Hello eveyone

[Niko]

Wanted to say hello to everyone on the board as i been reading a bunch of stuff the last month. Don't worry i have used your FAQ links and done my research as best as i can. I have a wood insert i will get all the details of it as im still trying to figure out what kind it is(gotta be from the 80s or early 90s). I bought a house 2 months ago so all this is very new to me. The first thing i did tho is buy 10 cords of wood and stacked them all nice nice like I've seen people do on youtube. The insert keeps the house very warm, around 3,000 sq feet divide by 2. The insert is only heating the upstairs and it doing on awesome job. Being a old insert tho im not getting very long burn times its got a huge firebox(prop 3)and 2 nice size fans that blow out the heat evenly threw the whole upstairs. I have been doing much research on what inserts to replace it with but have not ready yet.

So 2 questions i have. 1 the insert does not have firebricks in it, if i install them will a get a longer burn time?
The fireplace does not have a stainless steel liner in it. Mason fireplace with clay liner going up about 15 or so feet. My fireplace insert does not have your traditional 4,5,6 or whatever size exhaust per say coming out of the backtop of the box. Instead it has 5, 3 inch wholes 3 in the back and 2 in the front to let the exhaust out. Question 2 if i install a liner in my chimney with a dampner plate will this help making it more effient?

I hope I am making sense if not please let me know amd i will take pictures of what i want to do.

 

[webby3650]

A picture would be good. If the insert doesn't have a traditional exhaust it might not possible to attach a liner to it. I haven't seen one with multiple holes like you are describing. Adding firebrick, liner etc. will help a little but not much. It will make it a whole lot safer though!
By the time you pull that thing out, buy an 8" liner kit and most likely a custom adapter for the stove, you will have a lot of money tied up into it. A new stove will only require a 6" liner, you can apply the saving toward an efficient stove.

 

[Oregon aloha]

You have thermal mass around the insert, so added firebrick will not help much either with heating your home or longer burns. I don't think you are going to be able to improve much with your current stove where you will get the best bang for your buck. I would think about a replacement. You will save the money back with lower amount of wood needed to heat your home and the labor involved. A new stove will also be much safer for you and your home.

 

[Niko]

I know i have looked into many replacements. Blaze king princess, lennox 310, osburn 2400, fireplacex large hybrid. I am sure their are tons more more but these are the ones so far i have read about. Budget is based on what something is worth. If i can spend 4 and get what i want ill do it if i have to spend 8 ill do that. But with that being said i think these stoves are so over priced its unbelievable. That might be also the rookie in me talking, or is everyone a thief in the winter? I didn't t get to where i am in life by not putting in hard work and thinking outside the box. So if i have to add more wood for now so i can get a way better deal in the spring i will. That being said i guess its a learning experience ill have to findout. Also anyone have any good places from around my area? Im willing to travel so i can check out some cool show rooms..

 

[Niko]

 

[Niko]

So here are some pictures how many cords of wood would you guys say that is? Also some pictures of my insert just to give you a idea of size thats a 65 led tv above it..

 

[begreen]

1.5 -2 cords?

 

[Niko]

Please don't tell me i got robbed i bought 9 cords of wood.. 3 seperate deliveries with 15 yard dumpster..

 

[Niko]

 

[begreen]

Could be the angle of the photo, but there aren't 9 cords there. 9 face cords maybe if the pile continues on past what we see. But not 9 full cords.

PS: cute kiddo

 

[Niko]

Lol i got the little on in fromt but i got 2 piles like that and one more closer to the house that about half the size.

Those are about 20 feet long 6-7 feet high and 4-5 feet wide.

 

[Niko]

I will take better pictures of the wood and firebox showing measurements.

 

[webby3650]

No one is trying to rob you. This is what a quality stove costs! You could hold out and get a little better price in the summer, maybe. 10% off isn't uncommon, if you go in there with real money they would likely do that anytime of the year if you ask.

 

[Niko]

Thats what their exactly doing right now. Robbing people! Everyone does things the way the feel comfortble. Dealer want 580 dollars for a nickel door for a BK princess? Or 380 dollars for a blower on a canyon 310. Anyways you don't have to agree with me on my opinion on what i believe. I mean one place quoted me 1000 bucks on a install. I was like WHAT! Even at 100 dollars a hr that would be a 10 hr job. I know they are not gonna take 10 hrs. So lets say they take 5 hrs. What now I'm paying them 200 a hr? This is manual labor theirs really no special tools needed for installation right? Its not like I'm at a car dealership where I'm using their lifts, their computers systems and their huge abundance of tools and we all complain on who much of a ripoff they are.

Anyways i am obviously gonna get a new unit when i get the price i want! I mean for crying out loud black friday is coming soon everyone is having giant sale!

 

[Oregon aloha]

For me I didn't find a great deal until August. I purchased the stove and liner together for less than the original quote for just the stove. I did my own install so I don't know if you can swing a better deal on that. Installs are expensive. They cost a lot more then beer, so that's why I did my own.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Thats what their exactly doing right now. Robbing people! Everyone does things the way the feel comfortble. Dealer want 580 dollars for a nickel door for a BK princess? Or 380 dollars for a blower on a canyon 310. Anyways you don't have to agree with me on my opinion on what i believe. I mean one place quoted me 1000 bucks on a install. I was like WHAT! Even at 100 dollars a hr that would be a 10 hr job. I know they are not gonna take 10 hrs. So lets say they take 5 hrs. What now I'm paying them 200 a hr? This is manual labor theirs really no special tools needed for installation right? Its not like I'm at a car dealership where I'm using their lifts, their computers systems and their huge abundance of tools and we all complain on who much of a ripoff they are.

