House Fire Leads to New Bathroom and New Insert!

[Stihl_WoodBandit]

Hello everyone,
I'll start by telling you a bit about my last few weeks...
My wife and I bought our first house this past June and have been anxious to have some fires in the open interior masonry fireplace. The house was built in 1964, it's a ranch with walkout basement-wash the basement and first floor have en fireplaces and I'm in west central Ohio. The previous (first/only) owners had never used the upstairs fireplace situated in the living room-evident because of virgin orange 12x12 flue tile and clean firebrick in fireplace. We have had maybe two dozen fires in the past few months and all seemed to be well....
The evening of Black Friday, we had fire, let it die down and went to bed around 9:30. A few hours later at 1:45am, I awoke to smoke! I got my wife and two young boys up, got them out of the house and I was looking for my cell to call 911 when (as I began to wake up) I realized that the damper was open, there was a cold bed of coals under the grate and nothing jumped out of the Fireplace to start a fire. There was only smoke and then I realized it was coming from the bathroom which is behind the masonry chimney. Long story short, the 1964 builder had properly left a 3" air space between the concrete block chimney and the wood studs that made up the bathroom wall, the insulated it with fiberglass batts but they didn't block off the top to keep the blown in cellulose insulation in the attic from falling down in that 3" gap.

So the 20 or so fires we had slowly dried out the insulation to a point where it just "combusted". Fire investigators said they've seen it with wood being against chimneys but never insulation and not 50 years later. The main thing is all 4 of us got out safely, and the fire fighters didn't unleash their 2" hoses on our house. It did do about $15k worth of damage though.

While we rebuild the bathroom, we are starting to look at inserts. We have 3 stove shops within an hours drive and we have only visited one so far but their Vermont Castings "Montpelier" model we really like. It had a sticker price of $2400 plus trim. It put out good heat and looked nice, but it only had a 1.5cf firebox. I'm going to put a 6" ss liner in the chimney to attach to our new insert but can't seem to find 'exactly' what I'm looking for on here. I want something with a blower, decent size firebox, and has big glass so we can enjoy the flames while sitting on the couch.

It has to be an insert and I can't spend more than $3k. We don't like the enamel finish and prefer black. What brands/models do you guys recommend looking at?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[begreen]

Good to hear that the fire was caught in time and everyone is ok. What are your fireplace full dimensions top and bottom, back and front including depth? How large an area do you want to heat and how open is this area to the rest of the house? Also, how tall is the chimney from the fireplace opening?

 

[Grisu]

For a classic look I would check out:
Pacific Energy T5 Alderlea
Hampton HI300
Jotul C450
Enviro 1700 Boston

How much of an area do you want to heat?

 

[Stihl_WoodBandit]

Good to hear that the fire was caught in time and everyone is ok. What are your fireplace full dimensions top and bottom, back and front including depth? How large an area do you want to heat and how open is this area to the rest of the house? Also, how tall is the chimney from the fireplace opening?

Important details I overlooked...
The entire upstairs of the ranch house is 1500sf, if we could comfortably heat 1/3rd of that then I'd be happy. The open living room/dining room is kind of central to the other rooms. Front Dimensions are 34" wide X 25" high X 26" deep while the back measures 28" wide X 19" high. Chimney is 15' from firebox floor to top of tiles.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like a pretty generously sized fireplace. Grisu has made some good suggestions to look at.

 

[Grisu]

The inserts I listed are between 2 and 2.5 cu ft. They should all be able to heat 1500 sqft when you have reasonable insulation and dry wood (less than 20% moisture). A centrally located fireplace should make heat distribution easier. One problem could be that your chimney is a bit short. Take a look at the PE T5. It has the same firebox as the Super which drafts well on a shorter chimney.

 

[RAVinMetrowest]

No smoke alarms?

 

[Stihl_WoodBandit]

No smoke alarms?

Don't get me started...one was near the bathroom but it didn't sound until 10 minutes after I woke up. Now we have 1 in every room of the house!

 

[Grisu]

A CO-alarm would have been a good complement and may have sounded earlier with a slow, smoldering fire.

 

[RAVinMetrowest]

I'd replace the old ones. I had one that went off every time I ironed. New technology solved that problem.

 

[Stihl_WoodBandit]

The inserts I listed are between 2 and 2.5 cu ft. They should all be able to heat 1500 sqft when you have reasonable insulation and dry wood (less than 20% moisture). A centrally located fireplace should make heat distribution easier. One problem could be that your chimney is a bit short. Take a look at the PE T5. It has the same firebox as the Super which drafts well on a shorter chimney.

Thanks and I am on their websites now. I have very good insulation and C/S/S my wood, uncovered in summer and covered up the rest of time. Still need to get moisture meter but it has at least 12 months c/s/s under its belt.

 

[Stihl_WoodBandit]

A CO-alarm would have been a good complement and may have sounded earlier with a slow, smoldering fire.

We had one, with new batteries on the hallway wall opposite the bathroom. All old SD's were trashed and we now we have 11 new ones and 2 CO's.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah it is estimated that you have something like 18 to 20 seconds to get out of the house after the things alarm.

Of course burn one piece of toast and...

 

[firefighterjake]

We had one, with new batteries on the hallway wall opposite the bathroom. All old FE's were trashed and we now we have 11 new ones and 2 CO's.

Hopefully a combination of ionization and photo-electric smoke detectors. Each type detects the different types of smoke at different rates. Lots of folks don't realize that all smoke is not the same. The smoke from a smoldering fire such as wood charring or a cigarette in a couch cushion is different from the smoke produced by a fast, flaming fire such as a grease fire. This is why a house can appear to have a fair amount of smoke and no detectors are going off ... experts say eventually the smoke will reach a density where either type will activate the alarm.

Most folks, myself included, recommend folks have some of both types or combination ion/pe detectors in their home for the best and earliest warning.

As mentioned detectors also need to be replaced ... every ten years. Studies have shown that smoke detector sensors are pretty reliable up to ten years ... after that they begin to degrade or fail at unacceptable rates. Simply depressing the test button unfortunately only tests that the detector has power and the audible alarm works.

Of course even a new, super high winder smoke detector is nothing more than ceiling art if it doesn't have a battery, electric power or a combination of power sources. Studies have shown the number reason for smoke detectors not sounding is because the battery is dead or even more commonly found are disabled smoke detectors ... one reason why I like detectors with the push to silence button ... a feature that will typically silence a detector for five minutes when you know the reason for activation is under control ... such as burned toast, steam from your hot shower, etc.

Hehheh ... can you tell that fire safety education is what I do for a living?

 

[bholler]

Another example of why you need to insulate all those liners glad you guys were all ok.

 

[Stihl_WoodBandit]

Hopefully a combination of ionization and photo-electric smoke detectors.

As mentioned detectors also need to be replaced ... every ten years.

Hehheh ... can you tell that fire safety education is what I do for a living?

Very good info Jake, we now have all new detectors and I believe they were those two types but I will check. I was not aware of the 10 year rule so I'm gonna write the replacement date inside with a black Sharpie so when we change batteries we are reminded of its life span.