Heating w/Jotul 500C Rockland during the power outage/blizzard over the weekend - thoughts? advice?

[vector1701]

So I have been running my Jotul Rockland for a couple years now and I am very happy with it. Even on the coldest nights I can get the downstairs to around 70 degrees (2600 sq foot house, insert is on outside wall on first floor, first floor is 1360 sq ft).

I live in Rhode Island and on Friday night I started the Jotul a few hours before the power outage which happened Friday @9pm and lasted until Sunday @5pm. The downstairs has a mostly open floorplan, but there are some doors I can close to the front room and dining room area.. The Jotul worked great and it saved my butt from becoming a popsicle. However, there are a few things I noticed I would like to receive your feedback on.

I do not have a generator (yet), so the blowers were not working. Therefore, I was relying solely on the natural airflow around the insert, the radiant heat, and the heat coming off the surrounding stone hearth/wall. I was concerned over over-firing, especially without the blowers, so I would get the temps of the flue (using the IR thermometer) up to around 700 and kept them in the 500-700 range. I seemed go through an amazing amount of wood. I seemed to load 2 decent size splits in there every hour - 90 minutes (3 splits if they were smaller). The stove was a beast gobbling up wood like John Candy at a cupcake convention. The burned wood would have a white ashy look when I would open the door and reload, which did not happen under normal conditions. Since it was so cold out and blowing 30-50 mph winds on Friday into Saturday the rest of the house started to get cold so I blocked off the main room with blankets to keep the heat concentrated where I stayed. The temps in the room stayed in the mid-high 60's most of the time throughout the weekend, and the rest of the downstairs in the 50's (depending how far away from the stove other rooms were). Friday night the winds were bad but the temps were only in the high 20's. Saturday night the winds were down, but the temps outside hovered between 8-10 degrees. When the firebox needed to be kicked up and the wood was not hot enough (turning black vs. having nice hot flames) I opened the damper full throttle and would not lock the front door down all the way, to allow more air into the firebox. The temps inside the firebox would rise nicely and once at a good temp I could lock down the door and put the damper between 30-40% closed. It would usually run nicely at this setting as long as the temps in the firebox kept up and I fed the beast more wood on a regular 60-90 minute basis. The heat coming off the hearth and surrounding wall was great (temps of 150+) and the cast iron surround would get to about 220.

So some questions to you wood burning experts now that you have an idea of the situation explained above.

1 - Did I do this right? With the blowers off, my fright of over-firing, and unsure if the stove should even be running during a power outage, I wanted heat but I lacked blower control.

2 - Why did she eat so much wood? Obviously, without the blowers I was not getting alot of heat blown into the room, just the natural airflow of cooler air being sucked into the bottom and coming out the top. I was surprised I had to load her so much. Granted, I would not stack her full as I did not want to get to an out of control fire. Although, even though the stove is very big the firebox is not the largest out there so you can't pack the firebox too much. Usually, once at running temperature I can load have 3 splits in there for 2-3 hours versus 60-90 minutes.

Next time I will be more prepared as I will have a backup plan to run those blowers during the next winter power outage either from a generator or temporary battery source.

Thanks in advance for all your advice and suggestions


Drying out clothes and warming up after plowing/shoveling during the storm on Saturday morning. No worries as I never left the room with any of the clothes hanging (it was the only way to dry them out!!).

 

[jdp1152]

if you're running that thing with the damper partially opened, it's going to chew through and wood and produce less radiant heat. It would basically be a fireplace with face on it.

 

[cnice_37]

I have the same stove and was also without power in Southeastern MA for 2 days in the "blizzard". I immediately removed the surround, actually Friday afternoon, as it will radiate better into the room. I also have insulated block off plate above the stove.

I too was concerned with overfiring, seemed the stovetop cruised at 500F even at the coaling stage. House never dropped below 64F, and that is a win when it is 4F outside (at least in my situation it is)! I was really happy with that little guy (girl?)

I cut back on the amount of wood in a load, and targeted 5 hour burns, so about 6 average sized logs. I was proud of that little stove, I usually complain how the house isn't warm enough when it drops below 20F outside, but being home and able to burn round the clock, without the blower, I didn't mind 64F overnight and back up to 68F during the day.