Anyways i am obviously gonna get a new unit when i get the price i want! I mean for crying out loud black friday is coming soon everyone is having giant sale!

If they are putting in a chimney liner- that part itself can cost. $1K install is reasonable with the liner. If the current stove is a slammer, then you should really look at a proper install

Maybe even without the liner- haven't priced them lately.

 

[begreen]

Thats what their exactly doing right now. Robbing people! Everyone does things the way the feel comfortble. Dealer want 580 dollars for a nickel door for a BK princess? Or 380 dollars for a blower on a canyon 310. Anyways you don't have to agree with me on my opinion on what i believe. I mean one place quoted me 1000 bucks on a install. I was like WHAT! Even at 100 dollars a hr that would be a 10 hr job. I know they are not gonna take 10 hrs. So lets say they take 5 hrs. What now I'm paying them 200 a hr? This is manual labor theirs really no special tools needed for installation right? Its not like I'm at a car dealership where I'm using their lifts, their computers systems and their huge abundance of tools and we all complain on who much of a ripoff they are.

Anyways i am obviously gonna get a new unit when i get the price i want! I mean for crying out loud black friday is coming soon everyone is having giant sale!

This attitude helps no one. The stove shop has lots of expenses besides the raw cost of labor. Do you think travel time or the trucks they arrive in are free? They have overhead, taxes, insurance, health care, rent, vehicles, tools, parts inventory, etc. All are expenses that need to covered in order to provide you a service. The rates you are being quoted are not extraordinary. The parts prices are what the mfg. lists them for, pure and simple. Of course there is profit there. This is how a business survives. It's not a high profit industry and it's seasonal which makes it tougher to stay in business year round. If you want to DIY to save money, fine, but don't knock the dealer for charging what they need to in order to survive. Especially not now in peak season.

These folks are your neighbors. The money they earn goes back into the community. What goes around comes around, perhaps to the local schools or fire protection one needs.Just imagine for a moment if there were no stove shops in your community. How convenient would that be?

 

[Nutmeg Warrior]

The market decides what a stove is worth. I couldn't afford the installation of a new stove, so I bought one off craigslist and installed it myself. It was a lot of work but I saved a ton of money. If you're handy, why not look at lightly used stoves and do the installation with a friend?

 

[Niko]

Gentlemen let first off buy saying i know alot about business. Second if it a seasonal business thats not my problem this is the business they choose to be in. Third I am very handy and will probably do the install myself but also keep my options open. Fourth its all about sales, id rather sale 100 of these things at a discount then 50 at full price. 100 equals more exposure, more exposure = more customers bla bla bla.

Not trying to start a debate but begreen be real man i have no attitude I'm a business man. They wanna pay everything on one job. At the end of the day they send some 10 dollar hr tech to do the job. Its not like I'm hiring some 30 year experience italian mason to come and make me a custom granite statue. The dealers don't make any of this stuff. They just buy and resale thats all. 1000 dollars for a install is a ripoff period! Also manufacturers suggested retail price is what it means. Dealers usually sell it for lower then that cause they buy in quantity or they have a relationship with the big boy. Anyways i asked questions on how to make my stove better as i doubt any of these new stoves will last as long as this one I have. Yes they are better, as time moves on most things do get better.

Im assuming as being a forum do you guys ever do a group buy? I will be patient and i will get my deal.

 

[begreen]

You are railing against an entire industry that you know little about. I think you will find without exception that they disagree with you. No we don't group buy here. This is peak season. You may find pricing more reasonable in February or March. For parts go to an online discounter and install safely. That could save you hundreds of dollars.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

Since you apparently understand the stove selling/install business better than the players out there- might I suggest starting a business and making a mint?

 

[Grisu]

Not trying to start a debate but begreen be real man i have no attitude...

LOL.

Thats what their exactly doing right now. Robbing people!

 

[Niko]

Gentlemen reading posts sometimes makes you think someone is talking with a attitude so apologize. I have 2 business one monitor engineer and the other a family restaurant. I understand the forums you get above average citizens when it comes to our topics. I can't speak for your area but where i am 85-90 percent of the people aren't burning at all for actual heat replacement. Burn once in a while for special occasion yes. But the American people in my area are too lazy to do what we all do. Burn to actually saVe tons of money on oil...

Anyways i love you all but if someone can come into my restaurant and complain that my coffee is expensive at 1.75 with free refile and i don't raise the price in the winter cause its peak season either.(how do you like them apples). I think i can talk about the dealers and their business ethics.

 

[begreen]

Funny the mention coffee, a product that the farmer gets paid about a dime on a dollar for, if he's lucky. A product that is 98% water and like soup, quite profitable. Do you charge more for asparagus or mangoes when they're out of season?

 

[Niko]

I dont do that to my customers. Its funny cause its all the loggers and workers that come in and order coffee. You can make it yourself at home for cheap you know you have that option. Unfortunately you cant make a cast iron fireplace at home now can you. I appreciate all of my customers no matter what you get. You cannot compare the industries as i make my products with my hands which can be better or worse then my competitors. The stoves are not made be the dealers they just sell em. The dealers can drop a product and take on a new one based on sales. I don't mass produce apple pies i bake em one at a time.

So back to the original subject i guess i gotta start making moves and finding the best place to buy one at..