Help! Replacing my Vermont Casting ZC Winter Warm Large Fireplace!

[jshrewsbury304]

Hello All,

I'm looking for some guidance. I've been visiting this site and these forums for two years now, basically since I moved into my new house with a fireplace. I haven't quite found a situation like mine so here it goes.

Two years ago I moved into a house with a Vermont Castings WinterWarm Large Zero Clearance Fireplace. The stove is 12 years old, the same age as the house. The previous owner(s) have misused this unit and in its current condition it absolutely eats the wood, extremely inefficient. I'm seeing burn times of 2-4 hours using maple & oak with a moisture content of 20% or less. I've replaced various parts and gaskets but things are so warped that a ton of air leaks into the unit and she runs wide open. Therefore, it is getting replaced.

I'm sure I'll need to answer some questions but here is some information in advance.

Budget - Do not currently have one, however, the ultimate goal is to eventually recoop the cost of the stove versus using propane. Propane is very expensive currently.

Stove Location - The current stove is located on the main floor of the house in the living room, the master bedroom is on the opposite wall behind the stove.

Wood Available - I own 2 acres, 1.5 wooded, and I am surrounded by woods available for clearing. The primary wood I have access to is Ash, Oak, Maple, and Cherry.

Climate/Weather - Northern WV (4 Seasons)

Burn Time - I'm looking for 8+ hours.

Room/House Size- The basement is 80% below ground and is 1000 square feet: Bedroom, Bathroom, Utility Room, and Large Living Room. The main floor is 1600 square feet, open concept living room and kitchen, 9 foot ceilings. The master bedroom and bath are on the back side of the fireplace. The 2nd Floor is 1000 square feet with two large bedrooms separated by a bath.

Desired Temperature - 68+ is comfortable for us

Existing Stove - Vermont Castings Winter Warm Large Zero Clearance Fireplace

Existing Liner - 8" SS, total height of 21 feet with 19 feet inside of the house.

Insulation - House is well insulated.

Chimney/Masonry - I do not have one/any.


Right now with the existing fireplace at a 20 degree outside temperature I can heat the main floor to 75ish with the heat radiating upstairs reading around 70+. The house has two furnaces, one in the basement that does the main floor and basement and one for the upstairs. The thermostat for the basement furnace is located on the main floor so when the main floor warms up the furnace doesn't kick on and the basement remains quite cold. (We will get to that later)

I have a pretty unique situation and most places in my area that I have called don't even recognize my fireplace. Therefore, I've had literally no help. A couple places have made me nervous using terminology interchangeable that shouldn't be, I don't want these people installing something in my house that could burn down everything that I've worked hard for.

My goal is to use wood as my primary source of heat, I'm currently using it to heat the main floor, where my wife and I sleep, and the upstairs, upstairs is currently vacant, no kids yet.

My brother currently lives with us while he finishes up his doctorate degree, he is staying in the basement. Right now he is using an electric fireplace in the living room, while he watches tv and does homework, and using an electric oil radiator heater in the bedroom while he sleeps. He is there 10-12 hours a day.

Having said all of this I would love to have something that could heat the main floor with heat radiating to the second floor maintaining a comfortable temperature up there from the radiated heat. I have that now, but with a very inefficient stove.

In replacing this stove I was hoping that I could use the radiant heat two duct system of the Pacific Energy FP30 to pipe heat to his bedroom with one and the other to his living room above the sectional. where he spends most of his time. I currently have a quote of 10k for this exact setup, this is from a dealer about an hour away that I have had dealings with in the past that I feel would do decent work. A major reason for the cost of the project is due to the removal of my current fireplace, we are removing it out the back wall, which will be torn down from my bedroom, as to not disturb the masonry on the front of the fireplace. The system is to tall and cannot be installed from the front without damaging the stone. If this system will not provide adequate heat down stairs, adequate meaning not running two, expensive, electric heaters all the time, then I have no reason to go with the large, expensive stove, that requires a lot of work and demolition.

If the FP30 wont suit my needs I was curious if anyone had experience with the FP16. The FP16 is small enough that it can be tipped over and slid into my existing opening without any demolition, I have a quote on this install at 6500. Both installs include the stove installed, liner, framing, ductwork(fp30 only) etc,. Will the FP16 Heat the 1600 sqft. on the main floor and radiate good heat upstairs like my existing unit? Size wise, is the FP16 the best unit I can get for as far as ZC goes?

An acquaintance suggested I pull the old stove out, line the opening with brick/stone, and put a free standing stove in. Is this even possible or recommended over the ZC?

I'm just trying to figure out what my options are. Logically speaking I highly doubt that the radiated heat piped through duct-work downstairs will be enough heat for that large of an area. However, I thought I'd ask to see if anyone could attest to how much heat would be produced.

So if the FP30 is out, what would you guys recommend? I currently have propane heat, a coworker recommend I put a propane fireplace downstairs to heat the area when needed and use the smaller fireplace upstairs to heat the main floor and upstairs.

10k and 6k are alot of money and with my specific situation I can't get any good help/recommendations and ITS DRIVING ME NUTS.

Thanks in advance to everyone who responds!

