past couple of years, I've just given up on that and used two hands to operate the damper - right hand on the front handle and left at the back pushing or pulling to close/open. Works great!

Any trouble with the ash tray and emptying the ashes out?

I've actually only used the ash tray once. It didn't seem to buy me anything over just shoveling them out the main door so that's what I've done ever since.

How hot do you run your stove and where do you place your thermometer?

I've never used a thermometer - just run it by the seat of my pants.

How well does it burn coals down and still maintain room temp. on cold days? (20's or below)

It almost always burns all coals completely down to ash. As for room temp, my wife was giving me a hard time the other day as the stove was keeping the house (stove downstairs, thermostat upstairs) four degrees above what the thermostat was set for during the night with outside temps in the teens so the heat pump never kicked on.

How does it handle wood that isn't totally dry? (My wood is usually pretty good but this year the outfit I order from delivered green wood and assured me it would be okay by winter. I am pretty new at this and I believed them but have found that it isn't burning as hot as when it is dry but otherwise in the unit I currently have it hasn't caused a real problem for me. Glass stays clean and my chimney hasn't been gooped up by it. I've read where other stoves really baulk at unseasoned wood.)

Wood that isn't dry might sizzle a little at the beginning of the burn, but after that, it handles it just like well seasoned wood.

Do you burn oak? When I burn red oak it really heats up my stove -550's external temp-. I love the heat but have read that the soapstone stoves shouldn't be taken up that hot.

Again, I don't have a thermometer so I don't know but yes, we burn plenty of dry oak - never had a problem with overfiring the stove.

 

[jadm]

Thank-you Hokerer for answering all of my questions. How do you pull my questions down individually into the reply box? It really makes tracking answers a whole lot easier to read.

Anybody know if Hearthstone stoves ever go on sale? Since I already have an insert now I have time to burn....Couldn't resist that one Basically I don't have to rush out and get a stove today. In fact now that I have pretty much made up my mind as to what I want to do I'm experiencing pre-buyers jitters. Human brains certainly have a life of their own! Like buyers remorse I'm sure it will pass in time.

 

[bokehman]

Running a stove/insert with wood that is not properly seasoned is a common cause of excessive coal bed build up.

Have you considered a CAT stove? (More efficient/longer burn times).

 

[jadm]

Some of my wood this winter isn't well seasoned. These past couple of days here have been warmer and the coals haven't been as much as an issue. I am reminded once again that the insert I have now struggles in colder temps - below 30 but does okay once it is up to temp. on milder days.

Yes, I did consider a CAT stove but the Hearthstone Phoenix keeps coming up as my first pick based on all the reading I have done to date.

Choices, choices, choices

 

[bokehman]

Don't want unit that will totally dominate the room and the room isn't that big -11x14.

The Heritage is 1" taller and wider, but less deep by 3". (29.5" tall, 29" wide, 21.5" deep). Also the Phoenix needs 11" more rear clearance. When you add that up it means the Heritage is a whole 14" less imposing. The Heritage firebox is slightly larger than the Phoenix's and price is similar. The Woodstock CAT stoves are a similar size (and price) but need even more rear clearance.

 

[jadm]

Bokehman - Thanks for the input. I got hooked on the Phoenix and had only seriously considered it and the Homestead due to size and hadn't considered the Heritage because when I looked at the units in the store it looked bigger . I didn't compare the stats until I read what you wrote so now I guess I'll have to read up on how people like/dislike the Heritage model...another topic!! I'm quickly finding out how one thing leads to another here!

Why does the Phoenix require more rear clearance space? I do have the rear clearance space in my fireplace which is 19'' deep and lined with fire brick. My clearance issue is in the front which can be handled with a fire resistant rug.

My chimney sweep checked things out yesterday and said all looked okay for an install. Would have to take out damper shelf and some bricks to avoid more bends in the liner which should have been done with the insert that I have in now. When it was installed I knew absolutely nothing. Now I know a bit more and keep learning.

I'll have to go back to the store and look at the Heritage again. Again, why are the clearances different on these 2 stoves??? How do they determine these figures? I can see what you mean in the catalogue I have here which I didn't check for the Heritage and now that I do all of it's clearances are smaller...I don't get it.

Confused again!!

 

[begreen]

EDIT: merged threads. Same question being posted in multiple places makes too much work to answer.

Just when I think I have the cat in the bag something new pops up.

Someone responded to my Phoenix topic pointing out that the Hearthstone Heritage would be a better fit and less imposing in the space I have to put the stove due to it’s clearance requirements. I hadn’t even checked it’s specs because when I saw both the stoves in the store it looked bigger than the Phoenix. I had only been considering the Homestead and the Phoenix at that time and am still leaning towards the Phoenix because of it’s looks and with the Heritage I simply don’t need that extra door and wouldn’t be able to use it anyway because it would be partially in the fireplace.