 

[vector1701]

if you're running that thing with the damper partially opened, it's going to chew through and wood and produce less radiant heat. It would basically be a fireplace with face on it.

You recommend running full open all the time? When I was full open and reached a good operating temperature I did not want the temp to keep increasing, so I would close the damper somewhat to maintain the temp.

I have the same stove and was also without power in Southeastern MA for 2 days in the "blizzard". I immediately removed the surround, actually Friday afternoon, as it will radiate better into the room. I also have insulated block off plate above the stove.

I too was concerned with overfiring, seemed the stovetop cruised at 500F even at the coaling stage. House never dropped below 64F, and that is a win when it is 4F outside (at least in my situation it is)! I was really happy with that little guy (girl?)

I cut back on the amount of wood in a load, and targeted 5 hour burns, so about 6 average sized logs. I was proud of that little stove, I usually complain how the house isn't warm enough when it drops below 20F outside, but being home and able to burn round the clock, without the blower, I didn't mind 64F overnight and back up to 68F during the day.

Wow, so you were able to get 5 hour burns and loaded 6 logs in there? First, how do you fit so many logs in there (see my splits from the pic). Usually I can only fit 4 in there (how do you squeeze more than 5 in there??!?!). If you were worried about an overfire like myself, I would have thought putting more splits in would increase that likelyhood. Maybe that was my mistake as I should have packed more logs in, but I thought more wood = larger hotter fire (thoughts?). Your right those are good temps....

 

[jdp1152]

You recommend running full open all the time? When I was full open and reached a good operating temperature I did not want the temp to keep increasing, so I would close the damper somewhat to maintain the temp.



Wow, so you were able to get 5 hour burns and loaded 6 logs in there? First, how do you fit so many logs in there (see my splits from the pic). Usually I can only fit 4 in there (how do you squeeze more than 5 in there??!?!). If you were worried about an overfire like myself, I would have thought putting more splits in would increase that likelyhood. Maybe that was my mistake as I should have packed more logs in, but I thought more wood = larger hotter fire (thoughts?). Your right those are good temps....

Wait...are you talking primary air or the bypass damper (didn't look to see if it was a cat insert or not). If you're running it with primary air open like that, no worries as that's a preference. If you're running it with the bypass damper partially opened, you're sending valuable heat up the flue. Both will produce bigger flames...the latter prevents efficient burning.

 

[jdp1152]

Regardless...if you're producing flames like I see in the picture through the entire run, you're going to burn up the wood quicker.

 

[vector1701]

Wait...are you talking primary air or the bypass damper (didn't look to see if it was a cat insert or not). If you're running it with primary air open like that, no worries as that's a preference. If you're running it with the bypass damper partially opened, you're sending valuable heat up the flue. Both will produce bigger flames...the latter prevents efficient burning.

I just have 1 damper, so it was the primary damper...

Regardless...if you're producing flames like I see in the picture through the entire run, you're going to burn up the wood quicker.

That was taken as I had the damper open to get the heat back up to 600 on the flue....Once I got to running speed I would close the damper down and get it to a point wher there were just flames licking off the top of the wood and burning the gases.

 

[flyingpig]

I assume that you have the non-CAT Rockland (not the CB). In that case, you should have the primary air closed down almost 100% once the stove has reached the operating temp (450*F and up?) so that it'll burn mostly on secondary combustion. Also removing the surround should help a lot.

I've never experienced power outage during winter yet but my back up plan is a small USB powered fan and the UPS I have for my PC. The fan is tiny, and won't give much of the CFM required but it's better than nothing. Also the UPS should provide up to 30 hours of fan if I did my math right.

This is the one I use.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OJN250/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00

 

[vector1701]

I assume that you have the non-CAT Rockland (not the CB). In that case, you should have the primary air closed down almost 100% once the stove has reached the operating temp (450*F and up?) so that it'll burn mostly on secondary combustion. Also removing the surround should help a lot.

I've never experienced power outage during winter yet but my back up plan is a small USB powered fan and the UPS I have for my PC. The fan is tiny, and won't give much of the CFM required but it's better than nothing. Also the UPS should provide up to 30 hours of fan if I did my math right.

