Help!! Defiant 1610 Non-Catalytic

[pbk835]

Hello! I found this site at the end of last winter when I was beginning to have problems with my VC Defiant 1610. Spring came and I forgot about my issues, but they have resurfaced again. I spent a night reading post after post and I am amazed with the knowledge and experience on the forum. I was hoping someone might be able to point me in a direction with the following problem....

I have a 3 year old VC Defiant Non-Catalytic Woodstove that my wife and I had been burning close to 24/7 from Nov-March. The chimney is a center chimney, with an 8x8 flue with an 8" thimble and 8" pipe from the oval connector. We are burning mainly 2 year old oak with some maple mixed in.

Our first two winters were great, never had an issue and we got 8-9 hr burn time without problem. Last year when closing the damper we sometimes had a small amount of smoke visible at the griddle area and other times just a smell of smoke, not visible.

This year the griddle smoke was more noticeble, so I replaced the gasket and it seems to have helped. The other night I came home, stove was burning 2+ days straight, and I would see a flash of flame and smoke would push out around the glass doors. This occurred every two minutes or so.

I was nervous and had the chimney cleaned, no major issues, and vaccummed out the stove and lit it up this morning. It is warm here, (about 45-50 today) but I let the fire get going real good (over 500 on a surface mount thermometer on top of stove) and closed the damper. Again I had an odor, no visible smoke. This evening the "explosion" of flame is back and the smoke is pushed out the glass doors.....

I am concerned because my chimney seems to be all set, I never had issues with stove prior to last year. Could something be wrong with the reburn smoke chamber? I also see little difference whether the primary air control is open or closed. (I leave it wide open all the time) Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I plan on contacting my dealer tomorrow to pick his brain, but I thought I'd check with the forum first.

Thanks for your time and an excellent website!

Pat

 

[begreen]

I also see little difference whether the primary air control is open or closed. (I leave it wide open all the time)

That worries me a bit. The air control is on a thermostat and needs time to react. If the stove always needs full air, it sounds draft challenged or it's burning less than perfectly seasoned wood. The warmer weather may be a clue as to the backpuffing. How tall is the flue on the stove? Is there a screen on the cap and if there is, when was it last checked?

 

[pbk835]

There is no screen or cap on the chimney, I believe the flu is 25' and the chimney extends 4' above the ridge. I would wonder about the chimney, but I had no trouble with this stove in the prior 2 winters. I just dug out my receipt and we bought it in 2006, but we didn't get in the house till 07. So the winters of 08 and 09 I had no issues, it started towards the end of last year.

As for the temp tonight, it may be part of the problem, but the same thing happened when it was about 30 degrees over a week ago... I'm at a loss. The wood is definately seasoned/dry, it was split in the spring of 09....

I just had to let it burn out with damper open, no issues when it is wide open, but as soon as I close it I will get the smell and possibly the back puffing.....

 

[branchburner]

Could something be wrong with the reburn smoke chamber?

Yes, it could be clogged with ash, or be compromised some other way. I would pursue that, given your prior success with the stove/chimney setup. The fact that this smoking happens with fully-open air says to me you might have a clog, and if the smoking happens only when you engage the bypass, I would guess the restriction is associated with the afterburner.

 

[joel95ex]

just like most engine problems are spark-fuel-air....a flow problem is most likely intake vs exhaust issues. You would be suprised how fast and persistant animals are at making nests.... when i had an apartment, the dryer vent was not capped or screened and I found bird nests in there almost instantly after cleaning one out. check your intake---if you have an outside air source (or if your house is super tight then you may need an outside source) and the chimney for an obstruction====also check the the that the controls are working---sometimes the obvious is wrong and we look for complicated issues. let us know what you find. also i would have mentioned chimney insulation or temp probs but since you had a few good seasons, something has changed.

 

[begreen]

The flue is tall enough, assuming it is not full of 90 deg turns. When was the flue last cleaned? And the same for the stove?

 

[pbk835]

The flue was cleaned 3 days ago, yesterday was the first fire I had since the cleaning. The flue only has one 45 degree bend and a 3 ft. horizontol fun throught a thimble to the chimney. The stove was cleaned as well, I vaccummed it out, emptied the ash pan, etc. I have not taken it apart from the rear of the stove to clean the rear chamber.

In the owners manual it says to "take care not to damage the white fiborous material in this rear chamber". I remember reading posts where people said they had issues with this material breaking down. When I vacummed from inside the stove I put my hand up into the chamber and some of this material fell down, it seemed to be very brittle. Not sure what this means??

Thanks for the replies, any other ideas?

 

[chicoide]

I have a 1610 non cat defiant, and mine was smoking from the griddle as well, and back puffing, we took our stove apart and found the shoe gasket needed replacing, when they replaced the shoe gasket they didn't wait for the glue to dry and it got scrunched up and the pieces blocked the air holes, which meant it wasn't getting air and we had to leave the air completely open and still didn't get draft. Now that we removed the shoe gasket it is working beautifully. Our stove is not smoking from the griddle nor does it back puff (explosion of gasses) and it is heating well. Don't know if that is what is wrong with your stove, but boy it is like deja-vu to me.

 

[pbk835]

Thanks for the reply, sure sounds like the same thing. I had a good fire going last night (about 20 degrees outside), got the stove good and hot, and within 5 minutes of closing the damper the fire died right down and I began to get smoke smell and backpuffing.

It is now obvious to me that the stove is air-starved and my air control on the right side of the stove is not functioning or as in your case something is clogging it. My dealer is going to get back to me in the next few days, they may send someone out to check it out. I will definately mention your issues.

Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted

 

[schortie]

Another thing to look at would be the burn chamber in the very back of the stove. If you remove your connector and look down the back of the stove, on both sides of the fountain assembly you'll be able to see into the back lower corners of the stove - you may need a flashlight. This area does need to be vacuumed out from time to time and is covered in the manual. IF there's a lot of ash build up, this is probably the culprit. I had to rig a small diameter attachment to my shop vac to get something that would fit back there. Also, be VERY careful when doing this. The refractory material is incredibly fragile.

 

[chicoide]

yup that is bout right, we would get ours really hot and shut the damper on the stove and it would die right down and then start smoking. We did change the shoe gasket and is working beautifully, we also cleaned the stove out really good. We took a bicycle pump and stuck the little hose end in the back and pumped air into it just enough to blow out the smaller pieces that may have been covering the air holes too., it worked pretty good, just be careful though it is fragile and you will get some dust blowing back in your face, I covered my stove opening with a large rag.

 

[pbk835]

Thanks guys, I have notice that refractory material from the cleaning the stove from the front....under the "fountain" area. It is very, very brittle and I have actually had some fall apart as I attempted a thourogh cleaning of the stove.

I'm waiting on my dealer to call back, but I certainly plan to mention the shoe gasket and the area where possible ash build-up can occur. I did not clean from the back side as recommended, seems this could be a part of the problem.

Thanks again everybody!