Help sizing a stove, barn renovation

[gfirob]

Looks like we have a total of 7 candidates, all with the same general scope of burn time and firebox size:

1) Jotul F400 Castine,
2) Woodstock Fireview,
3) Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim
4) PE Alderlea T4 Classic
5) Quadrafire Yosemite,
6) Hampton H300
7) Hearthstone Shelburne

I see the Hearthstone H300 is made with Spanish castings. Any of the rest of these made with Chinese castings? Anything wrong with Spanish castings?
The PE Alderlea has very expensive shipping to Vermont, compared to the others, I think.

Any other characteristics that might make one or two of these stand out over the others, given the nature of the space (or step backwards)?

Thanks again

 

[1ruralmailman]

first off congratulations on your mew build.my wife and i did that magic trick of converting a barn to a house in 07.you cant beet the asthetic appeal of having 200year old pegged beams in your rooms.our barn/house is 1500 sq.feet 750 upstairs,and 750 down.we are insulated with r21 walls and floors,and r 38 ceillings.
now as for moving heat between floors,we just have a open staircase with two ceiling fans that move heat up and cool air down very effectively.have you investigated the wood heat only legalities,we were forced by code to have a true heat ie boiler to get through code.we have a country 2000 from tractor supply that does around90 pecent of our heating.the only thing we have against it is the healthy appetite for wood it has.we are determined to get a woodstock ideal steel for next year.the reviews and new owners are all thumbs up for this stove,we looked at one this fall and came away impressed.
good luck and let us know how this works out.

 

[begreen]

Hearthstone castings are quite nice and of good quality. The parent company is Hergom which is well known in Europe.

 

[gfirob]

Thanks for the information about Hearthstone. I understood the Spanish castings were more consistent than Chinese castings, but I have no idea who uses Chinese castings. i hope the Norwegians don't...

I am not going to be living in the barn, I am using it for home offices for my wife and I and storage. There will be no water in it (the house is very close and it has town water and sewerage). But I will check about Vermont (or the town's) zoning and permit limitations.

Where do you have the ceiling fans, over the stairs themselves? Our stairs are along one wall, about 13 feet from the stove.

Thanks again for the help.

Rob

 

[begreen]

I would cross off the VC Resolute and replace it with the Blaze King Ashford 20 or 30.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

I would cross off the VC Resolute

Yup

 

[Simonkenton]

So sad to see, the demise of Vermont Castings. I had a 1988 VC Resolute burned it night and day for 6 years. Sold that house, and sold the Resolute with it. I wish I still had that stove.

Too bad they have gone down the drain. My mom still has a 1988 VC Resolute and uses it frequently, it still works great.

 

[firefighterjake]

Looks like we have a total of 7 candidates, all with the same general scope of burn time and firebox size:

1) Jotul F400 Castine,
2) Woodstock Fireview,
3) Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim
4) PE Alderlea T4 Classic
5) Quadrafire Yosemite,
6) Hampton H300
7) Hearthstone Shelburne

I see the Hearthstone H300 is made with Spanish castings. Any of the rest of these made with Chinese castings? Anything wrong with Spanish castings?
The PE Alderlea has very expensive shipping to Vermont, compared to the others, I think.

Any other characteristics that might make one or two of these stand out over the others, given the nature of the space (or step backwards)?

Thanks again

With the possible exception of #3 . . . all of these look like good candidates.

Now I will say right up front I am a Jotul Fanboy . . . but that said . . . you really, really, really need to take a day and check out the Woodstock Factory and Showroom . . . if for no reason because it's relatively close to you . . . plus the folks are wicked nice . . . and seeing the stoves in person is a whole other experience than just looking at pictures on line.

 

[Ashful]

What I missed in the OP, and others seem to have assumed, is what this space will be used for. I'm in the middle of an identical project on a slightly larger barn (1500 sq ft), and plan to heat with mini splits. No way am I running out to the barn, which will be weekend warrior work shop space, to load a stove 2x per day! Are you planning to live in this barn?

 

[firefighterjake]

What I missed in the OP, and others seem to have assumed, is what this space will be used for. I'm in the middle of an identical project on a slightly larger barn (1500 sq ft), and plan to heat with mini splits. No way am I running out to the barn, which will be weekend warrior work shop space, to load a stove 2x per day! Are you planning to live in this barn?

Sounds like it will be used for a home office/work space . . . depending on what the OP does . . . may be used a lot of hours on a daily basis or only occasionally. If they're looking for a woodstove I would bet they plan on spending many hours there working.