This is the one I use.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OJN250/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00

The Jotul 550C Rockland is a CAT. But yes, I lowered the primary air once I was at a good operating temp. Still only lasted for about an 60-90 minutes until I had to add 2 more splits to keep the temps....


I may use one of car jumpstart portable batteries and an inverter to run a box fan for airflow...

 

[cnice_37]

Your splits are bigger than mine... also I like burning N/S so I tend to cut shorter (14") rounds. I split smaller to get the wood to dry quicker. I am not 3 years ahead on wood supply, and this winter's heat is more like 1.5 years seasoned... so not ideal but it heats my house, keeps the oil man at bay, and the creosote formation is minimal.

All that being said, more splits = more heat, just be sure to shut her down quick enough to prevent overfiring.

Wide open primary means more heat going up the chimney rather than radiating from the firebox. Check your wood supply, remove the surround, secondaries kick in ~30mins after reload, crack a beer and enjoy.

 

[bboulier]

I don't see why one would burn differently without the fan than with the fan. You might cut down the air a little more quickly without a fan, since the heat loss without a fan will be less than with a fan.

I've burned without the fan and had no problems. You don't get as much heat distributed to the house without the fan, but otherwise your general approach should be the same. A couple of general remarks: (1) You seem to be running awfully hot. When I have the airflow cut down to about 1/8 open with beautiful secondaries, the IR temperature at the hottest place where the air blows out is only 475 or so. 700 sounds awfully high. Perhaps you should be cutting the air down more quickly. (2) Why are you only burning two splits at a time? Let the fire burn down to coals, rake forward, load it up, let the fire get started well, and cut down the air to 1/2, 1/3, and then 1/8 or so. Initially, the radiant heat will be limited as the first fire burns down. But, once the the fire box comes up to temp, you should get a fair amount of radiant heat even when the fire is low. You'll get more heat and burn less wood with this approach.

 

[begreen]

You recommend running full open all the time? When I was full open and reached a good operating temperature I did not want the temp to keep increasing, so I would close the damper somewhat to maintain the temp.

It sounds like you did pretty good. I suspect you were chewing through wood because the air control was open too much. A little less wood and a reduced air supply might have provided the same result.

FWIW, If I were expecting to depend on an insert during a power outage I would not have a flush insert or I would definitely have a small generator.

 

[bboulier]

It sounds like you did pretty good. I suspect you were chewing through wood because the air control was open too much. A little less wood and a reduced air supply might have provided the same result.

If I were expecting to depend on an insert during a power outage I would not have a flush insert, or I would definitely have a small generator.

I agree. But, family (i.e., wife) might view aesthetics as more important. I would have a stand-alone stove. My wife is happy with the Jotul. Works for me.

 

[begreen]

It's a beautiful insert for sure. But in an outage, the C450 might outperform it.

 

[mcollect]

During an outage a small inverter from the car will run the fan. Did that, but now have a generator( wife's idea).

 

[vector1701]

I don't see why one would burn differently without the fan than with the fan. You might cut down the air a little more quickly without a fan, since the heat loss without a fan will be less than with a fan.

I've burned without the fan and had no problems. You don't get as much heat distributed to the house without the fan, but otherwise your general approach should be the same. A couple of general remarks: (1) You seem to be running awfully hot. When I have the airflow cut down to about 1/8 open with beautiful secondaries, the IR temperature at the hottest place where the air blows out is only 475 or so. 700 sounds awfully high. Perhaps you should be cutting the air down more quickly. (2) Why are you only burning two splits at a time? Let the fire burn down to coals, rake forward, load it up, let the fire get started well, and cut down the air to 1/2, 1/3, and then 1/8 or so. Initially, the radiant heat will be limited as the first fire burns down. But, once the the fire box comes up to temp, you should get a fair amount of radiant heat even when the fire is low. You'll get more heat and burn less wood with this approach.

Thanks for the response, much appreciated. Yeah, without the fan/blowers there is not alot of heat distribution. In response to your remarks 1 - The temps of 600-700 was on the flue pipe itself, you are correct the air blowing out was about 475 or so. I agree, when it is up to speed and I cut down the damper the secondaries dace beautifully off the top of the wood and burn the gases nicely. 2 - I burnt only 2-3 splits at a time to prevent over-firing, but they would only last 90 minutes - 2 hours before they were hot red coals. Afterwards, I would wake up, rake the coals and add more wood, as you said.

