Help me make up my mind. (Not a question about which stove)

[K2Orion]

Well, not exactly a question about which stove.
A brief explanation.
Last year we moved into a 1500 sq/ft 3bd/2bath open floor plan ranch with an unfinished walkout basement. It has a fireplace with a teeny weeny firebox with a 24"x24" opening. I found this site while searching for doors for this fireplace and have discovered there are much better ways to heat with wood than by using what I have.
I would really like to finish the basement with a 4th bed, 3rd bath and a 24x24 living room. In that living room I'll put in a quad 7100 that will heat the whole house, overnight, with no trouble. But these improvements will require significant capital and would probably not happen for several years. But I really want to start heating with wood before then. I have 6 cords of oak/hickory/locust seasoning now and have lots more oak/hickory to cut and would like to get the most out of burning it.

SO, should I install a lopi answer or something similar in my existing fireplace this year and take advantage of the tax credits? Or should I save my money and put it towards the future improvments? I would definitely save money by heating with wood because we currently have a 25 yr.old, inefficient heat pump. But would the savings offset the price of the insert? Is there a secondary market for an insert where I could make a little $$$ back to pay for quad 7100?

Please make up my mind for me.

 

[DBoon]

If you were going to buy something now with the intent to replace it later, make sure to buy something of good quality since you'll be able to resell it later at a better price. The Answer certainly fits the bill. I have one and it is a great little stove. With the blower, it puts out a lot of heat using hardwoods.

Also, if you get a stove now and plan on a bigger one later, try to match the chimney pipe size as this is expensive to replace.

I have a 1200 square foot house in Central NY (8000+ degree days last year) and it heats the house nearly every day in the winter when I am there. OK, the back rooms are cooler than the front, but it pumps out a lot of heat, and the lack of heat in the back is more about layout than the stove.

My house has been insulation retrofitted in the walls, and has 16" of fiberglass in the attic and 6" in the floors underneath. Windows are in good shape with storm windows throughout.

You will hear plenty of people telling you to upsize the stove, but if you don't have the room, then it can cost a lot to make a bigger stove work. A small stove that can be used now will go a long way in reducing expensive oil heating bills, and reducing some of the uncertainty of how much heating will cost.

 

[BrotherBart]

The coldest I have ever been in my life was a windy winter night in downtown St. Louis, MO. The insert will do a lot to heat your house and reduce the bills. That 7100 is not only a lot of money and installation work but could be more firepower than you need.

I bet that if you get an insert that works in that fireplace you will be more than happy. Sure it won't do the whole job but it will do a lot of it. Get one that has a firebox that extends as far out as clearances allow to let you put as much wood in as you can.

Don't pay so much attention to all the talk here about all night burns. Pay attention to supplementing your heating system.

 

[Dix]

Is the fireplace in the basement? Or on the main floor?

Welcome to the forums !

 

[begreen]

Good question Dixie. Also, what is the height of the lintel of the fireplace opening? If it provided more capacity, would you be opposed to a freestanding stove using this fireplace opening if possible?

 

[scfa99]

I think if you install the 7100 you will need to have windows open in the house. I think its a bit too big for your house.

 

[K2Orion]

The fireplace is on the main floor. It is on the end of the house with the chimney on the outside, so not much thermal mass inside. The bedrooms are on the opposite end of the house. The firebox is 24w x 24t x 18 deep. It has about 15' of rectangular 3x6? flue. I really dont want a freestanding stove. I would prefer an insert. Just our preference because of appearance and it is a small room and we don't want to lose any more floor space.
I was considering the 7100 because of its aux air capabilities and other options. But it probably would be too large. What other similiar units are available that would be better suited? I guess I could build a hearth around a smaller insert that is sized more for my sq. ft. I intend to place the 7100 or similiar in a more central location in the house and build chase for it. The 7100 would be nxet to the sairs from the basement to the upstairs. The 7100 in the basement would also be more convenient for getting wood to it. The basement has french doors that open onto a patio that is below the deck where the wood will be out of the elements. t will also be easier to keep several nights or a weeks worth of wood right outside the door.

 

[Todd]

Is this a full basement? Is your total sq ft 3000 including basement? The Quad 7100 would be a good choice. There are others similar, Regency, Fireplace Extraordinaire, or you may even want to consider a large wood stove in the basement (cheaper than fireplace) like the Blaze King and have your Lopi insert to help out on the colder days if the BK cant keep up with both floors?

 

[Wet1]

Heating from the basement sounds like it might be a good idea, but only if you're going to insulate it. There are huge loses heating an uninsulated basement. Your concrete walls have the insulating properties of just a sheet of plywood... so you can image how much wood it would take just to heat a 1500 sq ft plywood only 'house' all by itself, never mind the additional 1500 sq ft of insulated area above it!

 

[CrappieKeith]

Once again I will pointout that maybe a wood furnace tied into some ducting may be the better choice to heating your whole home evenly.
You'll gain the ability to heat 100% on wood without paying for the expensive back up and you can heat without power without the pitfall of warping and splitting fireboxes like you will in most stoves.
You'll also be able to heat on less wood as a furnace typically has more heat exchange surface area.
A thermostat will also cycle from the main living area keeping the heats even throughout your whole home.

 

[BrotherBart]

...and you can heat without power without the pitfall of warping and splitting fireboxes like you will in most stoves.

I have to cry foul here Keith. I know your exuberance for wood furnaces but wood stoves do not warp, crack or split because of loss of electric power.

Blowers are optional on virtually every wood stove that offers them.