 

[gfirob]

I'm sorry, I should have made that clear. The barn will be used as an office area. My wife and I have a home business. The farmhouse with the property is quite small (1500 sq feet) and is heated with hot water baseboard fired with oil, and a Jotul F100. There will be no plumbing in the barn, but it has electric power.

So there will be a couch and seating area around the stove and desks and book cases along the walls. The second floor will be for a guest bedroom and will probably end up being used to store a lot of junk I don't seem to be able to get rid of... So the ideal stove would be fairly long burning (mostly 24/7 or at least 24/5) and capable of cranking out the heat when it really gets bitter (last winter a friend of ours in Northern Vermont had his septic field freeze, which is very unpleasant). And I like the look of an enameled cast-iron stove and I have good history with Jotuls. My major beef with Jotuls is their cost.

I liked the Woodstock stove, their American origin and the soapstone idea, but I don't see an easy or cheap way to get it delivered and set up. I'm in my 60's and my heavy lifting days are behind me...

Thanks for the help and ongoing advice

Rob

 

[Ashful]

If you're balking at the cost of a Jotul, you clearly have not priced out those Woodstocks! Good stoves aren't usually cheap, although some cheap stoves seem to work pretty well, eg. Englander.

 

[Ashful]

2) Don't go big. That's a pretty popular notion around here lately. They'll say things like "you can always build a small fire in a big stove" - while this is technically true, what will most likely happen is you'll end up smoldering your stove along on all but the very coldest days.

I would qualify that by stating this only applies to non-cat stoves. If buying catalytic, go as big as you please. Cat stoves are happy to pull 30+ hour burn times at 300F stovetop temp.

 

[gfirob]

Well, in my life I have always regretted buying cheap (something I confess I have done more than once) and since a wood stove involves not only comfort, efficiency and esthetics, but safety, cost should not be my primary concern (though it is difficult to back away from my profoundly cheap nature). And I have owned Jotuls before and I like them.

The other major question I have is whether or not the catalytic issue should be a deal breaker. I like the idea of burning low and long but I don't like the idea of replacing the catalytic unit or worrying about the nature of the wood too much. On the other hand, I have experienced chimney fires while using the old airtight stoves on overnight burns (a deeply unpleasant experience). How do the clean burning non-cat Jotuls compare with their catalytic competitors? Any thoughts?

And thanks again for all the input. This is a very confusing decision given all the variables and the fact that people, in their reviews tend to love whatever stove they bought unless they have a really awful experience with them.

Rob

 

[Frugal]

Rob, with all due respect to the rules of thumb you've seen on this thread: Calculate, don't speculate. You can calculate the barn's heat loss using any recognized calculation method. Slant/Fin (the fin-tube baseboard mfr) had a heat loss calculator called Hydronic Explorer. You can download it from a heating wholesaler, P.V. Sullivan. Here's a link to the download site: http://www.pvsullivan.com/Downloads.html

Knowing the heat loss of the barn, now you can properly size a stove.

 

[gfirob]

Thanks for the link, Frugal, but my Mac can't open it. You make a good point in that all the btu/heating-area estimates from all the stoves manufacturers are based on lots of unknowns, averages and speculation, but it seems to me all one can do is to average and estimate with the things you do know. This is one of the reasons the decision is difficult and forums like this are so useful. In my case, the insulation and drywall aren't even in yet, we are just going with the contractor's recommendations and he is a Vermont guy who heats with wood and seems to be familiar with the criteria. After all, what do I know? I have found another heat loss calculator and I'l give it a shot with what I know at this point though, thanks.
Rob

 

[Ashful]

Looks like we have a total of 7 candidates, all with the same general scope of burn time and firebox size:

1) Jotul F400 Castine: A beautiful and reliable stove from a company with an excellent reputation of top-quality products.

2) Woodstock Fireview: A very solid heater. I'm not a fan of the cosmetics, but that's in the eye of the beholder. I'm blown away by Woodstock's customer service, definitely one of the best in the industry. Do note that many Fireview owners have been upgrading to the Progress Hybrid the last two years, and so it should be pretty easy to find used Fireviews.

3) Vermont Castings Resolute Acclaim: Forget it. Garbage company. Save yourself the grief.

4) PE Alderlea T4 Classic: Many PE T4 fans here. I've never seen one in person, but I've not heard many stones thrown at PE, in general. Steel box with iron decorative plates, if I recall?

The remaining three would be near the bottom of my list, perhaps right above Vermont Castings.

5) Quadrafire Yosemite,
6) Hampton H300
7) Hearthstone Shelburne

 

[begreen]

I can't agree with that bottom assessment. We don't see as many of these stove perhaps, but the owners are quite satisfied. Their quality is good and they have nothing like the refractory failures common to the Resolute Acclaim.

