Hook 20lb bottle to RV8310D

[Moxified]

Hello, I have a DVS-36RF-2 gas fireplace with an RV8310D gas valve setup for LP. I bought the house 3 years ago and had the LP company hook it up. We used about a quarter of a tank in 3 years and they were starting to hit us with ridiculous rental fees so I had them remove the tank in a fit of anger.

I like the idea of having the fireplace as an emergency heat source and we obviously aren't going to take it out as it would make a mess. I would like to hook it to a 20lb grill bottle for the one off occasion where we need/want it. I'm fully aware the tank will only last <20 hours and could struggle on super cold days due to lack of flash volume. I would also consider 2 tanks in tandem. Even with the big tank, we shut the shutoff and relit the pilot when we wanted to use the fireplace.

I want to be safe first and foremost. The black iron lines already run outside of the house and haven't been messed with. I assume that I need some form of regulator at the tank but I'm having a hard time figuring that out and honestly don't want to risk getting it wrong. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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[Handsonautotech]

Ypu can pick up an adaptor and regulator at home depot in the grille section. Then you can pick up a 100lb bottle also at lowes now or at a local propane dealer. Or a 30lb.

 

[Moxified]

Thanks, I guess that was my point of clarification. I'm certain I can take care of the adapting. It's more the regulator I'm unsure of. A standard round grill style regulator is what I'm looking for even in the case of a fireplace?

Something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Weber-QCC1-30-in-Hose-and-Regulator-Kit-7627/204846242

As for the bigger tanks, I thought about the 100lb'ers but dragging them through 4' of snow will stink. At 130lbs myself, I suspect they would out weigh me when full.

 

[Handsonautotech]

Thanks, I guess that was my point of clarification. I'm certain I can take care of the adapting. It's more the regulator I'm unsure of. A standard round grill style regulator is what I'm looking for even in the case of a fireplace?

Something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Weber-QCC1-30-in-Hose-and-Regulator-Kit-7627/204846242

As for the bigger tanks, I thought about the 100lb'ers but dragging them through 4' of snow will stink. At 130lbs myself, I suspect they would out weigh me when full.

Yeah I think we use a 30lb for our porch heater and it holds up pretty well for parties and such.

A simple grille regulator should do the job I think most lp devices use a standard for the pressure. Try to protect the regulator from water damage.

 

[Heatsource]

you'd get 20 hours out of 20 gallons if it burned over 90,000 btus an hour.
at 30,000 btu's you'll get 3 hours of run time per gallon of gas
fyi

 

[Moxified]

you'd get 20 hours out of 20 gallons if it burned over 90,000 btus an hour.
at 30,000 btu's you'll get 3 hours of run time per gallon of gas
fyi

Yes, at lowest (17,500 btu) I would get around 104 hours if my math is correct. We almost never ran it higher than "1" out of "6". At "1" it make the whole first floor hot on a cold day. At highest (25,000) that's still 72 hours.

That's an average of 7 hours a week for 3 months. We maybe ran it 2 hours every other week during Dec-Feb. I have 3 20 lb ers I keep in the shed. That will easily cover a winter.

Thanks for your help. Any thoughts on how to protect the regulator from the weather? I suppose I could build a little vented shelter.

 

[Handsonautotech]

Thanks for your help. Any thoughts on how to protect the regulator from the weather? I suppose I could build a little vented shelter.

There is a vent on it. Aim the vent down so water and snow do not get in should do the trick. A small box for bottle and regulator would make them safe from the shovel they will be up against when it comes time to drag the bottles through that snow you mentioned earlier.

If three 20 lbs get you through you could get a friend to help you line up a 100lb and not have to mess with it all season. Welding gas supply stores will sometimes deliver it for you and only ask for a one time reasonable deposit for the bottle.

 

[Moxified]

OK, so I purchased a regulator with hose on Amazon: (broken link removed to https://amzn.com/B00CHV8TV2)

The options at HD were much more expensive and had like 1' long hoses.

I received it and am having a hard time finding the proper adapters. The package says: "Connecting outlet: 5/8" UNF". The existing line on the side of my house is 1/2" male flare. I'm not finding anything in 5/8" pipe thread at the store. I purchased a 1/2" female flare to 3/8" MIP prior to receiving the hose hoping it would be right. The 3/8" looks to be the right size but doesn't thread.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Handsonautotech]

Connecting different pipes is always a pain in the butt. What I usually do is take the end I need to connect to and the end I have and go to HD and dig until I can put the two together. The other thing you could do is find a hose barb adapter for the side you can not mess with and then just cut the hose coming out of your new regulator and attach it to the barb with a hose clamp.

So 1/2" Female flare to hose barb would work. After all the hose on what you bought is probably held on with a crimp right? for long term use you might cut both crimps off and replace with a double hose clamp set up, then tighten the clamps twice a year during maintenance.

 

[Handsonautotech]

Yes, at lowest (17,500 btu) I would get around 104 hours if my math is correct. We almost never ran it higher than "1" out of "6". At "1" it make the whole first floor hot on a cold day. At highest (25,000) that's still 72 hours.

That's an average of 7 hours a week for 3 months. We maybe ran it 2 hours every other week during Dec-Feb. I have 3 20 lb ers I keep in the shed. That will easily cover a winter.

Thanks for your help. Any thoughts on how to protect the regulator from the weather? I suppose I could build a little vented shelter.

Do not confuse lbs of propane with gallons of propane when doing your math. A 20lb bottle holds about 5 gallons if filled correctly ( bled out and such). If the unit is 100% efficient you should get 25 hours of run time per bottle at the lowest setting or 75 hours for your three bottles at the lowest setting. I doubt it is 100% efficient.

You even seem to acknowledge this as in your OP you state you know you will get <20 hours per bottle. So I am trying to figure out where you came up with this new 104 hour number? At best with the three bottles you will get about 60 hours before all 3 are used up.

I think this makes more sense too when looking at your original post and the mention of your old tank. I would assume you had a 1000 gallon propane tank before. You used 1/4 of that in 3 years, or 250 gallons, which is about 83 and 1/3 gallons per year which would make sense with your 17.5BTU calculation and your estimated run time. 80 gallons = 320lbs = 16 x 20lb bottles.

I would install a shut off valve between the regulator and the bottle also so you do not lose all the gas in the line when you swap bottles.

 

[FanMan]

That grill regulator you purchased is NOT legal for any permanently installed gas appliance in your home. For such an installation, a two stage regulator is required. Rubber hose isn't legal, either. Now yes, it will work, and I briefly tested my own installation with such a setup... but if anything bad happens your insurance likely won't cover you.

 

[Handsonautotech]

That grill regulator you purchased is NOT legal for any permanently installed gas appliance in your home. For such an installation, a two stage regulator is required. Rubber hose isn't legal, either. Now yes, it will work, and I briefly tested my own installation with such a setup... but if anything bad happens your insurance likely won't cover you.

Yeah that too, sorry. I just assumed you did not care since you were lookkng for advice on rigging up small bottles to your fireplace. The way your doing it now is the way I have seen folks do it, but yeah you should not be doing this.

 

[Moxified]

Thanks... words cannot describe how irritated I am right now. If you read my first post it clearly states: I want to be safe first and foremost.

Why on earth would I want to do something illegal and or unsafe. Now I have wasted money on a regulator I can't use and will cost me half to return to amazon.

Do me a solid favor and recommend the PROPER method to do this. If there is none without calling the propane company to screw me on tank charges...state so and I'll put a plastic sheet over the darn thing and move on with life.

 

[Z33]

Thanks... words cannot describe how irritated I am right now. If you read my first post it clearly states: I want to be safe first and foremost.

Why on earth would I want to do something illegal and or unsafe. Now I have wasted money on a regulator I can't use and will cost me half to return to amazon.

Do me a solid favor and recommend the PROPER method to do this. If there is none without calling the propane company to screw me on tank charges...state so and I'll put a plastic sheet over the darn thing and move on with life.

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine!


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQT5H2/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Depending on the connection type one of these should do it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HRS7R2/?tag=hearthamazon-20

Make sure you have a regulator in line.

 

[Moxified]

Assuming you read the thread and how my frustration came about, I suspect most people would sympathize with my outburst.

I honestly don't mean to be rude or unappreciative of assistance. I just was clear in the beginning I wanted to do this the safe way but wanted to save money over the outrageous costs levied by my tank fees due to low consumption. If the answer was, you can't. So be it. Instead it was recommended that a grill regulator/hose be used up and until I buy it and then somebody pipes up to point out that it's not safe or legal. If that had been stated early on prior to buying it, I would have been the ray of sunshine you are looking for.

So those have connecting to the tank covered, what about this fancy dual stage regulator? Something like this?

https://amzn.com/B0024E6TX2

Why is a two stage required. Also, why isn't rubber acceptable? dryrot fears?

 

[Handsonautotech]

Assuming you read the thread and how my frustration came about, I suspect most people would sympathize with my outburst.

I honestly don't mean to be rude or unappreciative of assistance. I just was clear in the beginning I wanted to do this the safe way but wanted to save money over the outrageous costs levied by my tank fees due to low consumption. If the answer was, you can't. So be it. Instead it was recommended that a grill regulator/hose be used up and until I buy it and then somebody pipes up to point out that it's not safe or legal. If that had been stated early on prior to buying it, I would have been the ray of sunshine you are looking for.

So those have connecting to the tank covered, what about this fancy dual stage regulator? Something like this?

https://amzn.com/B0024E6TX2

Why is a two stage required. Also, why isn't rubber acceptable? dryrot fears?

http://www.tarantin.com/propane-101/what-regulator-do-i-need

Integral Twin Stage


Quote from website:

Integral twin-stage regulators are more commonly used and are more sensible for most installations with a small BTU load inside… BUT in a situation where there is an extreme distance between the tank and house or appliance, a two stage regulator system is often the best option.


Two stage regulators are for high pressure tanks like the one the company took away.

Sorry I missed the part where you want to be safe. You should call your insurance company. They can guide you on the requirements to do this the right way. Then you should hire a licensed and insured contractor to complete the work. You should let him supply all the parts so any liability will reside with him and his company. You should have a fireplace expert come and inspect the propane fireplace for any potential problems. You should contact your local county officials to see if you need a permit for this project. You should make sure your CO2 alarm and your fire detectors are functioning properly. This is the only way you can be 100% sure of your safety.

If you still want to try to tackle the job yourself there is no way anyone on this site can ensure your safety in such a project. How will we know if you complete leak tests properly, if the fireplace does not need maintenance? If you know how to even install all this right? How do we know if you even know which way is up on a propane bottle? Sorry, but no one on this site can ensure your safety and anyone who says they can is assuming a level of liability that could result in litigation.

I should also add that I am a random person on the internet and you should take any and all of my advice with the same amount of security that you would take from some stranger walking down the street.

 

[FanMan]

Two stage regulators are for high pressure tanks like the one the company took away.

That is not correct. All propane tanks are the same pressure, the vapor pressure of liquid propane (20-110 psi depending on temperature). The regulator reduces it to the standard 11"WC required by most propane appliances. Two stage regulators are generally used when the lines are long; by using a first stage regulator to reduce it to 10 psi the lines don't have to be as large; then the secondary regulator cuts it further down to the 11"WC required by the appliance.

"Integral" two stage regulators give better control of outlet pressure as tank pressure varies than do single stage regulators, which may only be used for outdoor devices. If the gas pressure on your barbecue grill fluctuates, big deal; if the gas pressure on your indoor fireplace fluctuates, bad things could happen; thus single stage regulators aren't legal for indoor devices. Rubber hoses are a no-no because not only do they dry out and eventually leak, but they're not fireproof.

 

[Moxified]

Yes, this whole thread is apparently full of mis-information. I wish I could delete it. I have abandoned this project completely anyway.