 

[CrappieKeith]

...and you can heat without power without the pitfall of warping and splitting fireboxes like you will in most stoves.

I have to cry foul here Keith. I know your exuberance for wood furnaces but wood stoves do not warp, crack or split because of loss of electric power.

Blowers are optional on virtually every wood stove that offers them.

I was just speaking from my expierences talking with folks over the last 12 years. Maybe you have better luck.
Just a point....blowers do not work without power.

I deal with a lot of folks where it's normal to see 10-25 below zero for temps and working a stove to heat the whole home usually does not bode well for the homeowner especially when it has 2 or 3 floors to heat.Sure some stoves can withstand the duress of not having a blower when making full capacity heats for long periods of time.
I know this is predominately a stove forum , and furnaces do not get talked about much except in the case of boilers which are very inefficient as a whole and most certainly do not work without power.

I do believe a stove has it's place, but to suggest that a stove can heat the home evenly on all levels is a stretch.
For example a Yukon Husky that has 54 square feet of heat exchange surface area. That most often 4 times what you'll find in a stove.

I could be all wet on this but I mainly wanted to point out that a furnace may be a better choice.
I know that there are many postings here that say to the effect that the owner is looking for a longer burn time or how should I make my splits to achieve a longer burn time or how do I move the heat to other parts of my home? I also see that some owners will say that they are happy with the saving they have over what they could have spent in liquid fuel ,but the also say that their unit does not take care all of the heating needs,only a portion.
I'd point out that a 1500$ add on could have heated the whole home instead of their pretty stove doing only part of it and in a lot of cases that pretty stove cost more than the add on would have.

Sure not everyone has a basement to put a true work horse in to heat the entire home. That's why I had said an astethically pleasing stove has it's place. Some homes are single levels and some homes are closer to the Mason Dixon line where they do not see temps colder than in the teens.
So some may say exuberance, I'd prefer to call it leveling the playing field or in other words there's always 2 sides of every coin.

 

[BrotherBart]

I agree that wood furnaces have their place and if their was more than one clean burning one out there I would be back to looking for one for this house. But the fact remains that over firing warps and cracks fireboxes. Not power failures. And people in the market for a stove shouldn't be told otherwise. Stoves are heated a lot hotter for UL testing than they will be in a home. Without a blower. And if they split down the middle they fail.

 

[wendell]

Keith, but if the electricity goes out, you have no fan to move the hot air from the wood furnace, correct? Seems like you would get awful cold, awful quick.

 

[CrappieKeith]

Keith, but if the electricity goes out, you have no fan to move the hot air from the wood furnace, correct? Seems like you would get awful cold, awful quick.

Heat rises on it's own.
Having metal ducting above a wood furnace that does not have any down turns in the ducting will deliver heats throught the home like normal just a bit slower.

 

[CrappieKeith]

I agree that wood furnaces have their place and if their was more than one clean burning one out there I would be back to looking for one for this house. But the fact remains that over firing warps and cracks fireboxes. Not power failures. And people in the market for a stove shouldn't be told otherwise. Stoves are heated a lot hotter for UL testing than they will be in a home. Without a blower. And if they split down the middle they fail.

You are correct on all levels ,but with blowers evacuating heats under normal full load operations a box stays much cooler...ergo when there is a lack of power and the blower is not operating the chances of failure are much higher. UL does test to the extremes.
I have also noticed most stove warranties are around 5 years....not 30. Is that because they wear out that soon? Sure some do so how good of a deal is it to get one that you replace every five years instead of 20-30 years.
If they wear out that soon ....you'd think that without power there is more likely hood of them failing.

 

[timfromohio]

Where do you envision spending most of your time - main level or on the basement level once you complete your remodel? Personally, I enjoy being able to see the stove and would take that into account as well as the other factors you mentioned. A big stove on the basement level that could heat the house would be very nice, but if you don't plan on spending your relaxation/down time near the stove you might find you miss seeing the stove in operation. This might sound strange, but I'm sure others here will attest to how visually pleasing it is to gaze at the stove humming along.

As for big stove later, small insert now - I'd save up and get what you really want. You'll save money in the long run. Why not work on getting the big stove installed in the basement sooner than later and doing the remodel bit by bit?

 

[K2Orion]

As for big stove later, small insert now - I'd save up and get what you really want. You'll save money in the long run. Why not work on getting the big stove installed in the basement sooner than later and doing the remodel bit by bit?

This is what I want to do but I don't think it is realistic at this time. Getting the 7100 where I want it involves removing some columns and putting in a beam to span the room to make it 1 large living space.
Once the basement is finished, with insulated walls and all that fancy stuff, it will be ~2800 SQ.FT. It will be the main living room with carpet floors and toys for the kids and the big tv and recliner for me. The kids are part of the reason I don't want a traditional stove. My wife and I also prefer the looks of a fireplace with a masonary surround/hearth.

 

[K2Orion]

And I don't want a wood furnace.

 

[BrotherBart]

You need to give some thought to using the tax credit to replace that heat pump. I have one the same age only because we never use it and it died some years back. Very few of them live 25 years. And an new one would save you a ton of money on electricity year round over the old one. And it is some kind of rule that the thing will die the week after the tax credit expires. That thing is living on very borrowed time besides being inefficient.

Edit: And I will be using the tax credit to get a new heat pump before the end of 2010.

 

[K2Orion]

Bart, is the tax credit available for heat pumps as well? I probably should look into that first. Got any more info or a link?

 

[BrotherBart]

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=tax_credits.tx_index