 

[Ashful]

You're right, begreen. The Quad and Hampton are at the bottom of my list entirely due to lack of familiarity. The Hearthstone may not be a bad stove, but when I was shopping new stoves two years ago, two local Hearthstone dealers told me that they would buy Jotul over hearthstone, if they weren't going with soapstone.

 

[Woody Stover]

A vote for the Fireview. Soapstone excels in the type of open space you're describing. I would walk in the door, 25' from the stove, and could feel the radiant heat. I don't get that to near the same degree with the cast iron stove I'm running right now. This translates to the room feeling a couple of degrees warmer if you are within sight of the stove. It's a cat; With moderate outside temps, you may not have to touch the stove for upwards of 16 hrs. Woodstock parts are some of the most reasonably-priced you'll find. The cat is just $125. The only reasons I kept the Keystone instead of the Fireview was the bigger window and the grated ash-handling system. The Fireview definitely had more top end, and better radiation with more double-layer stone. To me, the Fireview is a cool-looking stove, and I bet it would look great in the old barn setting. You can take a little road trip to Woodstock and pick out your stove! There are ways to handle the stove when you get it home, with dollies and such. Heck, my nephew and I picked it up off the pallet and set it on the hearth ( not quite sure how a 60-yr. old man did that...musta been new-stove adrenalin.) With a couple of guys helping, handling it won't be a problem. Heating up the stone stove is not the problem some make it out to be. Get the probe made for the stove. Load up and get the probe to 1000. Cut the air to hold it there for 10-15 min. Close the bypass and the cat takes off. No need to get the stove top to 250 as suggested in the manual, especially with the steel cat.

I don't necessarily know what I'm talking about, but I feel like I do.

We know; No need to re-affirm it with statements like this:

they are not very attractive.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

We know; No need to re-affirm it with statements like this:

They really do look terrible. I can't believe I'm the only one that sees it. It's pretty lonely over here.

 

[Ashful]

They really do look terrible. I can't believe I'm the only one that sees it. It's pretty lonely over here.

I agree with you, Redd. But, they need to make stoves for people with poor aesthetic taste, too!

 

[OK_Bill]

I am an old-time Vermont Castings fan, and had a 1988 VC Resolute that was a great stove.
Lately, there have been a lot of quality control problems with Vermont Castings. If you had read as many reports on this forum about VC as I have, you would not buy a Vermont Castings stove.

One data point here - I recently purchased a new VC Encore "flexburn" stove. It can run either in catalytic or non-catalytic modes.

Quality control? I had my finger on that. Took the stove completely apart right off the pallet. It was perfect. Superb workmanship! And PRETTY.

Burning black oak here in Oklahoma, we only use it as supplemental heat for when the big cold fronts come down. But, its easily heating the back 1/2 of a 3800sf house, with air being moved around by a 19" box fan. The house is well insulated, but we're talking about temps outside in the 20's or less. I get 8 hours or so of good heat on a typical load which would be about 6 splits cut to 16-18" length. I could load more, but the corresponding heat would be too much for too long.

Look for my other posts in the 2014/2015 VC Encore Owners Thread if you want to know more. Your barn is in Vermont - why not go visit VC's digs? That would be fun. The barn sounds great!!

 

[gfirob]

This is all very helpful advice. I am trying to figure out the heat-loss and r-factors as Frugal suggested, but it is a little beyond my pay-grade, I'm afraid. But I'm working at it. I think its a good idea. I'm waiting to hear back from the contractor on a couple of details to make the formulas work.

Regarding the esthetics, I think the Jotuls are the best looking cast-iron stoves, and most of the rest of the similar stoves are pretty derivative of the Norwegian design (or at least it looks that way to me). I think the Woodstock Fireview has a certain charm, though I can see how some would find it butt-ugly. The arabic arch in the front of stove makes it look a little as if it was designed to heat a Mosque, but it has a kind of victorian over-design which is sort of appealing. And I like the idea of the soapstone's radiant capacity and the cat option. But I can't make the delivery without a dealer work out. Too far, too heavy, too complicated. I really like the Morso classic stove with arch the best esthetically, but they just don't seem to have the firebox size.

Vermont Castings does show up on a lot of preferred lists, but there are many more negative comments about them.

I'm still of two minds about the cat-noncat question. Jotul seems to get pretty high marks for their clean burn system, but the catalytic system seems very sensible. Is there a consensus about that? I see that there are lots of people who still swear by the old air-tight stoves like the old Jotul 118, but my own chimney fire experiences make me embrace the newer stoves.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[Jags]

Is there a consensus about that?

Not even close.