So why, now that I have looked at the specs, are the Heritage’s so much different??? How do they figure these numbers out in the first place. I know there is probably an article out there someplace!

If they are being installed into a fireplace why is there a difference in the rear clearance space? My fireplace is lined with fire brick and more regular brick behind that. I figured clearances had to do with how close combustibles could be.

My sweep, who is also a fireman and has been for about 30 years, looked at my set up yesterday and said it looked like an install with a Phoenix would be just fine. He also said that the clearance in the front, which is where I am short, could be handled with a fire resistant rug. My fireplace sits 15’’ above my floor and was planning to just knock out some of the hardwood that surrounds it and lay some tile there to meet the requirements. He was the one to suggest the rug.

Anyway, I’d appreciate any info out there about clearance figures.

A side bar here. The computer I use is my husbands and he is heading out of town for a few days and taking it with him so I won’t be able to read responds for awhile but will get to them as soon as he returns.

Thanks ahead of time!!

 

[begreen]

The stove's clearances for non-fireplace installations are what is given in the manual. A full masonry fireplace is a different situation and the clearances to combustibles do not apply. As noted in the other thread, a fireproofed rug is not a substitute for a proper hearth. If this is a critical issue, it is usually not a big deal to extend the hearth at floor level with a tiled or stone border. Done right, it looks great.

The main thing to check is - will the stove fit, is there room to actually install the stove and block off plate and then connect the stove and if there is a wood or combustible mantle? If there is, are the clearances from the stove top to the mantle safe?

 

[jadm]

Thanks BeGreen for editing my pieces together. Didn't realize I could do that and even I was getting confused with my own entries.

All clearances are okay. The only sticky one was in front of the door. Yes, tile there is no big problem to do as I already have tile left over from our kitchen floor and it will match our existing brick really well.

Again I ask what is the deal with the rear clearance? Reflected heat onto back of stove too much? This will be a fireplace install so heat will reflect back onto it.

 

[DriftWood]

Anybody know if Hearthstone stoves ever go on sale?

Some Hearthstone dealers discount stoves every day . I know one member who called all the dealers in a decent driving distance and saved $600.00USD in prime stove season the fall. Deals can be made on Demos, stoves on ebaY, in the local paper and craigslist to name a few. Decide the stove you want then start shopping all the above.

 

[jadm]

Have been reading more here. (Husband hasn't left town yet.) Read a topic by someone else who lives in Colorado who recommends no bends in flues due to altitude. I am in Denver and wonder if that applies to me too? (Other person lives in mountains at 9000 ft.)

I currently have a Napoleon 1101 insert and the flex liner does have a bend in it in order to make it thru the damper space. I have not had problems with this insert with draft and just assumed that replacing it with a stove wouldn't create draft problems. Is that true or will a Hearthstone Phoenix have problems at this altitude with a bend in the pipe???

I keep leaning towards the Phoenix because it is part cast iron and I'm hoping that will decrease the time it takes to start radiating the heat into our house and then the soapstone will maintain a more even temp than what I get now with our Napoleon. ( It heats up quickly but temps drop after primary burn. On 40 degree days it will stay at about 300-400 for quite awhile but on days below 40 degrees temp drops faster and household temps drop too. Burn times shorten dramatically and I get the coal build up...)

 

[DriftWood]

You should contact MountainStoveGuy he lives near you in Allenspark Colorado, 8600 feet, He heats with Hearthstone Mansfield. He sold wood stoves in Boulder at one time and knows his stuff on Mile and a Half Hi wood stove heating. Email or PM him your questions he is a pro in Solar (photovoltaic) and wind turbines now.

 

[jadm]

Computer is back.

Thanks DriftWood for input. I tried emailing MSGuy last night and I will see what happens. What does PM stand for and how do you do it???

 

[DriftWood]

How do I send a PM- private message

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/13852/

 

[pinewoodburner]

Installing one in frort of a brick fireplace is different that installing on near a regular door. I am looking at installing a stove in the front of one of my 2 fireplaces and since mine is a masonary fireplace, that is not a conbustible. You do have to look at the trim and mantel if you have one.

 

[bcnu]

I took out an old insert, removed the raised hearth and put in a HS Homestead. The back legs are flush with the fireplace opening. Because of the wood mantle we wanted to use we ended up with the metal surround and top heat shield. This was my first experience with wood and I definitely had a lot to learn. However, after 4 months I can say I'm extremely happy with the stove. It really began to shine when the colder weather set in and I was burning hotter fires most of the time. Our coldest, so far, has been 20 and the stove has kept us at 72-75. The dry seasoned oak also made a difference in how the stove responded. I started out burning a lot of my smaller stuff that probably wasn't always as dry as it should have been. Right now it's 36 with just a dusting of snow. I just put two medium size splits in the stove and am into the secondary burn with stove top thermometer at 330 and heading to the 400 degree range. Guess you could say I'm one happy camper. :coolsmile: