Homemade air filters - Good indoor air quality, cheap

[Rusty18]

Umm are you all aware dogs can not survive outside? Well unless they have a heated kennel, heated water bowl, heated bed, and hot meals twice a day...I lost that argument two years ago. The “dog house” is nicer than some places I’ve lived.
On a serious note, there are some designer breeds (see mutts) out there that shed very little/not at all. Helps with the hair in the house greatly, they are usually smaller breeds so better for a smaller house too.

 

[SpaceBus]

Umm are you all aware dogs can not survive outside? Well unless they have a heated kennel, heated water bowl, heated bed, and hot meals twice a day...I lost that argument two years ago. The “dog house” is nicer than some places I’ve lived.
On a serious note, there are some designer breeds (see mutts) out there that shed very little/not at all. Helps with the hair in the house greatly, they are usually smaller breeds so better for a smaller house too.

I have livestock, none of my animals live without a shelter. If we got an outdoor dog, it would be a working livestock guardian dog that lives with our livestock, not just wild like a coyote My German shepherd would love to live outside and roam wild, but my alpacas don't like him and he isn't trained. Our indoor air quality is great, it just takes a lot of work when you have dander producing animals living indoors.

 

[Brian26]

Just saw that Lowes has the good Filtrete 1900 filters on sale. 20% off when you buy 4. I just went to my local store and stocked up.

 

[lml999]

I spent some time reading this thread as I'm concerned about IAQ. I've been burning for about ten years (two different houses) with an Enviro 1200 insert and lately, it seems, I get a good puff of smoke into the house every time I open the stove door. My wife has asthma and I'm concerned about the impact of IAQ on her and my health.

I run two HEPA air filters in the house, one in the room with the stove, and a second upstairs (traditional colonial). I also have an HRV that pulls air from the (far end of the) room with the stove and has a MERV 13 filter installed. It returns the air via an inlet near the stove.

There's a new toy running around, sucking the dirt. dust (and dog hair) from the carpets and hardwood floors.

I just ordered the $60 IAQ meter from Amazon, will play with it for a while.

A home built cube fan/filter will have very low WAF. Moving to Florida (from New England) is higher on her list.

So...here's the question...from a health standpoint, am I crazy to be burning?

Yes, I know, this is a provocative question, but in all other parts of my/our lives, we typically choose the healthy option...good diets, safe cars, exercise, etc.

 

[tlc1976]

It depends on what makes her asthma act up. I have asthma among many other things, and for me it’s crazy to have animals in the house, especially cats. No issues with burning firewood or pellets or even the cleaning procedure.

 

[Rusty18]

I spent some time reading this thread as I'm concerned about IAQ. I've been burning for about ten years (two different houses) with an Enviro 1200 insert and lately, it seems, I get a good puff of smoke into the house every time I open the stove door. My wife has asthma and I'm concerned about the impact of IAQ on her and my health.

I run two HEPA air filters in the house, one in the room with the stove, and a second upstairs (traditional colonial). I also have an HRV that pulls air from the (far end of the) room with the stove and has a MERV 13 filter installed. It returns the air via an inlet near the stove.

There's a new toy running around, sucking the dirt. dust (and dog hair) from the carpets and hardwood floors.

I just ordered the $60 IAQ meter from Amazon, will play with it for a while.

A home built cube fan/filter will have very low WAF. Moving to Florida (from New England) is higher on her list.

So...here's the question...from a health standpoint, am I crazy to be burning?

Yes, I know, this is a provocative question, but in all other parts of my/our lives, we typically choose the healthy option...good diets, safe cars, exercise, etc.

Yes. Now for the rest of the story...is wood burning a hobby or a necessity for you/your wife? Is the dog a necessity or a luxury/comfort? Everything in the life has a price, only the purchaser can determine if it’s worth it. (Please don’t assume price =$$) our 6 month old is battling a stuffy nose so I’m not burning just to help keep the IAQ as high as I can, (not saying it lowers IAQ that much but right now I’m not willing to add any unnecessary particulate to the air). However if I needed to fire up the wood stove to keep the house warm it’d be lit right now. Necessity vs hobby with a slight sprinkle of unmeasured risk. I think you’re on the right track with the air monitor, it will either put your mind at ease on the current IAQ or it will give you a base line and you can track down any offendering particulate emitters (stove or otherwise).
Good luck.

 

[lml999]

Yes. Now for the rest of the story...

Thanks...

Burning is a hobby. We live in a well-insulated, tight traditional colonial, heated by gas.

The dog is a cavachon, pictured to the left, with hair rather than fur, hypoallergenic. He has never been an issue for my wife's asthma, which only pops up in cold months.

I have split hardwood delivered and pay $200-350 a cord for the privilege. I occasionally have wood to split, but might represent 10-20% of my wood supply.

I don't think I'm saving a substantial amount of money by substituting wood for gas. Saving money would be nice, but isn't a driver. When we heated with oil, we took several thousand dollars a year off our heating bills with the stove.

It's a hobby I like a lot, and my wife likes the comfort of a warm fire. But if it's causing her asthma to flare up...

She believes that it's the cold weather that affects her asthma. IDK how much, if any, a potential IAQ issue is making things worse...

 

[woodgeek]

Thanks...

Burning is a hobby. We live in a well-insulated, tight traditional colonial, heated by gas.

The dog is a cavachon, pictured to the left, with hair rather than fur, hypoallergenic. He has never been an issue for my wife's asthma, which only pops up in cold months.

I have split hardwood delivered and pay $200-350 a cord for the privilege. I occasionally have wood to split, but might represent 10-20% of my wood supply.

I don't think I'm saving a substantial amount of money by substituting wood for gas. Saving money would be nice, but isn't a driver. When we heated with oil, we took several thousand dollars a year off our heating bills with the stove.

It's a hobby I like a lot, and my wife likes the comfort of a warm fire. But if it's causing her asthma to flare up...

She believes that it's the cold weather that affects her asthma. IDK how much, if any, a potential IAQ issue is making things worse...

It seems to me that she would have a sense of whether the burning is triggering her asthma, if you are only doing it sometimes.

Also, think about wood storage....firewood could contain mold spores or other allergens. IF so, you could get a closed wood box, store the wood in the garage, etc.

 

[Rusty18]

Something else to consider, humidity. If you aren’t measuring it indoors you might want to. I’ve got two humidifiers running, one is a wick type that will evaporate about 3-4 gallon a day on high and a hot mist one in the bedroom that will burn about 2 gallon when it’s clean (see hard water issues). When heating on electric they struggle to keep house 55-60 range, when I fire up the wood stove I add a pot with water to the top to help out. With the wood stove on I can’t keep the humidity above 50, below 50 we all have a noticeable deterioration in sleeping ie waking up with scratchy throat/coughing, irritated nose etc. The 6 month old is affected the most. In my case I don’t think I’m getting issues from smoke/particulate because it’s not cold enough to do a reload, just a packed full top down and let it go cold. We both forgot to fill the wick type last night before bed and it went dry, this morning was 46% in bedroom and 40% in the rest of the house.
I guess the short version is wood stove may be driving your humidity so low that’s cause part or all of her issues in the winter.

 

[tlc1976]

Do you usually open windows to get some fresh air when it’s not cold outside? It might be the lack of fresh air in a tightly sealed house.

Since gas is not totally prohibitive for you, you could try just gas for awhile, no fires, no wood…. and see if it helps her. That might help determine if it’s the fire/wood or not.

 

[lml999]

As mentioned above, we have an HRV and two HEPA air filters. *Sometimes* if the stove and chimney is cold I have to open a window briefly when starting up the stove.

So...I got the AIQ device, and it's showing that our air quality is NG. Moderate to heavy air pollution when the stove is running. It clears to good if the stove stays closed and burns down overnight. The device is on the second floor in our bedroom, pretty far away from the stove.

I definitely have an issue...every time I open the stove door (Enviro Kodiak 1200 insert), I get a stream of smoke out. Doesn't matter whether the fire is new or well established.

I think I have a pretty significant draft problem, will not be using the stove until my local chimney sweep (who installed the stove a couple of years ago) can take a look. I called today...expect that they will be here by early/mid week.

I expect that I will get yelled at for not burning fully seasoned wood, but even seasoned wood is smoking up the room. Perhaps it might be more complicated than that... I will report back.

 

[Rusty18]

well that sucks but at least you have confirmed there is a problem, have a means with which to measure progress on the issue, and are taking steps to fix the problem.

 

[Rusty18]

Sounds like you have a draft issue for sure, hopefully a good chimney cleaning will get you back in business.

 

[lml999]

Agreed. Curious to see the IAQ measurement after the flue is cleaned, or whatever else needs to be done...

Also, curious to take the IAQ meter into my woodworking shop, where I run a dust collector and two midsize WEN filtration systems.

 

[lml999]

This is pre-pub. I have a lot of documentation to do after I collect a bale of data. I wasn't expecting to post here for another 6-8 weeks, but check this out.

Thanks again for your work and the mention of this IAQ meter. I got one earlier this week and it seems to be working quite well. I was surprised at how compact it is!

 

[Rusty18]

The box took up too much space and made too much noise to be left in the middle of the living room but it did make a noticeable difference in the dust level. Long story short I “made” the filter fit in the hvac system right above the hog hair filter (I guess those were put in to keep the odd Racoon from getting sucked into the coils cause they sure ain’t stopping anything else). That’s about 3 weeks worth of run time. Soon as I get a free minute I’m getting out the tin snips and making a tray to hold a 20-20-2 and doing away with the old filter.
The sunbeam through the window particulate monitor also supports the reduction in dust floating about too.

No pets inside but they do keep the porch dirty, barn shoes/boots get left in the garage so not making a bunch of dust, just haven’t filtered any out since we moved in in ‘18.

 

[lml999]

Something else to consider, humidity.

Yea, humidity. Haven't been burning for a couple of days, have a cleanout scheduled for Monday.

In the meantime, my IAQ meter really doesn't like my Air-O-Swiss ultrasonic humidifier. I've cleaned it, started using filtered water, and while it's running, the IAQ reports unhealthy air. The humidifer is on the second floor landing, blowing over the first floor entrance hallway. The IAQ meter is in our bedroom, 15' from the humidifier.

Not long after the humidifer runs dry and stops, the IAQ readouts drop nicely. So I don't know whether it's something in the filtered well water or the moisture in the air itself that's driving up the IAQ readings.

...just to complicate matters, right?

 

[woodgeek]

Yea, humidity. Haven't been burning for a couple of days, have a cleanout scheduled for Monday.

In the meantime, my IAQ meter really doesn't like my Air-O-Swiss ultrasonic humidifier. I've cleaned it, started using filtered water, and while it's running, the IAQ reports unhealthy air. The humidifer is on the second floor landing, blowing over the first floor entrance hallway. The IAQ meter is in our bedroom, 15' from the humidifier.

Not long after the humidifer runs dry and stops, the IAQ readouts drop nicely. So I don't know whether it's something in the filtered well water or the moisture in the air itself that's driving up the IAQ readings.

...just to complicate matters, right?

I believe it. I am not a fan of those at all.

The ultrasonic formed droplets are of mineral laden water, which after evaporation makes a 'white dust' mineral microparticle, which an IAQ meter will certainly detect. After using such humidifiers in my bedroom for a few years, I discovered I had become sensitized to the dust, and got nasty sinusitis reliably when we used it. I switched to a wick based evaporative unit (which I keep clean with a bacteriocide) and my problem went away completely.

When I experimented with an oil diffuser, I ran distilled water for this reason...but not practical for home humidification.

 

[Rusty18]

Well shoot, I’ve got a hot mist one in the bedroom (not ultrasonic) that I have to clean weekly (not so soft soft water). You’ve got me wondering if that may be part of my problem now!

 

[lml999]

Well shoot, I’ve got a hot mist one in the bedroom (not ultrasonic) that I have to clean weekly (not so soft soft water). You’ve got me wondering if that may be part of my problem now!

Yes, you might be quite surprised. I haven't run the humidifer in 24 hours and the current reading is 0 ppm. 24 hours ago it was reading in the red, quite literally.

 

[NorMi]

I never had a problem with evaporating water on the stove, hot mist, wick style, or now the Venta style I just got, but the ultrasonic when used with tap water was a IAQ disaster!

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, you might be quite surprised. I haven't run the humidifer in 24 hours and the current reading is 0 ppm. 24 hours ago it was reading in the red, quite literally.

But you use an ultrasonic one. This shoots small droplets into the air, which includes the minerals. After the water of the droplets evaporates, the mineral dust remains aloft.

The hot mist one of Rusty instead evaporates the water (I think), leaving the minerals behind, and should be much cleaner for the air.

Edit: Consistent with NorMi's observation.

 

[Rusty18]

But you use an ultrasonic one. This shoots small droplets into the air, which includes the minerals. After the water of the droplets evaporates, the mineral dust remains aloft.

The hot mist one of Rusty instead evaporates the water (I think), leaving the minerals behind, and should be much cleaner for the air.

Edit: Consistent with NorMi's observation.

Yes, it has a heating element that boils the water. Have to clean out a golf ball size chunk of minerals about once a week.
Just wondering if the boiling action is not sending some of the mineral laden water air borne similar, but to a much lesser degree, to the ultrasonic. Guess I need to take my own advice and get something to measure IAQ.

 

[peakbagger]

Years ago,I used to have to babysit a computer room HVAC system. The temp and humidity had to be controlled pretty carefully. The humidifier was a pan with an automatic level control with a timed bottom drain. There was infrared heater over the pan that turned on to give off water vapor into the air stream. It worked pretty well; the auto drain kept the minerals from precipitating into the pan. The trade off was those infrared coils were not free to run.

 

[Poindexter]

So data. Yay!! I did get hooked into a group of kids at USC researching air quality and... nothing.

Briefly, running 3 MERV13s on a 20" box fan as pictured on page one I, like ABMax, routinely see 5-6-7 mcg/ cubic meter for raw PM2.5 count- in the stove room while my wood is running, and 12-15 mcg/m3 in stove room while cooking in the kitchen.

New problem this week, wildfire smoke. My raw outdoor PM2.5 count this morning was 189, a few minutes ago it hit 482 mcg/m3, highest reading I have ever seen. The highest one I remember before today was a raw PM2.5 count of 364 mcg/m3 last summer, also during wildfire season.