Pictures:

Backwall1: The wall in the bedroom that will be demolished to insert the larger FP30.

Underneath1,2,&3: Area underneath the hearth. The block wall in this area is one of the walls to the downstairs bedroom, the ductwork can literally be run straight down. This area underneath the hearth is 10% underground with a double door that opens to the back yard, easy access for an OAK if needed.

WinterWarmSpecs: Current specs on my existing stove.

 

[webby3650]

So this is a Winter Warm insert inside a VC cabinet? Sounds like that's the case. If so, removing the entire cabinet is the what you will need to do. I doubt anyone will be willing to mix any others brands with that cabinet.

 

[iron]

damn. that's a nice setup there. i can see why you're trying to save it. there are many experts here and they will give you good advice. here's my relatively inexperienced take:

1. piping the air through ducts will not work as well as you'd like

2. a freestanding stove, like a blazeking, will give you the best burn times and low steady heat. if you can stand the look in that setting you already have. i have not seen ZC fireplaces with good burn times. biggest drawback i see is the need for E/W loading. a stove, with N/S loading, would be far nicer. in our ZC FP, we get about 6 splits in on a full reload --- awkwardly. in a stove, you get 15+.

3. for the heat in the basement, we have the same issue. the HVAC thermostat is on the main floor with the fireplace. i'm going to replace it and put a wireless thermostat in the basement for "zone heating". then, my furnace will be able to use some of the warm air generated by the fireplace to keep the downstairs where we want it; it will also even out some of the heat differential in our house (current temps: fireplace room ~75, kitchen ~73, bedrooms between 68-70, downstairs 58-60). i also put in some wall heaters in the basement as a supplement.

4. for <$10k, you might consider ductless heat pumps for the basement. then use your fireplace however you like.

 

[kennyp2339]

Buy a new epa compliant zero clearance unit (your not trying to heat the place with it) install a wood add on furnace downstairs to your existing duct work (you will also notice a warmer basement)

 

[jshrewsbury304]

damn. that's a nice setup there. i can see why you're trying to save it. there are many experts here and they will give you good advice. here's my relatively inexperienced take:

1. piping the air through ducts will not work as well as you'd like

2. a freestanding stove, like a blazeking, will give you the best burn times and low steady heat. if you can stand the look in that setting you already have. i have not seen ZC fireplaces with good burn times. biggest drawback i see is the need for E/W loading. a stove, with N/S loading, would be far nicer. in our ZC FP, we get about 6 splits in on a full reload --- awkwardly. in a stove, you get 15+.

3. for the heat in the basement, we have the same issue. the HVAC thermostat is on the main floor with the fireplace. i'm going to replace it and put a wireless thermostat in the basement for "zone heating". then, my furnace will be able to use some of the warm air generated by the fireplace to keep the downstairs where we want it; it will also even out some of the heat differential in our house (current temps: fireplace room ~75, kitchen ~73, bedrooms between 68-70, downstairs 58-60). i also put in some wall heaters in the basement as a supplement.

4. for <$10k, you might consider ductless heat pumps for the basement. then use your fireplace however you like.

Thanks! Wife says no go on freestanding, she likes the current look and I'm inclined to agree with her.

Looking at another thread of a 30 Install it appears the heating ducts may work better than I thought.

I'd be ok going with a smaller stove and dealing with the basement by other means, however, it appears to get a unit in there to produce the heat that I want I'm going to have to demo that wall no matter what.

 

[jshrewsbury304]

Buy a new epa compliant zero clearance unit (your not trying to heat the place with it) install a wood add on furnace downstairs to your existing duct work (you will also notice a warmer basement)

Looks like I'll need to stick to a ZC, but I am trying to heat main floor and upstairs with it.

I looked into the add on furnace and if I had another access point to the basement that would be great but as it stands I have to carry all the wood through the house. To take it through the living room, down stairs, and through the other living room would get me in trouble with the wife, I already track enough dirt, mud, etc in as is.

 

[jshrewsbury304]

Does anyone have any experience with ZC units that they would like to share? I was looking at the PE FP16 but am open to other models of similar quality and burn times.

 

[begreen]

There are many threads here on ZC fireplaces and their installation. Search on Zero Clearance, title only and dozens will come up. Matt posted a list of some that came from his research. There are others too.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/free-standing-wood-stove-vs-zero-clearance.155806/#post-2093105

 

[saydinli]

When the FP30 is at cruise temps (450-650), it'll warm the basement no problem with the remote ducts. The important thing I've noticed is that the remote ducting works best when the unit is constantly at cruise temps. Once you let the temp drop below 300 for an extended time, you'll start to notice the difference in the heat output of the remote ducting. So there is an inherent issue that due to the nature of wood burning, there will be heat drop off before ready for the next load. (unless you continuously feed it 1 or 2 splits every couple of hours)
The FP30 is a beast and puts out a ton of heat when fully loaded. Especially with the chimney set up you have, you'd get amazing draft, plus the FP30 is a really easy breather with the OAK.

 

[begreen]

Note that Matt's list is missing Kozy and SBI made fireplaces under the Osburn and Valcourt label. Also missing Regency and Buck ZC fireplace options.