It's a beautiful insert for sure. But in an outage, the C450 might outperform it.

Maybe. However the 550's firebox is 50% larger than the 450's 2 cu ft. At 3 cu ft.,but the 450 is also a beautiful insert.

During an outage a small inverter from the car will run the fan. Did that, but now have a generator( wife's idea).

Yeah, next time I won't forget to charge my portable car battery jumper and run my inverter to it to run the fans. I see a small generator in the future also, just in case. So far we have lost power for a few days twice over the past year and a half. If I see a 5000W under $500 come up on Slickdeals.com I may snag one...

I agree. But, family (i.e., wife) might view aesthetics as more important. I would have a stand-alone stove. My wife is happy with the Jotul. Works for me.

Same situation here. I am also very happy with the Jotul. Cranks out the heat....

 

[rkofler]

The Jotul 550C Rockland is a CAT. But yes, I lowered the primary air once I was at a good operating temp. Still only lasted for about an 60-90 minutes until I had to add 2 more splits to keep the temps....


I may use one of car jumpstart portable batteries and an inverter to run a box fan for airflow...

I'm confused, since when is the 550 a CAT???

 

[begreen]

Of course the C550 has the bigger firebox. The reason I say that the C450 might outheat it in a power outage is that the C450 has an adjustable projection out onto the hearth. If the stove is extended out onto the hearth it helps the stove convect better. At 2 cu ft you would need to feed more frequently, but the area could be warmer. Neither are going to perform as well as an insert designed to convect when the power is out. Some examples of this would be the PE Summit, Regency I3100, Country C310, Osburn 2400, etc.

 

[vector1701]

I'm confused, since when is the 550 a CAT???

I misspoke, my mistake!

Of course the C550 has the bigger firebox. The reason I say that the C450 might outheat it in a power outage is that the C450 has an adjustable projection out onto the hearth. If the stove is extended out onto the hearth it helps the stove convect better. At 2 cu ft you would need to feed more frequently, but the area could be warmer. Neither are going to perform as well as an insert designed to convect when the power is out. Some examples of this would be the PE Summit, Regency I3100, Country C310, Osburn 2400, etc.

Absolutely agree. The 550C surround I have is pretty big and I got some good heat off it. The 450 adjustable projection is an awesome feature. Yes, an insert designed for a power outage would be best. In the future I will be better prepared to run the blowers off battery or generator....

 

[weatherguy]

I had the same problem last year during the October snow storm, lost power for 6 days, it took me a while to learn how to control the stove without the blowers but by the end of the week I was pretty good at it, I ended up getting longer burns than when I use the blowers. Just had to start turning the air down sooner and get it down to almost shut off quick.
I know an insert isnt the best in power outages but my house was livable for a week with night time temps in the 20's and the family room where the stove is was in the 70's at all times, I ended up sleeping in the family room on the couch for the week.

 

[Chucking Wood]

Hi, this is an old thread but noticed a few of you all in the same area. I'm just north of Swansea, MA and looking at the same Jotul insert. You guys have any feedback on the dealers in the area? I've been to Woodstoves & Fireplaces in Middleboro, Fireplace showcase in Seekonk, Ashaway in Dartmouth, and spoke to Stovepipe shop in Warwick RI. FP showcase doesn't carry Jotul so I'm looking at the others. Any thoughts much appreciated!

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Hi, this is an old thread but noticed a few of you all in the same area. I'm just north of Swansea, MA and looking at the same Jotul insert. You guys have any feedback on the dealers in the area? I've been to Woodstoves & Fireplaces in Middleboro, Fireplace showcase in Seekonk, Ashaway in Dartmouth, and spoke to Stovepipe shop in Warwick RI. FP showcase doesn't carry Jotul so I'm looking at the others. Any thoughts much appreciated!

I purchased my insert from Preston trading post in Preston,ct. Very good staff, helpful, and nice to deal with.

 

[begreen]

Good folks at PTP.