Here come the EVs

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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
We (work) were talking about a F150 (or similar e pickup) in a couple years to test how one would work in our fleet. I am curious what happens to the range when a 5k lb trailer is hauled around. Its all the recharge convenience. Until it can be done anywhere the technology will be hamstrung. I can't have my techs, who often drive 250 miles in a day run out of charge.

I'm real interested in the maintenance schedule of an electric vehicle.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,665
South Puget Sound, WA
Right now you are correct but I guarantee more truck like SUVs are on their way
Yes, GM is developing a platform based on their ultium battery that can be adapted to either truck or passenger car. The Hummer SUV will be one of the first recipients with a really big 200 kW battery pack.
 

EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
727
SE North Carolina
I am curious what happens to the range when a 5k lb trailer is hauled around.
I think we know the qualitative answer. It’s going to scale just like your gas mileage but a bit better with regen breaking.
Look at the Transit EV. Range is like 130 miles. That’s probably a data/profit driven number.
Probably could make make an educated guess based in the mileage this Tesla 3 gets.
 

EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
I realize that. In a few years, this may change. Its all about how many charging stations are in an area.
 
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EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire

woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,360
SE PA
The original article was OK, but fluffy, with a quote from futurist Naan, who I am a little skeptical about at the moment.

As for the grid... well, the grid has struggled with flat and falling electricity demand for a looong time, and low prices and regulation. EVs will increase the amount of power that needs to be produced, and it is MUCH easier to build new projects in a growth environment than in a flat/declining one. And as mentioned, charging at night can use existing production, reducing daily variations. With internet linked 'demand' controls on the chargers, EVs can be used to stabilize higher renewable penetration grids, even without vehicle to grid stuff.
 

woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,360
SE PA
My neighbor is ending the lease on his second LEAF (he had a Gen 1 then a Gen 2), and talked to me this morning about choices. He always wanted a Tesla, but he is cheap enough to pinch a penny until Abe screams. I told him to test drive the Bolt (which he and everyone else thinks is tiny, while in fact it had the biggest interior of any car I ever owned). We shall see.

He is the master of shopping for the best deal. He got his Gen 1 LEAF for <$200/mo lease. ;lol
 

woodgeek

Minister of Fire
Jan 27, 2008
4,360
SE PA
And how quickly the battery pack can safely take a charge.
The issue here is cost. To pay for the $$$ fast charging equipment, fast chargers will always need to charge a steep premium per kWh. The current situation is like I have a gas pump in my garage that runs at $1/gallon, and the gas station on the highway pumps the same gas at $5/gallon. And everyone wonders why EVs get charged at home!
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,665
South Puget Sound, WA
The issue here is cost. To pay for the $$$ fast charging equipment, fast chargers will always need to charge a steep premium per kWh. The current situation is like I have a gas pump in my garage that runs at $1/gallon, and the gas station on the highway pumps the same gas at $5/gallon. And everyone wonders why EVs get charged at home!
Similar to when toll highways charge more at their exclusive rest stops. A captive audience will pay more if they need fuel.
 

NoGoodAtScreenNames

Feeling the Heat
Sep 16, 2015
398
Massachusetts
This looks really promising, and not just theoretical results in a lab. Seems they are ready for manufacturing in smaller batteries but there seems to be no concern about scaling up to an EV. Graphene Aluminum batteries check off a solution to most of the problems with lithium especially the range anxiety problem. If we can fully fast charge during a bathroom break at the rest stop with no degradation in battery capacity that would be huge.

 

ABMax24

Minister of Fire
This looks really promising, and not just theoretical results in a lab. Seems they are ready for manufacturing in smaller batteries but there seems to be no concern about scaling up to an EV. Graphene Aluminum batteries check off a solution to most of the problems with lithium especially the range anxiety problem. If we can fully fast charge during a bathroom break at the rest stop with no degradation in battery capacity that would be huge.

I'd like to see what the charge connector would look like to be able to dump in 100kwh in 10 minutes. At 480 volt DC on a single circuit that would be 1250 amps.

Don't stand in a puddle of water I guess? !!!
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,665
South Puget Sound, WA
This looks really promising, and not just theoretical results in a lab. Seems they are ready for manufacturing in smaller batteries but there seems to be no concern about scaling up to an EV. Graphene Aluminum batteries check off a solution to most of the problems with lithium especially the range anxiety problem. If we can fully fast charge during a bathroom break at the rest stop with no degradation in battery capacity that would be huge.

I have been following this company's developments. Field trials of samples are happening now. They could be a major improvement for laptops, phones, etc. Cars probably won't see them until 2025 if successful. Then it will be a game-changer. Whether they outperform developing solid-state batteries is TBD. Things are going to get interesting in a few years.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,848
Downeast Maine
Are high voltage lines more dangerous than countless bulk explosive storage containers across the country? Most houses have propane, oil, or natural gas hook ups, most with storage. Every gas station is just a holding tank for extremely dangerous liquid fuels, and just any person is allowed to pump it.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,665
South Puget Sound, WA
The very high charging rate potentials may never be seen in real-world applications except perhaps at fleet and long-haul transit hubs.
 
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EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
727
SE North Carolina
This is the new consumer grade at home charging station.

View attachment 279497
This is where the power wall or similar tech will come into play. How fast can you safely discharge? Probably faster than you can charge it? Fast charging that is not directly grid tied is really the only way. 200 amp service is the limiting factor without storage.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,848
Downeast Maine
This is where the power wall or similar tech will come into play. How fast can you safely discharge? Probably faster than you can charge it? Fast charging that is not directly grid tied is really the only way. 200 amp service is 200 amp service is the limiting factor without storage.
In a perfect world I would get a second meter from the power company with a 300+ amp 3 phase service for a workshop that would also charge our vehicles, but I know most residential situations would not support that. Although every garage in the country on a 3-400 amp 3 phase service panel would be welcomed by many wood workers.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
87,665
South Puget Sound, WA
This is where the power wall or similar tech will come into play. How fast can you safely discharge? Probably faster than you can charge it? Fast charging that is not directly grid tied is really the only way. 200 amp service is the limiting factor without storage.
Not many homeowners need a full range charge in a short time. With a 300 mile range, they will not fully discharge the battery for their commute, nor need a full charge for the next day. The average overnight charge will suffice for most people. It is when traveling that the fast charge is more valuable.
 
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EbS-P

Minister of Fire
Jan 19, 2019
727
SE North Carolina
In a perfect world I would get a second meter from the power company with a 300+ amp 3 phase service for a workshop that would also charge our vehicles, but I know most residential situations would not support that. Although every garage in the country on a 3-400 amp 3 phase service panel would be welcomed by many wood workers.
We have similar dreams.
 

SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
5,848
Downeast Maine
We have similar dreams.
All the best stuff calls for three phase power. Perhaps the EV revolution will finally be the push to get it into all houses like they do everywhere else in the world.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
24,177
central pa
All the best stuff calls for three phase power. Perhaps the EV revolution will finally be the push to get it into all houses like they do everywhere else in the world.
It better not. If it did I could no longer buy 3 phase equipment dirt cheap. Lol
 
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semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,009
SW Virginia
All the best stuff calls for three phase power. Perhaps the EV revolution will finally be the push to get it into all houses like they do everywhere else in the world.
As I understand it, the primary benefit of 3 phase power is that motors don't require starter circuits. What's the advantage of 3-phase power for EV charging other than an additional conductor?